Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

[FightingFit]

I had a Lumbar Discectomy when I was 15. I have full range of movement now but would put my back out maybe two or three times a year. Since I started weight lifting and general exercise I have found my back strength and support to be greatly improved. I love squats and deadlifts for the all-round strength building they are giving me but, I’m wondering is there a max limit I might hit or should not go beyond due to the discectomy, or will my spinal support continue to increase along with the strength gains in the surrounding muscles? I’m still low down on the weight numbers, 5x5 with 190lbs for squat and 5x5 with 220lbs for deadlift, and my back still feels fine. Doc says keep going till it starts to hurt, Just worried I might hit an unnatural limit due to the disc issue.
Anyone have any experience with this?

 

[skinney_7]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

ya i had a buddy in college who was born without the discs in his lower back, none above or below his L5, not sure if they were fused or just vert on vert... he squated heavy with me, i was pushing out quite a bit more but he only weighed about 175 and was squatin 405 for 10 reps.
personally i have herniated two discs in my lower back and broke cartilage in my lower back as well, playing college baseball and football took its tole, but did proper rehab, and sure as hell didn't let the doc do surgery, i healed, and was front squating over 500lbs for reps, it'll go out once in a while but work through it for a couple weeks... i feel you guys who drop to your knees when you sneeze!!! also look at some inversion boots, i've been using mine on the bar above my squat rack for about 5 years now, they are worth it...
good luck with you back buddy, i know how it feels.

 

[JJones75]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

thats a question only you can answer , personaly i'd take it slow and steady , don't forget to check your ego at the door one day and try to deadlift for a max.

you can train the muscle and work it just as effectivly by feeling the proper range of motion and using steady controled movements. no since is trying to push yourself and risk another injury that will only set you back.

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FightingFit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a Lumbar Discectomy when I was 15. I have full range of movement now but would put my back out maybe two or three times a year. Since I started weight lifting and general exercise I have found my back strength and support to be greatly improved. I love squats and deadlifts for the all-round strength building they are giving me but, I’m wondering is there a max limit I might hit or should not go beyond due to the discectomy, or will my spinal support continue to increase along with the strength gains in the surrounding muscles? I’m still low down on the weight numbers, 5x5 with 190lbs for squat and 5x5 with 220lbs for deadlift, and my back still feels fine. Doc says keep going till it starts to hurt, Just worried I might hit an unnatural limit due to the disc issue.
Anyone have any experience with this? </div></div>

Lifts sound great for that type of injury. I'd seek out a doctor with familiarity in the sports/athletics fields of study that isn't buying into the anti-squats propoganda they dole out in a number of medical schools

A good PT probably could help advise as well.

Having a number of serious injuries/surgeries myself I have to ask myself this same question, and I've found what I feel to be a happy medium of pushing it hard enough to move up weight, but not so hard I fail at form.


Check out Pavel's "Relax into stretching" and get your flexibility in order for a proficient weightlifter so that you're not getting any "buttwink" while squatting and you're able to maintain form correctly.

If done right a high bar squat shouldn't really do much more than compress your lumbar, and if you're keeping a big chest, shoulders cocked back and you're taking a deep breath before committing to the squat your lungs should inflate enough to cushion and protect your spine.

This is all advice given to me by a professional oly weightlifting coach. If you want to post vids on youtube and talk about form at all I'd be more than happy to offer my own humble critiques or opinions, and I'm sure a number of other more experienced lifters here would be more than happy to do the same.

Good on you for pushing yourself man hi5.

 

[fx77]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

Your lifting activity should be limited by pain. What U do works 4 U, but is not generally recommended for discectomy patients.
U are the best judge...

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fx77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your lifting activity should be limited by pain. What U do works 4 U, but is not generally recommended for discectomy patients.
U are the best judge... </div></div>

Personally I would go so far as to say with these tyep of injuries if you're experiencing pain it's already to late.

Everything goes at once type of thing.

I'm thinking that as soon as you get to a weight you can't comfortably maintain proper form with you should deload and put some volume and time in at 70-80% and go back when you feel stronger and see if you pass.

