mil-spec 168gr ammo
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Re: mil-spec 168gr ammo
I have an old book: <span style="font-style: italic">Cartridges of the World</span> by Frank C. Barnes and Stan Skinner. (can't recall the edition, but I'm sure there's newer ones out there). They state that the M852 match cartridge developed for the military M14 matches utilized a Sierra 168 gr. match projectile and ~42.0 gr. of IMR4895. This load should develop a muzzle velocity of approximately 2,600 fps in the M14.
I have an old book: <span style="font-style: italic">Cartridges of the World</span> by Frank C. Barnes and Stan Skinner. (can't recall the edition, but I'm sure there's newer ones out there). They state that the M852 match cartridge developed for the military M14 matches utilized a Sierra 168 gr. match projectile and ~42.0 gr. of IMR4895. This load should develop a muzzle velocity of approximately 2,600 fps in the M14.
Re: mil-spec 168gr ammo
+1 on that load and that book. A few years ago when the 'new' IMR8208xbr came out I looked in Cartridges of the World and found an old 5.56 load listing 8208 as the powder and the charge weight was the same as current listed max; neat book!
+1 on that load and that book. A few years ago when the 'new' IMR8208xbr came out I looked in Cartridges of the World and found an old 5.56 load listing 8208 as the powder and the charge weight was the same as current listed max; neat book!
Re: mil-spec 168gr ammo
Since this will be used in a G3, I'd probably skip the mil-spec and load those 168s a little hotter. The 168 match loads were developed for the M14 and restricted to lower velocities to prevent op-rod damage to the M14. The G3 uses a roller-block delayed blowback mechanism and so should be able to handle higher pressures and velocities needed to keep the 168 stable out to longer ranges. Shoot for a velocity of 2700 or better if you plan on shooting 168's past 500M. Watch for pressure signs, but don't worry too much about it since you can't reuse cartridges fired from the G3's fluted chamber anyway.
Since this will be used in a G3, I'd probably skip the mil-spec and load those 168s a little hotter. The 168 match loads were developed for the M14 and restricted to lower velocities to prevent op-rod damage to the M14. The G3 uses a roller-block delayed blowback mechanism and so should be able to handle higher pressures and velocities needed to keep the 168 stable out to longer ranges. Shoot for a velocity of 2700 or better if you plan on shooting 168's past 500M. Watch for pressure signs, but don't worry too much about it since you can't reuse cartridges fired from the G3's fluted chamber anyway.
Re: mil-spec 168gr ammo
I prefer an alternative to MilSpec for the M14/M1A. 175gr SMK, Rem brass, 42.2gr IMR-4064, and a large rifle primer, 2.815" Max COAL. F/L resize every time, no shorter than is necessary to chamber the round.
For Match shooting, I used the Fed 210M. If (and only if) extraction becomes an issue, it could be worth considering a small base resizer die. Always load semi's so the bolt is required to strip every round out of the magazine.
The 168 should work fine as a substitute for the 175SMK; it was a practice with the arsenals to use the same charge for several different bullet weights. But the 175 is the preferred bullet over the 168 for distances exceeding 800yd.
Be aware, published charge weights for USGI arsenal loads were estimates; each lot was actually loaded to a spec based on test velocity, not charge weight, as is duly noted in the Barnes book. Blindly using them could result in pressure issues due to powder variations over the decades since they were published.
Greg
I prefer an alternative to MilSpec for the M14/M1A. 175gr SMK, Rem brass, 42.2gr IMR-4064, and a large rifle primer, 2.815" Max COAL. F/L resize every time, no shorter than is necessary to chamber the round.
For Match shooting, I used the Fed 210M. If (and only if) extraction becomes an issue, it could be worth considering a small base resizer die. Always load semi's so the bolt is required to strip every round out of the magazine.
The 168 should work fine as a substitute for the 175SMK; it was a practice with the arsenals to use the same charge for several different bullet weights. But the 175 is the preferred bullet over the 168 for distances exceeding 800yd.
Be aware, published charge weights for USGI arsenal loads were estimates; each lot was actually loaded to a spec based on test velocity, not charge weight, as is duly noted in the Barnes book. Blindly using them could result in pressure issues due to powder variations over the decades since they were published.
Greg
Re: mil-spec 168gr ammo
I've shot a bunch of 168 SMKs with 41.5 gr. of IMR 4895 using commercial brass. Loaded light for an M1A, but that load in LC should be safe enough in a HK 91.
I've shot a bunch of 168 SMKs with 41.5 gr. of IMR 4895 using commercial brass. Loaded light for an M1A, but that load in LC should be safe enough in a HK 91.
Re: mil-spec 168gr ammo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gene Poole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since this will be used in a G3, I'd probably skip the mil-spec and load those 168s a little hotter. The 168 match loads were developed for the M14 and restricted to lower velocities to prevent op-rod damage to the M14. The G3 uses a roller-block delayed blowback mechanism and so should be able to handle higher pressures and velocities needed to keep the 168 stable out to longer ranges. Shoot for a velocity of 2700 or better if you plan on shooting 168's past 500M. Watch for pressure signs, but don't worry too much about it since you can't reuse cartridges fired from the G3's fluted chamber anyway. </div></div>
Regarding cases fired by the HK G3 actions not being reusable this is incorrect. I owned an HK91 for many years and reloaded cases fired from the HK91 over a dozen times without any issue. I had installed a case buffer and brass catcher on my HK91 to minimize case damage.
I performed my usual vibratory or tumbling case cleaners along with good visual inspection routines to cull worn cases just as I do for all brass I reload. I found that by full length re-sizing and trimming the loaded rounds were just as accurate and cycled 100% reliably just as new ammo with zero case failures.
I used the same cases, primers, powders and bullets (168gr and 175gr SMKs) I used for my .308Win bolt gun and saw very similar performance and accuracy limited of course by the iron sights I used for the HK91. I saw 2,700fps for 168SMK and 2,620fps for 175SMKs with surprisingly good accuracy to 800-900 yards with both rounds using the standard HK91 open military sights. The HK91 was not as accurate as my very good bolt gun but it shot very close to the bolt gun.
HTH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gene Poole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since this will be used in a G3, I'd probably skip the mil-spec and load those 168s a little hotter. The 168 match loads were developed for the M14 and restricted to lower velocities to prevent op-rod damage to the M14. The G3 uses a roller-block delayed blowback mechanism and so should be able to handle higher pressures and velocities needed to keep the 168 stable out to longer ranges. Shoot for a velocity of 2700 or better if you plan on shooting 168's past 500M. Watch for pressure signs, but don't worry too much about it since you can't reuse cartridges fired from the G3's fluted chamber anyway. </div></div>
Regarding cases fired by the HK G3 actions not being reusable this is incorrect. I owned an HK91 for many years and reloaded cases fired from the HK91 over a dozen times without any issue. I had installed a case buffer and brass catcher on my HK91 to minimize case damage.
I performed my usual vibratory or tumbling case cleaners along with good visual inspection routines to cull worn cases just as I do for all brass I reload. I found that by full length re-sizing and trimming the loaded rounds were just as accurate and cycled 100% reliably just as new ammo with zero case failures.
I used the same cases, primers, powders and bullets (168gr and 175gr SMKs) I used for my .308Win bolt gun and saw very similar performance and accuracy limited of course by the iron sights I used for the HK91. I saw 2,700fps for 168SMK and 2,620fps for 175SMKs with surprisingly good accuracy to 800-900 yards with both rounds using the standard HK91 open military sights. The HK91 was not as accurate as my very good bolt gun but it shot very close to the bolt gun.
HTH!
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