Rifle Scopes MOA or MRAD for F-Class?

J

Jim C

Private
Minuteman
Jun 13, 2019
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Mission, Texas
#1
So now that I've decided on a Votex scope, I'm trying to decide on whether to go MOA or MRAD. I keep hearing it doesn't matter, yet I also keep seeing references to F-Class shooters using predominantly MOA. Not sure why it'd matter. I'm probably going to be doing mostly target shooting, and was going to get MRAD. But I will probably want to try F-Class down the road. That being a possibility, should I go MOA?

Thanks,
-jim
 
#3
If more familiar / comfortable with calling wind in Mils, stick to Mils.
F-class Targets are in MOA, 1/2 MOA X-ring, 1 MOA 10-ring, 2 MOA 9-ring, 3 MOA -8 ring....

Normally I use sighters to get scope dialed in for predominant conditions, once shooting for record I just hold off and don’t mess with dialing.
 
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#4
C3359E5A-2002-4F7F-9EA2-2A8BEBE80875.jpeg
 
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#5
Most F-Class shooters are using moa scopes with 1/8th clicks.

The reason you want 1/8th moa adjustments is to center your group 1/4 moa or .1 mil is too large of an adjustment. They do make .05 mil scopes but majority of F-Class scopes are 1/8th moa.

If your looking at Vortex look at the Golden Eagle a great value if you want to spend more money Nightforce Competition 15-55 are excellent. If you have no budget in mind March 10-60 scopes are also excellent
 
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#7
Tony1320 said:
Most F-Class shooters are using moa scopes with 1/8th clicks.

The reason you want 1/8th moa adjustments is to center your group 1/4 moa or .1 mil is too large of an adjustment. They do make .05 mil scopes but majority of F-Class scopes are 1/8th moa.

If your looking at Vortex look at the Golden Eagle a great value if you want to spend more money Nightforce Competition 15-55 are excellent. If you have no budget in mind March 10-60 scopes are also excellent
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. I did look at the Golden Eagle but wanted a FFP scope. And that Nightforce is beyond my budget. -jim
 
#9
Jim C said:
Thanks guys! -jim


I'm familiar with this meme from other threads, and apologize if I've offended you by posting another MOA/MRAD question. But I've looked at other threads and couldn't find clarification as to which I might need at F-Class competitions. Thought it was ok to ask questions.
Click to expand...

It’s not that anyone has “taken offense,” it’s that this question comes up from new guys several times a week. The search function will prove immensely helpful to you going forward.

Maybe a “master thread” should be created on this subject that says what Frank said in a recent podcast episode. Link to it in the registration form for new members in such a way that you must click the link to the post, scroll down through it, and click accept that you’ve read it. Then, if anyone asks this, it’s an automatic “vacation” for 30 days, as indicated on the registration page that they acknowledged. If they ask again, then it’s a 90-day vacation. Three strikes and you’re out. Just a thought... :)
 
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#11
Basher said:
It’s not that anyone has “taken offense,” it’s that this question comes up from new guys several times a week. The search function will prove immensely helpful to you going forward.

Maybe a “master thread” should be created on this subject that says what Frank said in a recent podcast episode. Link to it in the registration form for new members in such a way that you must click the link to the post, scroll down through it, and click accept that you’ve read it. Then, if anyone asks this, it’s an automatic “vacation” for 30 days, as indicated on the registration page that they acknowledged. If they ask again, then it’s a 90-day vacation. Three strikes and you’re out. Just a thought... :)
Click to expand...

I get that. But I did try searching (as I mentioned above) and was not able to find an answer. That being the case I thought it would be acceptable to ask the question. Are there really any questions that have never been asked? I'll think harder before asking questions in the future. Thx.
 
#16
Jim C said:
I get that. But I did try searching (as I mentioned above) and was not able to find an answer. That being the case I thought it would be acceptable to ask the question. Are there really any questions that have never been asked? I'll think harder before asking questions in the future. Thx.
Click to expand...

I’m quite positive that there are a BOATLOAD of questions that haven’t been asked before. But “mil vs moa” ain’t one of them! It’s literally the most asked question on the Hide, hence why we’re all so tired of seeing it pop up. It’s not you, it’s just about every noob who joins, so don’t take it personally.

