Modern guns, ancient marketing...

[ZLBubba]

In the information age, we tend to have expectations regarding the data we can get on rifles we may want to drop a few thousand for. Still, I am honestly surprised that more gun companies and builders don't push the edge in marketing themselves.

I completely understand that some companies, especially the elite custom builders, may have no desire to churn out rifle after rifle, that the rarity and uniqueness of their work is satisfaction enough. I'm sure that others, though, wouldn't mind adding more CNC machines and more employees because they want more of their guns in the hands of discerning customers. I look at some of the relative newcomers (POF, LWRC, LMT, IRA, etc) and wonder how much of that marketing figures into their own growth strategies.

I can imagine that the gunmaker who sees the gap for information and accessibility on their products and advertises as such will capture a significant portion of market share simply because consumers will feel more comfortable having more comprehensive information. While people will say, "I'd rather have my riflebuilder making guns than updating their website...", I guarantee that the two aren't mutually exclusive.

What are your thoughts? How much does web-based data on rifles, cartridges, and ballistics influence the rifles you buy? Have you wanted more extensive information before reserving or ordering rifles?

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

When my wife and I were actively making and selling benchrest bullets, we spent a lot of advertising. Well... it was a lot for us. $250 to 500 a month for ads is quiet a handful when you're a one or two person operation. Advertising can eat up a LOT of money. If you're trying to make it on a shoestring budget, you do what you can afford.

 

[shankster..]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

Don't forget internet forums for product promotion.

I'm buying a $3,000.00 Larue 16" OBR semi-auto because the owner of the company posted it will have a 25% hit ratio with 2,500fps 175gr .308s at a distance of a mile.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...owner of the company posted it will have a 25% hit ratio with 2,500fps 175gr .308s at a distance of a mile.</div></div>

Is he specifying the size of the target barn, or is there a "standard barn"?

 

[shankster..]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

This is not the original claim thread however, you will enjoy him being pissed that people question the claim:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=982937&page=4


http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=982937&page=5

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't forget internet forums for product promotion.

I'm buying a $3,000.00 Larue 16" OBR semi-auto because the owner of the company posted it will have a 25% hit ratio with 2,500fps 175gr .308s at a distance of a mile. </div></div>

Classic.

I'd think that for a custom builder, reputation may be better overall than marketing. But for a company trying to bring something new to the business and have a larger production capability, I really think they have a larger margin for getting business.

Take a company like DTA for example. They're offering a new product that a lot of people are curious about. It's innovative and unique, and since the vast majority of us don't have a friend who has one that we can try, we use the internet to find out as much as we can before we drop $4000+ on a rifle. The more information, reviews by gun mags, streaming video, etc that a company has on a rifle, complete with guarantees, a consumer forum for asking questions, and perhaps even a lead time calculator (gasp!), you're going to get more customers.

Maybe I'm taking crazy pills...

 

[shankster..]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

I don't know about the 2 out of 8 claim but here it was a 18"x28" target shot by LaRue. I'm a believer:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=219&t=185563

BTW, precision bolt guns are now obsolete:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=219&t=183712

 

[Lindy]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

I'm a believer, too. I have seen many difficult feats accomplished, once, by luck or the grace of God.

Does that say anything except about blind chance? Does it testify to the usefulness of the gear involved in that task, or of the skill of the shooter? No.

And I have seen Bill Gates at a demo get the Blue Screen of Death, too, on a P.C. running the O.S. produced by his company.

I'm not going to try shooting targets at a mile with that rifle, because Mark LaRue got lucky once, nor am I going to trash my P.C. because Bill Gates got unlucky once.

Sometimes luck makes you look really, really, good, and sometimes it makes you look really, really, stupid.

It's still luck.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

A successful company can be run with nothing more than 'word of mouth' advertising. It's growth is easier to control/limit/manage in this manner too. Simply posting on an internet forum yields a certain amount of sales, but does not offer much more to the business than a little growth ability as all so called profit is turned back into the business.
Knowing these basic busoiness principles it tells me than no marketing is really needed for a custom rifle builder because most of them are regionally known and locally supported. When their rifles are seen in national matches, folks get curious. Growth follows and the rifle builder becomes a little more well known due to internet forum activity. Advertising is then possible through a few more sales out of the local/regional area and further growth happens. This is all standard until said rifle builder is no longer 'the flavor of the month' at said internet forum. Competition is a nasty business and staying in business with competition when many enter a niche market yields lower sales figures for all concerned when the entire market share is split.
Just a few general thoughts

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And I have seen Bill Gates at a demo get the Blue Screen of Death, too, on a P.C. running the O.S. produced by his company. </div></div>

I would have paid good money to see that. What was his reaction, besided absolute befuddlement?

 

[Lindy]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

Actually, it's happened more than once. Here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHUNdye0b1Y&feature=related

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, it's happened more than once. Here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHUNdye0b1Y&feature=related


</div></div>

God, that video is just awkward... Conan did a good job keeping it light, though.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

Many gun companies, and those companies who support the gun industry are run by blue collar guys who are mainly machinist and not versed in sales and marketing. Because of this they are unaware of what it takes to market a product successfully, which for someone like me is very difficult.

