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Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scoutsout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking in to getting a Meplat trimmer, which is one of the only things left that I don't do. So , I guess my question is are there noticeable differences by doing this? </div></div>
To me...no (Cant shoot the difference)
to some.....yes (they can).
IS it worth it to buy a PII....? To me yes.....to many.....???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scoutsout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking in to getting a Meplat trimmer, which is one of the only things left that I don't do. So , I guess my question is are there noticeable differences by doing this? </div></div>
To me...no (Cant shoot the difference)
to some.....yes (they can).
IS it worth it to buy a PII....? To me yes.....to many.....???
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
I assume you are also getting a tipping die?
I assume you are also getting a tipping die?
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
GET IT! You will have beautiful bullets.
GET IT! You will have beautiful bullets.
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
Scout,
Yes, it works, but in only conjunction with sorting by ogive length. Pointing afterwards may have an effect on group size; positive or negative, and the same holds true if you point before trimming.
Cut,
I never sort by weight, and the amount of material removed is 0.1 grain or less if done correctly. I usually remove 0.010-0.020 maximum. I do weigh about 50 bullets out of a batch of 500 or 1k to make sure the batch doesn't have large variations.
And I usually shoot well enough to tell the difference.
HTH,
DocB
Scout,
Yes, it works, but in only conjunction with sorting by ogive length. Pointing afterwards may have an effect on group size; positive or negative, and the same holds true if you point before trimming.
Cut,
I never sort by weight, and the amount of material removed is 0.1 grain or less if done correctly. I usually remove 0.010-0.020 maximum. I do weigh about 50 bullets out of a batch of 500 or 1k to make sure the batch doesn't have large variations.
And I usually shoot well enough to tell the difference.
HTH,
DocB
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
I find Amax's fly just fine, and there cheaper than any bullet that might require Meplat trimming, it's also my understanding that trimming decreases BC, and pointing trimmed pills increases the BC back to there former state, or almost, I said this before and I'll say it again, less time reloading equals more time shooting.
I find Amax's fly just fine, and there cheaper than any bullet that might require Meplat trimming, it's also my understanding that trimming decreases BC, and pointing trimmed pills increases the BC back to there former state, or almost, I said this before and I'll say it again, less time reloading equals more time shooting.
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
I didn't care for the a-max they had bad weight variations and length variations because of the ballistic tip being inconsistent length; which In turn gave inconsistent seating. They shot ok for me my gun just doesn't like them as much as the Sierra or Nosler HPBT. I'll use the BT for hunting that's it!
I didn't care for the a-max they had bad weight variations and length variations because of the ballistic tip being inconsistent length; which In turn gave inconsistent seating. They shot ok for me my gun just doesn't like them as much as the Sierra or Nosler HPBT. I'll use the BT for hunting that's it!
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You will certainly be the coolest MF'r at the range, and isn't that what it is really all about? </div></div>
I really don't know WTF this is about. If you don't have a valid opinion take your shit somewhere else! Then again what do you expect from a Hockeyologist.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You will certainly be the coolest MF'r at the range, and isn't that what it is really all about? </div></div>
I really don't know WTF this is about. If you don't have a valid opinion take your shit somewhere else! Then again what do you expect from a Hockeyologist.
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scoutsout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't care for the a-max they had bad weight variations and <span style="font-weight: bold">length variations because of the ballistic tip being inconsistent length</span>; which In turn gave inconsistent seating. They shot ok for me my gun just doesn't like them as much as the Sierra or Nosler HPBT. I'll use the BT for hunting that's it!</div></div>
The bold above tells me you are measuring from base to tip which isn't where you should be measuring. Should be to the ogive. People trim meplats to get a more uniform BC and not to get closer OAL.
The AMAX bullets work just fine at long range. If you want a standard BTHP then try the 178 BTHP. With the new AMP jacketing process the meplats are more uniform.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scoutsout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't care for the a-max they had bad weight variations and <span style="font-weight: bold">length variations because of the ballistic tip being inconsistent length</span>; which In turn gave inconsistent seating. They shot ok for me my gun just doesn't like them as much as the Sierra or Nosler HPBT. I'll use the BT for hunting that's it!</div></div>
The bold above tells me you are measuring from base to tip which isn't where you should be measuring. Should be to the ogive. People trim meplats to get a more uniform BC and not to get closer OAL.
The AMAX bullets work just fine at long range. If you want a standard BTHP then try the 178 BTHP. With the new AMP jacketing process the meplats are more uniform.
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
Written experience by those who do it is you'll shrink your groups a little (as you've improved consistency) at the cost of perhaps a half-minute of elevation.
If you're shooting little-bitty targets (like the F-Class X-ring at 1,000) I'd think it's worth your time. If you're trying to hit an E-type silhouette I'd use my time and money for other pursuits.
If you look at Lapua Scenar tips it generally seems they've been trimmed and uniformed.
Written experience by those who do it is you'll shrink your groups a little (as you've improved consistency) at the cost of perhaps a half-minute of elevation.
If you're shooting little-bitty targets (like the F-Class X-ring at 1,000) I'd think it's worth your time. If you're trying to hit an E-type silhouette I'd use my time and money for other pursuits.
If you look at Lapua Scenar tips it generally seems they've been trimmed and uniformed.
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
Is meplat trimming worth it: NO, in my opinion
Is meplat pointing worth it: Yes, in my opinion
Instead of trimming the point and loosing BC, one uses teh Widden pointing die to gain BC.
Is meplat trimming worth it: NO, in my opinion
Is meplat pointing worth it: Yes, in my opinion
Instead of trimming the point and loosing BC, one uses teh Widden pointing die to gain BC.