Let me help you out:

LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You

For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.
lmgtfy.com lmgtfy.com
 
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#18
Jim C said:
Thanks for the clarification. I did look at the Golden Eagle but wanted a FFP scope. And that Nightforce is beyond my budget. -jim
Click to expand...

If this scope will be mainly for class you don't want a ffp scope. The crosshair will be large and cover a lot of the target so that makes it hard to have a precise aiming point. You are shooting for X's (1/2 moa) not large steel plates. If the Nightforce is out of your budget I think the two best options would be the Golden Eagle or Delta Stryker 5-50
 
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#20
Jim C said:
I get that. But I did try searching (as I mentioned above) and was not able to find an answer. That being the case I thought it would be acceptable to ask the question. Are there really any questions that have never been asked? I'll think harder before asking questions in the future. Thx.
Click to expand...
The site search function is lacking. Don't worry about any question you ask, as when the dog piles start it's mostly in fun,..but if they get out of hand band cat has a way to level the playing field. Helps to have thick skin at times an even the HMFIC gets ribbed about " things over his head" every so often. Welcome, take a chill pill, set back an enjoy the show,...
 
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#22
Gunfighter14e2 said:
The site search function is lacking. Don't worry about any question you ask, as when the dog piles start it's mostly in fun,..but if they get out of hand band cat has a way to level the playing field. Helps to have thick skin at times an even the HMFIC gets ribbed about " things over his head" every so often. Welcome, take a chill pill, set back an enjoy the show,...
Click to expand...

 
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#24
Basher said:
I’m quite positive that there are a BOATLOAD of questions that haven’t been asked before. But “mil vs moa” ain’t one of them! It’s literally the most asked question on the Hide, hence why we’re all so tired of seeing it pop up. It’s not you, it’s just about every noob who joins, so don’t take it personally.

Let me help you out:

LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You

For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.
lmgtfy.com lmgtfy.com
Click to expand...

Thanks. Trust me, though, I've done that. I think what you're missing is that I wasn't asking about the difference between MOA and MRAD. I've done that and I understand the difference. What I haven't been able to find is what would be the appropriate choice for F-Class competitions. I haven't been able to find that answer. And yes, I have googled F-Class. So I thought it would be ok to ask for that clarification here. Apparently i was incorrect. What I don't get is that if you all think this is just another repeat why not just scroll past. Not sure why some feel obligated to try and make me feel bad.
 
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#26
Jim C said:
Thanks. Trust me, though, I've done that. I think what you're missing is that I wasn't asking about the difference between MOA and MRAD. I've done that and I understand the difference. What I haven't been able to find is what would be the appropriate choice for F-Class competitions. I haven't been able to find that answer. And yes, I have googled F-Class. So I thought it would be ok to ask for that clarification here. Apparently i was incorrect. What I don't get is that if you all think this is just another repeat why not just scroll past. Not sure why some feel obligated to try and make me feel bad.
Click to expand...

I mean, if you understand angular units of measurement, you should also understand that the question of "which angular unit of measurement employed in a scope reticle is the best for F-Class" would otherwise be seen as rhetorical, not that there's anything wrong with that.
 
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#28
Jim C said:
Thanks. Trust me, though, I've done that. I think what you're missing is that I wasn't asking about the difference between MOA and MRAD. I've done that and I understand the difference. What I haven't been able to find is what would be the appropriate choice for F-Class competitions. I haven't been able to find that answer. And yes, I have googled F-Class. So I thought it would be ok to ask for that clarification here. Apparently i was incorrect. What I don't get is that if you all think this is just another repeat why not just scroll past. Not sure why some feel obligated to try and make me feel bad.
Click to expand...

See above, sometimes it’s just because we’re a bunch of jerks here, haha. I see your point w/ it not being a simple “which is better” post. My apologies if you feel I’ve been heavy-handed, but what has been said about having “thick skin” is true as well, haha. We all take digs at each other from time to time, stick around long enough and you’ll get your chance at one of us. ?
 