 

[FightingFit]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

Living with this type of injury for the last 15 years has made me very “back conscious”, as you can imagine and that was the main concern on my mind when I started a full weights program. I started in slow and steady and I’ve seen nothing but increased strength and stability in my back so far. Problem is lifting heavier has become addictive and I have to keep myself from piling on weight after the 5x5 just to see how far I can push the 3 reps load. Like COURAGEWOLF said, it will be all go until a no go and then it’s too late. Anyway, I’m a big boy now so I’ll just have to keep the ego in check and stay slow and steady until I reach a wall and then grow a pair to push beyond it.
Just wondering how far someone else with this injury has pushed it with max weight, but I suppose JJones75 is right, I’ll have to find that out for myself.

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FightingFit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Living with this type of injury for the last 15 years has made me very “back conscious”, as you can imagine and that was the main concern on my mind when I started a full weights program. I started in slow and steady and I’ve seen nothing but increased strength and stability in my back so far. Problem is lifting heavier has become addictive and I have to keep myself from piling on weight after the 5x5 just to see how far I can push the 3 reps load. Like COURAGEWOLF said, it will be all go until a no go and then it’s too late. Anyway, I’m a big boy now so I’ll just have to keep the ego in check and stay slow and steady until I reach a wall and then grow a pair to push beyond it.
Just wondering how far someone else with this injury has pushed it with max weight, but I suppose JJones75 is right, I’ll have to find that out for myself.
</div></div>

My biggest problem has largely been knowing when to deload and focus on form again. If you can put the ego aside you'll definitely be succesful.

 

[FightingFit]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

Would using a belt to support the lower back handicap the muscles in that area and prevent them from getting the most out of the Squat/Deadlift?

 

[marshallwk]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

Yes it will. However a helpfull technique is to put on the weightbelt and not cinch it all the way down. This will actually help you to remember to contract your ab's against the weight belt, which is what you should be doing anyways. That is a crucial portion of the lift that many forget.

 

[JJones75]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

if you have a back injury i would not do squats or deadlifts to work that area , i would use lighter weight that can more easly be controled.

I always use a belt for squating and deadlifting , i squat to work my legs and i deadlift to work my back and hamstrings. I do upper torso extensions in a roman situp chair to focus on my lower lumbar back area.

to focus on your quads try doing a half squat with your feet slightly closer together , the outsides of your feet almost as wide as your shoulders and only squat down about half way to paralell then back up , but donot lock out at the top. Take 2-3 seconds to go down them a 1 sec to come back up , go low and controled so you don't damages your knees from hitting the breaks with the weight going to fast.

try to keep constant stress on the quad

 

[FightingFit]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

For the squat I’ve been going down slow and as low as possible, pausing for a second or two and then pushing back up as fast as I can. When I’m doing the last set of five I find I’m actually pulling down on the bar with my arms to gain the leverage to stand up, if that makes sense. I do feel it in the knees the next day after this but it seems to work everything, I think. Like I said, I’m fairly new to this but the day after the squats my back and legs feel rock solid. I’m definitely more wary about the deadlift than the squat for obvious reasons.

 

[JJones75]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

I always squat all the way to the bottom , as i actualy get less knee pain this way rather than stopping at 90 deg but stopping short doesn't cause me any pain and has realy allowed me to bring out my sweep (outer quad) and not pre fatigue my glutes and hams.

This year rather than change over to lighter weights and increased reps during my contest prep im gonna stick with heavy weights only increasing my reps slightly , after talking waith a couple pros that Chris Aceto has prepped they all said that their were much fuller and harder.

So i'll be squating up till the week before the show rather than doing miles of lunges and leg extensions only.

 

[SingleShot85]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

I have sent many patients out for Discetomies and had them return for rehab. Every one is different. Some patients respond well and can lift a car and other blow the disc lifting 20lbs off the floor.

You present differently than most because your initial injury was when you were actively growing and these past 15 years you have been "safe".

I would caution against squats/deadlift mainly because potential risk vs reward is too great. You can strengthen you legs and back using other lifts w/ potentially less opportunity for damage to your back.

You can PM me for help if you'd like.

KT D.C.

 

[clintb]

Re: Max limit for squat and deadlift due to Discectomy

risk vs reward.......back injuries suck and are long to heal if ever