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Written experience by those who do it is you'll shrink your groups a little (as you've improved consistency) at the cost of perhaps a half-minute of elevation.
If you're shooting little-bitty targets (like the F-Class X-ring at 1,000) I'd think it's worth your time. If you're trying to hit an E-type silhouette I'd use my time and money for other pursuits.
If you look at Lapua Scenar tips it generally seems they've been trimmed and uniformed. </div></div>
Thanks for the info
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Written experience by those who do it is you'll shrink your groups a little (as you've improved consistency) at the cost of perhaps a half-minute of elevation.
If you're shooting little-bitty targets (like the F-Class X-ring at 1,000) I'd think it's worth your time. If you're trying to hit an E-type silhouette I'd use my time and money for other pursuits.
If you look at Lapua Scenar tips it generally seems they've been trimmed and uniformed. </div></div>
Thanks for the info
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Instead of trimming the point and loosing BC, one uses teh Widden pointing die to gain BC. </div></div>
...or trim to even things out, *then* point to gain back what you lost. With a Giraud trimmer the meplat uniforming step is really fast and easy.
And if you're *really* bored / OCD... set the trimmer for a few thou longer (very simple with Skip Otto die shims) and take just a whisker off the final product.
Some numbers from some testing done by Dave Tooley last year...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here’s some preliminary numbers from the Doppler radar test.
Average G7 BC from 500-1200 yds.
Stock .289
Trimmed .286
Pointed .298
Trimmed and pointed .297
The stock and trimmed numbers are that close because of your conservative trim job. In real life applied to other bullets with bad meplats a conservative trim could actually increase the BC. Reason being the under lying factor we are correcting is in flight yaw. Reduce the yaw without increasing the meplat diameter and the BC could go up slightly.
Pointing these bullets increases the BC 3.1%
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Instead of trimming the point and loosing BC, one uses teh Widden pointing die to gain BC. </div></div>
...or trim to even things out, *then* point to gain back what you lost. With a Giraud trimmer the meplat uniforming step is really fast and easy.
And if you're *really* bored / OCD... set the trimmer for a few thou longer (very simple with Skip Otto die shims) and take just a whisker off the final product.
Some numbers from some testing done by Dave Tooley last year...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here’s some preliminary numbers from the Doppler radar test.
Average G7 BC from 500-1200 yds.
Stock .289
Trimmed .286
Pointed .298
Trimmed and pointed .297
The stock and trimmed numbers are that close because of your conservative trim job. In real life applied to other bullets with bad meplats a conservative trim could actually increase the BC. Reason being the under lying factor we are correcting is in flight yaw. Reduce the yaw without increasing the meplat diameter and the BC could go up slightly.
Pointing these bullets increases the BC 3.1%
</div></div>
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find Amax's fly just fine, and there cheaper than any bullet that might require Meplat trimming, it's also my understanding that trimming decreases BC, and pointing trimmed pills increases the BC back to there former state, or almost, I said this before and I'll say it again, less time reloading equals more time shooting. </div></div>
If you trim then repoint you will gain roughly 5% bc over the unaltered bullet. You definitely don't lose any bc if done correctly. With that said, the difference is probably not worth the time. However, when using the Giraud to trim the Meplats, you can trim and point roughly 200 bullets an hour.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find Amax's fly just fine, and there cheaper than any bullet that might require Meplat trimming, it's also my understanding that trimming decreases BC, and pointing trimmed pills increases the BC back to there former state, or almost, I said this before and I'll say it again, less time reloading equals more time shooting. </div></div>
If you trim then repoint you will gain roughly 5% bc over the unaltered bullet. You definitely don't lose any bc if done correctly. With that said, the difference is probably not worth the time. However, when using the Giraud to trim the Meplats, you can trim and point roughly 200 bullets an hour.
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
if you have the time for it,in competition can be a booster_not for ballistic reasons perhaps,but surely for the mind conditionement that repeat at your brain that you have performed ALL to win_ for me,that's enough_ (I uniform even the meplat holes,and my shrink says I can,if I don't disturb or harm anything,anyone or myself...)
if you have the time for it,in competition can be a booster_not for ballistic reasons perhaps,but surely for the mind conditionement that repeat at your brain that you have performed ALL to win_ for me,that's enough_ (I uniform even the meplat holes,and my shrink says I can,if I don't disturb or harm anything,anyone or myself...)
Re: Meplat trimming is it worth it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find Amax's fly just fine, and there cheaper than any bullet that might require Meplat trimming, it's also my understanding that trimming decreases BC, and pointing trimmed pills increases the BC back to there former state, or almost, I said this before and I'll say it again, less time reloading equals more time shooting. </div></div>
+1
The Amax bullets are already more consistant than the SMK, and if I recall correctly the Applied Ballistics for Long Range shooting (Brian Litz) stated a BC standard deviation of .019 with the Amax and a .040 BC standard deviation with the 175 SMK.
So in theory (if I understand it correctly) you will get ~50% less vertical stringing with the Amax.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find Amax's fly just fine, and there cheaper than any bullet that might require Meplat trimming, it's also my understanding that trimming decreases BC, and pointing trimmed pills increases the BC back to there former state, or almost, I said this before and I'll say it again, less time reloading equals more time shooting. </div></div>
+1
The Amax bullets are already more consistant than the SMK, and if I recall correctly the Applied Ballistics for Long Range shooting (Brian Litz) stated a BC standard deviation of .019 with the Amax and a .040 BC standard deviation with the 175 SMK.
So in theory (if I understand it correctly) you will get ~50% less vertical stringing with the Amax.