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#29
QuickNDirty said:
I mean, if you understand angular units of measurement, you should also understand that the question of "which angular unit of measurement employed in a scope reticle is the best for F-Class" would otherwise be seen as rhetorical, not that there's anything wrong with that.
Click to expand...
Well, I don't quite follow your point, but that's ok. Maybe the problem is I don't really know much about F-Class. But I won't be asking about that ... lol
 
#30
Basher said:
See above, sometimes it’s just because we’re a bunch of jerks here, haha. I see your point w/ it not being a simple “which is better” post. My apologies if you feel I’ve been heavy-handed, but what has been said about having “thick skin” is true as well, haha. We all take digs at each other from time to time, stick around long enough and you’ll get your chance at one of us. ?
Click to expand...

Thanks. I try not to be too sensitive, but often I fail miserably ...
 
#33
Basher said:
See above, sometimes it’s just because we’re a bunch of jerks here, haha. I see your point w/ it not being a simple “which is better” post. My apologies if you feel I’ve been heavy-handed, but what has been said about having “thick skin” is true as well, haha. We all take digs at each other from time to time, stick around long enough and you’ll get your chance at one of us. ?
Click to expand...
Well he (gender assumed) did call @abn31c a jerk. Which is a good start. ?
 
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#34
For F class the guys who are really serious about it shoot MOA scopes. The targets are in MOA and everyone talks MOA. Here is the thing. When I first started competing long range I showed up to an F class match with not much more than a bone stock 308, a Harris bipod and an old sock full of rice as my rear bag. I had a $700 mil based FFP Scope on my rifle. It probably goes without saying but I was a little out of place. There were guys there with front rests that cost three times what my whole set up cost. They had their little groups and didn’t really do much to help new guys which was a very difference experience from what I was used to with other shooting sports. I went ahead and shot the match in tactical class and did pretty well. I left that match and never did another one. It just wasn’t fun for me. After that I tried a PRS match and the whole experience was a 180. Great people all willing to help and a whole lot of fun. Now I’m by no means saying that all F class matches are like that. That was simply the experience I had here. What I am saying is before you decide to make a big investment in a scope you may want to just take what you have and see if you actually enjoy it. If you love it then jump in with both feet. On the other hand if you like it as much as I did and have no interest in shooting another match then you don’t have a $2k MOA scope that you now want to use to shoot in a sport dominated by Mil based Optics like PRS.
 
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#35
Eoddave27 said:
For F class the guys who are really serious about it shoot MOA scopes. The targets are in MOA and everyone talks MOA. Here is the thing. When I first started competing long range I showed up to an F class match with not much more than a bone stock 308, a Harris bipod and an old sock full of rice as my rear bag. I had a $700 mil based FFP Scope on my rifle. It probably goes without saying but I was a little out of place. There were guys there with front rests that cost three times what my whole set up cost. They had their little groups and didn’t really do much to help new guys which was a very difference experience from what I was used to with other shooting sports. I went ahead and shot the match in tactical class and did pretty well. I left that match and never did another one. It just wasn’t fun for me. After that I tried a PRS match and the whole experience was a 180. Great people all willing to help and a whole lot of fun. Now I’m by no means saying that all F class matches are like that. That was simply the experience I had here. What I am saying is before you decide to make a big investment in a scope you may want to just take what you have and see if you actually enjoy it. If you love it then jump in with both feet. On the other hand if like it as much as I did and have no interest in shooting another match then you don’t have a $2k MOA scope that you now want to shoot in a sport dominated by Mil based Optics.
Click to expand...
Thanks. That makes sense if I already had equipment. I'm starting from scratch and have pretty much zero experience shooting long range. I shoot a 10/22 at 100 yards, but would like to try shooting long distance - I have access to up to 300 yards at my neighborhood range, and past 1000 yards at a range that's a short drive away. I'm happy shooting targets, but anticipate that once I get decent, that it'd be fun to shoot competitively. Problem is I don't know much about long distance competitions. F-Class seems to be what I hear most about, and I thought I should buy equipment that would work for target shooting, but also be a appropriate for competition down the road. Hence my question. I appreciate your comments. -jim
 
#37
If you have 2k to spend on an Fclass scope. A used nightforce comp is what you need. Ffp is an unneeded expense. They can be found from 1600-2000 on the used market pretty easily. There’s actually one in the px right now.
 
