Modifications to a factory 700

[XTR]

I've got a stock 700 VLS in 308 w/ a 26" barrel. I use it for hunting and a little paper punching, but on paper it's a bit annoying. As it sits today it barely shoots 1MOA with hand load hunting rounds (150sgk's). Some days it's just over an MOA others it's just under, all it all it's about a 1MOA gun. The long tube is nice because I can get good velocities w/o loading to the top of the charts. I'm eventually going to send it off to have the action trued and get some barrel work done. It has very few rounds through it, less than 200.

My question is should I spring for a Rock barrel, or just get the stock barrel cut back a little and re-chambered? I don't want to put a big AMU contour tube on it, it's heavy enough hunting with the stock varmint contour. What kind of accuracy can I expect from a re-chambered factory barrel on a blue printed action?

If I get a rock I'll probably go with something in a varmint contour and fluted to cut down on weight.

 

[Dionis]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

i would thru factory remington barrel away, after i saw this video thru Borescope
I have 22" Bartlein 5R barrel on my rig and i love it ,it cleans so easy...
You can expect sub MOA (or less) accuracy from premium barrel, blue printed action and and bedding job on the stock...

 

[RobG]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

Hunting ammo isn't exactly "match grade" ammo. You may want to try and load some with match grade type bullets before dropping coin on a new barrel. Could try some pillars and bedding if not already done.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hunting ammo isn't exactly "match grade" ammo. You may want to try and load some with match grade type bullets before dropping coin on a new barrel. Could try some pillars and bedding if not already done. </div></div>

+1

I can't remember if the VLS stock has the pressure point or not. You should test and see if your barrel is free floated and bed it in some manner before you spend the $. Try 168 or 175 gr. SMKs as was also suggested.

 

[Notso]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

Disagree with D-ice above. You don't need a custom barrel for the gun to shoot well, unless something is wrong with it. To improve accuracy I would start with (in somewhat of a descending order assuming YOU are capable of Sub MOA consistency):

1. Your loads. I've never really heard of 150 SGKs being known for precision accuracy. If you're interested in punching paper, try some 168 or 175 SMKs or 168 AMAXs. Also what powder, brass etc are you using? Finally, how are you measuring your powder charges? Weighing or throwing? Using the right bullets and tuning your loads will most likely drop you well below MOA alone.

2. Optics and mounts. Will the scope hold zero and are the mounts torqued properly and not moving?

3. Upgrade your stock. A decent stock (and maybe a bedding job) to replace the marginal OEM stocks often show immediate results without a huge investment.

4. Look at getting a muzzle brake. Often people have a psychological block from anticipating recoil. Yes, with perfect fundamentals, a .308 is tame. But I know both my accruacy and enjoyment of shooting my Light SPS-T went way up after putting a brake on. It was ok before, it is a joy to shoot now. While you're getting the barrel threaded, have the gunsmith re-crown the muzzle while he's at it.

5. If all else fails or you still want/need more - then a barrel rechamber and true (along with a re-crown) while definitely tighten things up and still use your factory barrel. Everyone bitches about Rem factory barrels, but honestly mine is a hammer. I had SAC do a rechamber, true and re-crown and it went from a .6-.75 MOA gun to a sub 1/2 MOA gun with occasional sub .4s when I do my part. Still has the factory barrel. I went this route rather than a full custom barrel because I still had lots of life left on it and I figured that I'd rather shoot out a factory barrel while I gained trigger time rather than jumping right to a custom barrel before my own skills were up to par.

Again, all of the above is subject to your own skills. If YOU are not a sub MOA shooter yet, buying more expensive tools will not make you better. Nohing replaces trigger time. Unless you have a lemon, the Rem 700s should shoot very well if you concentrate on the above steps.

My unprofessional $.02

 

[XTR]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

I understand about the ammo.

The VLS stock has a pressure point, but it's not in one. It really shot like crap in that stock. It's torqued in a B&C A2 now.


The ogive my Chris Mathews 308 is 2.250 to the lands with a 175 SMK, this rifle is 2.325, that's .075 longer. This thing has a throat like a porn star. I know a 150sgk isn't nearly as long as a 175smk, but when I checked the throat with a 150 the mouth is 1/2 way down the boat tail. The best I could measure it the ogive on the 150 is at 2.355 or better. The longest I can really seat a 150 is 2.263 to the ogive, so the closest I get is .092, that's a long jump. The bullet is clear of the brass before it hits the lands.

I've got the feeling that the stock tube is getting tossed, but I though I'd ask what others might have seen.

Edit:

I can shoot .5 or better with my Longshot Rifles 308. In this case it's the rifle, not me.

 

[Charlie Papa]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

I agree with Notso. Remington barrels are hammer forged and quite good. Remington factory chambers are made to shoot anything that any knucklehead might try to shoot in it to keep them from suffering a lawsuit. A barrel setback, squaring the receiver face, bolt face, and bolt lugs by a good smith will get your rifle shooting very well if you do your part with the handloads and behind the trigger. Don't discount the barrel just because it's "factory." Save the expensive barrel for when you've shot that one out.