For example I was contacted by a marketing / ad agency for a major company this week. They asked about the current impressions of the banner ads on this site. Well I can tell you site wide the ads on here received 19.6 Million impressions in just March alone. Market value would tell you that this is worth a lot of money, however the gun industry will not swallow that number and I have to reduce the costs down to something more manageable for them. Even then, many balk at the price. What I charge for a year I can easily charger for a month if they follow the standard internet advertising model, but the gun industry doesn't understand that. If I told the vendors their costs for advertising on this site was going to increase 10X they would flip.

its part of this market, they don't understand the costs of doing business especially online and most would rather do nothing than to invest in their product. The ones that do spend their money go to things like magazine ads, which is no where near as effective as a place like this. A guy sitting on the crapper reading Guns & Ammo can't immediately link over and buy a product like they can here, yet even with 19.6 million impressions, they can charge 10X more than me an month because it's a traditional form of advertising that these guys know. To many of these guys the internet is "free". Meanwhile they will pay $2000+ a month for a static ad in print but immediately walk away from a $1000 charge for an interactive video review that links the viewer right to their doorstep while they are watching their product in action.

Education is the key, but is a slow process. Which is why the ad agencies love sites like this, more bang for their buck to a targeted audience.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Meanwhile they will pay $2000+ a month for a static ad in print but immediately walk away from a $1000 charge for an interactive video review that links the viewer right to their doorstep while they are watching their product in action.

Education is the key, but is a slow process. Which is why the ad agencies love sites like this, more bang for their buck to a targeted audience. </div></div>

I'm glad you chimed in, Frank. This is kind of where I was going with the original post. I actually read somewhere, either in an article or on Iron Ridge Arms' website, that referenced your work on their new 308 builds. While I knew that you have a close relationship with that company, it was good to see IRA seeking out your expertise and experience and using that as credibility for their advertisements. For discerning firearms customers, that's exactly what they want to see. Instead of Bubba shooting his IRA-308 on Youtube from the hip while hollering, "Watch this, y'all!", they can see you or Jacob putting the rifle through the motions at RO. Much more effective marketing, WAY more credible than some cheesy article in Guns and Ammo.

I see some impressive work done by various small firearms-related businesses but no one ever finds out about their work. People continue to buy lesser products simply because they don't know better alternatives exist. I like to see companies that have done me right do well, have success, and be rightfully recognized as premium companies.

I guess the whole problem boils down to companies that make great guns often aren't also keen advertisers as well. Marketing and gun building are certainly different skill sets, and if a guy is building my gun, I'd rather have him blessed with the former skill set instead of the latter.

 

[J-Hon]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

Franks on point...

Branding/web advertising/etc are things that the gun companies are woefully lacking in. The ones who do get it, usually get big (Look at Magpul, AAC, TAD gear, GAP, etc). The ones who don't languish, or worse yet, get involved in internet culture and say/do something stupid and kill their company.

Most gun industry people think simply having a website alone is somehow a key to magically turning over huge numbers. Unfortunately, they don't realize that simply having a site means pretty much dick, as the name of the game is actually generating traffic to it, and that's not always as easy as paying another HS kid $150. Though to be fair, even the guys selling SEO black magic voodoo for $1k a month probably aren't going to help much either.

Sites like these ARE the future. Traditional print media is dead/dying, and has been for a while. A savvy person should look at some of the companies who have "made it", and see how much time is spent playing in the online realms.

 

[shankster..]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Hon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Franks on point...

Branding/web advertising/etc are things that the gun companies are woefully lacking in. The ones who do get it, usually get big (Look at Magpul, AAC, TAD gear, GAP, etc). The ones who don't languish, <span style="font-weight: bold">or worse yet, get involved in internet culture and say/do something stupid and kill their company. </span>

</div></div>

That's the worst to watch. A guy has a great product and advertises himself as being a tool or over hypes his product. In their defense, many times subtle posts are misinterpreted and the product owner goes postal. It would be better served to PM the guy that made the subtle post and clarify their meaning.

I can't imagine how much money and credibility the owners of some companies cost themselves by internet battles. It's difficult to watch even though it does have an entertainment value. Kinda like TV reality shows.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Modern guns, ancient marketing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Hon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Franks on point...

Branding/web advertising/etc are things that the gun companies are woefully lacking in. The ones who do get it, usually get big (Look at Magpul, AAC, TAD gear, GAP, etc). The ones who don't languish, <span style="font-weight: bold">or worse yet, get involved in internet culture and say/do something stupid and kill their company. </span>

</div></div>

That's the worst to watch. A guy has a great product and advertises himself as being a tool or over hypes his product. In their defense, many times subtle posts are misinterpreted and the product owner goes postal. It would be better served to PM the guy that made the subtle post and clarify their meaning.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I can't imagine how much money and credibility the owners of some companies cost themselves by internet battles. It's difficult to watch even though it does have an entertainment value. Kinda like TV reality shows.</span> </div></div>

I know there's a couple companies that I won't do business with any more because of a lack of people skills demonstrated by internet behavior. It's not like you have to use Axe body spray-style commercials to set yourself apart. Ads properly representing your company's philosophy with products that deliver on those expectations are 90% of the game. If you're a mass producer, talk about affordability. If you're a high end producer, talk about dependability and accuracy. The only thing worse than bad advertising is good advertising on products that don't live up to the expectations. You disappoint a customer who has paid $3k for a gun and you won't see him again.