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#41
Jim C said:
I'm starting from scratch and have pretty much zero experience shooting long range.
Click to expand...

I normally shoot F-class, but just recently started dabbling in PRS. I don't think FFP or Mils will hold you back when you decide to try out F-class either Midrange (300-600yd) or Longrange (800, 900, 1K). Initially, you will have a learning curve when you ask about wind calls and convert MOA/inch-per-hundred to your Mils but you will get the hang of it.
 
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#43
smoothy8500 said:
I normally shoot F-class, but just recently started dabbling in PRS. I don't think FFP or Mils will hold you back when you decide to try out F-class either Midrange (300-600yd) or Longrange (800, 900, 1K). Initially, you will have a learning curve when you ask about wind calls and convert MOA/inch-per-hundred to your Mils but you will get the hang of it.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'm not familiar at all with PRS. I'll have to check that out. Which do you like better?
 
#45
Eoddave27 said:
For F class the guys who are really serious about it shoot MOA scopes. The targets are in MOA and everyone talks MOA. Here is the thing. When I first started competing long range I showed up to an F class match with not much more than a bone stock 308, a Harris bipod and an old sock full of rice as my rear bag. I had a $700 mil based FFP Scope on my rifle. It probably goes without saying but I was a little out of place. There were guys there with front rests that cost three times what my whole set up cost. They had their little groups and didn’t really do much to help new guys which was a very difference experience from what I was used to with other shooting sports. I went ahead and shot the match in tactical class and did pretty well. I left that match and never did another one. It just wasn’t fun for me. After that I tried a PRS match and the whole experience was a 180. Great people all willing to help and a whole lot of fun. Now I’m by no means saying that all F class matches are like that. That was simply the experience I had here. What I am saying is before you decide to make a big investment in a scope you may want to just take what you have and see if you actually enjoy it. If you love it then jump in with both feet. On the other hand if like it as much as I did and have no interest in shooting another match then you don’t have a $2k MOA scope that you now want to shoot in a sport dominated by Mil based Optics.
Click to expand...

Ha! Pretty much my experience. My very first F-class match - I had my Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 CM. Vortex HST. Harris bipod. Rear squeeze bag. Factory loads. 600 yards.

I went with a friend (who shoots Service Rifle class), who would have helped me, but I got squadded with an F-class dude. I pretty much had no idea what I was doing, and my "squad-mate" could not be bothered. I asked him a question, and he said, "It's your rifle." What a dick. He kept to himself, measuring his cartridges with a micrometer. He had no interest in helping a newbie. I was on my own.

There were 8 shooters in the F-class category. I came in 6th! Beat two of them! HA! I was "unclassified," since it was my first time. The 7th and 8th place guys were classified as "Master" and "Expert." Suck it!

My buddy (the service rifle dude) says, "You know what the hardest thing about being an F-class shooter is?"

No. What?

"Telling your parents you're gay." :ROFLMAO:

But, back to the OP... I don't think he's asking, "Which is better: MOA or MIL?"

I think he's asking what the "standard" is for F-class. And, the answer is: MOA. It's what they use and "speak." It's not that it's "better" than MIL. It's simply the language they speak. If you're going to run with that pack, I'd speak what they speak.
 
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#46
1J04 said:
Ja @TheGerman :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

USS MIDWAY (CV-41) 87-90 TRUSTY SHELLBACK SINCE 1981

Sorry for off-topic. I tried to PM you, but the system was returning an error (wouldn't let me do it).


I saw in your signature:

USS MIDWAY (CV-41) 87-90 TRUSTY SHELLBACK SINCE 1981

I was on the Independence (CV-62) 1989 - 1991. Your ship relieved mine in the Persian Gulf in 1990. Our ships also met up in Pearl Harbor for "crossover" when we moved our homeport to Yokosuka.

