Minimum load showing pressure signs

[rudynix]

I loaded up some 30-06 for my M1917 Enfield using IMR4350 at 54.0 gr of powder, new R-P cases, Hornady 168 gr HPBT Match bullets, and Federal #210 LR primers, with an overall cartridge lenght of 3.270". The bullet is off the lands by about .010". I hadn't fired this thing in about 20 years, but cleaned it up real good and took it to the range. It seemed like it kicked a bit more than I remembered and also noticed that the primers were flattening out some. Hodgdon's web site shows this load as minimum load. The powder was acquired a couple of months ago. I did have some ammo left over from 20 years ago that I had loaded then, and they don't get the flattened primers, nor do they kick as hard. I use a RCBS Charge Master combo to measure my powder, and verify the weight using a RCBS 10-10-10 beam scale, so I am sure of the amount of powder in the cartridge. Could it be possible that the powder is a little hotter than it should be?
Here's a 5 shot group shot using these loads @ 100yds. It measured 0.707" CTC.

 

[rudynix]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

It would probably help if I show the primers. The one on the left is the one loaded with 54.0 gr of IMR4350. The one on the right was loaded 20 years ago that I fired today for comparison.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

That seems odd, FWIW those primers dont look too bad.

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

I'll second that, the one on the left isnt bad.

Shoot it over a chrony and see what happens. I'd say that is great accuracy too. Is it a sporterized gun or straight military rifle?

 

[rudynix]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

Thanks for your responses guys. I'll agree with both of you that the primer on the left is not really that bad, but I was very surprised to see it look like that with a minimum load. I usually make my loads around the middle of the published load data for any particular powder that I may be using and have never had the primers flatten like that. I acquired this rifle when I was 16 years old. At the time it had the military stock and bent floorplate. The action itself had Brithish markings and was drilled and tapped for a scope mount. While I was in High school, I made a stock for it in woodshop. Thinking back, it's kind of funny because I was able to bring the rifle to school to fit the stock. But then again, that was 1967. Here's a picture of it:

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

Another possibility is the primers are just softer than the older batch. This could be a case of "they dont make 'em like they used to" you will see some variation from one brand to another. I wouldn't worry too much about it, just keep working slowly and see what you can get out of it.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

Check this out.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...772#Post2734772
I have a pic of some primers showing pressure.
You may want to go with a military rifle primer.
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers.aspx?id=30

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

forgot to say. Don't change that load. It is working for you.

 

[jlow]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rudynix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for your responses guys. I'll agree with both of you that the primer on the left is not really that bad, but I was very surprised to see it look like that with a minimum load. I usually make my loads around the middle of the published load data for any particular powder that I may be using and have never had the primers flatten like that. I acquired this rifle when I was 16 years old. At the time it had the military stock and bent floorplate. The action itself had Brithish markings and was drilled and tapped for a scope mount. While I was in High school, I made a stock for it in woodshop. Thinking back, it's kind of funny because I was able to bring the rifle to school to fit the stock. But then again, that was 1967. Here's a picture of it:
</div></div>

Nice grouping – I second the comment about not changing the load and a chrony would be very telling as to any change to the powder’s characteristics.

Speaking of what “we used to do” in the old days. I remember being the captain of the school’s shooting team in a boarding school in the early 70s, and was allowed to keep my rifle and ammunition under my bed (which was one of those box type affairs) during the school year – LOL!

 

[rudynix]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

The only problem that I find with this load is that my body just doesn't seem to be able to take this amount of recoil as it used to

. My groups open up considerably after around 40 rounds. I'm thinking that maybe since I was using new brass, it may have been causing a bit of head space problem. I'll have to try and reload some of the brass that have been fire formed in my chamber and see if it makes a difference. Hopefully I'll also get a chance to chronny these rounds. It is just such a PITA to try and set up at the local rifle range.

I miss them days......

 

[5R Milspec]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

nice job on the stock.

 

[rudynix]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

Thanks, 5R milspec. I got an A for that woodshop project

.

 

[jlow]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

If you think it is a headspace problem, you can always check it with a headspace gauge, something that is always useful anyway. The chrony is of course the most direct method if you think the round combo is much hotter.

I try to chrony most of my rounds when I am doing load development and it is a hassle as apart from dragging the thing out, other shooters at the range always affect my chrony even though their rounds does not pass anywhere close to the sensors.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

I don't think you have a problem. All looks good. Don't change because of the primer signs. Get some more padding on your shoulder and shoot. JMHO

 

[rudynix]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

LOL, I guess I better go look for some more padding

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

Check Wal-Mart Sporting Goods department for Winchester/Limbsaver Slip=On Recoil Pads. While none of my rifles are really bad kickers, I use them on several to add an inch of LOP length.

Greg

 

[AKAce]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

Your Primers are Fine...

But, FWIW Low charges will show Pressure Signs Quicker than High charges.

 

[judgedelta]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

Check out a Past strap-on recoil pad. Really works good on hard kickers. Doesn't permanently change the length of pull, so when you put on a jacket, your stock won't be too long. In California, you may not even own a jacket?? Primer doesn't look too bad, could be a headspace issue, from what I've read. Low pressure (light load) could contribute to this. Group doesn't look bad at all.

 

[rudynix]

Re: Minimum load showing pressure signs

I had originally started load development for this cartridge using 56.0 grains of IMR4350, which was the middle load according to the hodgdon's website. Upon firing those rounds, the primers were completely flatened, with no radius on the edges of the primers. That's why I had reduced the load down to minimum. I think that once I finish loading all the rest of the new cases and fire forming them to my chamber, I'll resize them to were I just bump the shoulder and see what the results will be then. I definitely need to invest in a head space gauge.