<--- also a trusty Shellback! :)
 
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#47
Jim, if you want to dip your foot and see a little bit about what PRS is like then it sounds like you may have everything you need to try some NRL22 matches. All you should need is your 10/22 and a scope. It’s the same concept as PRS only you use a 22lr and typically shoot between 25 and 300 yards. Most of the guys I know who shoot NRL matches started them out as practice for PRS and enjoyed the matches so much they kept coming back. I shoot them year round now and honestly enjoy them more than any of the other matches I shoot. The NRL matches are a great way to see if you even like the competition aspect of shooting. They are low stress and and a great way to meet other people in the shooting community who can help you with the other types of matches you may want to shoot. One thing I will mention about F class which is something I never really considered before I shot. Im not that old but my body was pretty beat up in the military. Laying prone in the sun long enough to fire a controlled accurate 20 shot string really sucked! I’m not that 19 year old 10’ tall and bulletproof private any more and my body let me know that. Getting old sucks and I’m not even old yet!
 
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#48
Eoddave27 said:
Jim, if you want to dip your foot and see a little bit about what PRS is like then it sounds like you may have everything you need to try some NRL22 matches. All you should need is your 10/22 and a scope. It’s the same concept as PRS only you uses a 22lr and typically shoot between 25 and 300 yards. Most of the guys I know who shoot NRL matches started them out as practice for PRS and enjoyed the matches so much they kept coming back. I shoot them year round now and honestly enjoy them more than any of the other matches I shoot. The NRL matches are a great way to see if you even like the competition aspect of shooting. They are low stress and and a great way to meet other people in the shooting community who can help you with the other types of matches you may want to shoot. One thing I will mention about F class which is something I never really considered before I shot. Im not that old but my body was pretty beat up in the military. Laying prone in the sun long enough to fire a controlled accurate 20 shot string really sucked! I’m not that 19 year old 10’ tall and bulletproof private any more and my body let me know that. Getting old sucks and I’m not even old yet!
Click to expand...

Well, I am old! lol But at least I'm still in pretty decent shape. My neighborhood gun club actually started doing NRL22. I haven't had a chance to really look into what they were doing yet, but I'll make a point of checking it out. Sounds like it might be fun. Thanks!
 
#49
Jim C said:
Started out trying to find something for around $1000. But I raised the budget to $2000 thinking that it'd be preferable to get something a little higher quality.
Click to expand...
Sightron scopes are pretty popular with the F class crowd.
Huge bang for the buck, made in Japan goodness on the SIII and SV series.
For F Class, most prefer second focal plane and, as has been stated, 1/8 MOA adjustments.
This is an excellent choice, cost is just over 1000

Riflescopes, Sights, Binoculars & Optic Accessories - SWFA Outdoors

Shop for rifle scopes from top manufacturers like Burris, Bushnell, Leica, Leopold, Meopta, Nikon, Zeiss and more. Click through to find the latest deals.
www.swfa.com www.swfa.com

Burris also makes a model specifically for F Class:

Riflescopes, Sights, Binoculars & Optic Accessories - SWFA Outdoors

Shop for rifle scopes from top manufacturers like Burris, Bushnell, Leica, Leopold, Meopta, Nikon, Zeiss and more. Click through to find the latest deals.
www.swfa.com www.swfa.com
 
#50
fdkay said:
Sightron scopes are pretty popular with the F class crowd.
Huge bang for the buck, made in Japan goodness on the SIII and SV series.
For F Class, most prefer second focal plane and, as has been stated, 1/8 MOA adjustments.
This is an excellent choice, cost is just over 1000

Riflescopes, Sights, Binoculars & Optic Accessories - SWFA Outdoors

Shop for rifle scopes from top manufacturers like Burris, Bushnell, Leica, Leopold, Meopta, Nikon, Zeiss and more. Click through to find the latest deals.
www.swfa.com www.swfa.com

Burris also makes a model specifically for F Class:

Riflescopes, Sights, Binoculars & Optic Accessories - SWFA Outdoors

Shop for rifle scopes from top manufacturers like Burris, Bushnell, Leica, Leopold, Meopta, Nikon, Zeiss and more. Click through to find the latest deals.
www.swfa.com www.swfa.com
Click to expand...

Thanks. a lot. I'll take a look. I was planning on going FFP. But after seeing some comments here and watching more videos I'm rethinking that. -jim
 
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