 

[Heronion]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

+1 at what Charlie and Notso said. I've never personally owned a 700, but a friend of mine had one that consistently shot 0.75 MOA with FGMM rounds. The ammo you're using may be the issue. I tried some 150gr in my Savage .308 and it shot about 2" at 100 yards. Went to 168gr factory 7.62x51 that is intended for M1A use and it immediately dropped to 1" at 100 yards. With match ammo it's consistently a sub-MOA gun with the factory barrel.

 

[MikeTz]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

I have a Remington 700 VLSS (thumbhole stock) in .223 and it consistently shoots sub-MOA. I shoot off a front rest and rear bag, use a Nightforce scope, and use Black Hills 52g Match HPBT shells. The only modification to the factory configuration was the addition of a Jewell trigger. The trigger did help me close my groupings and it was not all that expensive.

 

[XTR]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

I may drop some of my hand load 175s that I'm shooting in my other rifle in it and see what it shoots.

This is going to be a hunting rifle but I want to be confident that it will hit where I aimed it. I may play with some of the 150s in my LSR and see if I can get them to group from a rifle I know shoots well and make up my mind from there.

I really like the idea of getting the VLS barrel re-chambered to fit what I shoot and save myself $450. I hate the idea of throwing away what is effectively a brand new barrel. On the other hand, while I've got it at the smiths $450 isn't that much more to put on a Rock barrel that I know will shoot bug holes if I do my part on the back end.

 

[mcfred]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

I re-chambered a cheap 26" remington 7mm Mag take off barrel to 7mm WSM. The factory chamber was pretty crooked, the tenon was off-center relative to the bore, and it was easy to see that the throat was not concentric just by looking down the bore from the breach at the start of the rifling. So I'd guess that there's probably some accuracy to be had by re-chambering the barrel, but if you're paying a lot for a gunsmith to do the work it may be better to spend a little extra and start with a match grade blank.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

I would only chamber a new hand lapped barrel. Factory barrels aren't worth the time and money. Spending $500+ dollars to squeeze another .1-.2" out of a gun is not the way I would spend my money. I'd rather spend another $325 and have that expensive labor invested in a REAL BARREL...chuck the $50 Remington barrel. Like I've said before...you can't make a 1hole gun out of a .5" barrel. Too often factory barrels have inherent stresses in them that show when the heat up. I had a factory gun that would only shoot the first 5 rounds straight then everything else was a cluster after it heated up. My money is better spent on quality parts.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

As has been said, Remington barrels are actually (usually) pretty good, it is the chambering etc.. that sometimes fails.

Mark at short action customs does a tune up on a Remington using the factory tube. He checks the tube forst to see if it is worthwhile. He has turned some SPS tacticals and Varmints in to outstanding shooters.
FWIW, Tac-Ops used to have a 700P tune up package using the factory tube also.

Remington factory barrel will shoot, unfortunatly, it sometimes takes an investment to get them that way.

Consider this though: By the time you pay to have the action and bolt trued, the original barrel set back, reinstalled and re chambered, you are only about 100 to 150 bucks shy of having an aftermarket match grade barrel installed.

 

[XTR]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Consider this though: By the time you pay to have the action and bolt trued, the original barrel set back, reinstalled and re chambered, you are only about 100 to 150 bucks shy of having an aftermarket match grade barrel installed. </div></div>


I got that part. I also realize it's a 308, and shooting out the barrel may take a few years. It's not like its a burner that I'll kill in a year so what ever I do I may have for a very long time, and the though of getting it done right while it's there weighs in too. It just kills me to toss new parts over the side.

I need to do some bullet comparisons and see where it really is and then I'll make up my mind.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Consider this though: By the time you pay to have the action and bolt trued, the original barrel set back, reinstalled and re chambered, you are only about 100 to 150 bucks shy of having an aftermarket match grade barrel installed. </div></div>


I got that part. I also realize it's a 308, and shooting out the barrel may take a few years. It's not like its a burner that I'll kill in a year so what ever I do I may have for a very long time, and the though of getting it done right while it's there weighs in too. It just kills me to toss new parts over the side.

I need to do some bullet comparisons and see where it really is and then I'll make up my mind. </div></div>

Sell the take off parts on EE. Somebody will give you something for them.

 

[BigMahi]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

Yes, sell that factory barrel... to me! Haha. I personally don't mind factory barrels. They're cheap but clean them out with a little JB bore paste and just shoot and clean when necessary - don't be surprised if right around 400 rounds it becomes a consistent sub-moa gun.

 

[cp3head]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

If you are contemplating having the action trued up, then change the barrel at the same time, otherwise you are only doing it halfway. If you have a gunsmith locally that you trust, take your gun to them and have them take a look at it and then make some suggestions. They see more than we do and can give you their two cents. Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[carbinero]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

Did you float the B&C?

 

[XTR]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: carbinero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you float the B&C? </div></div>

The stock Remington varmint contour is floated all the way down. I didn't have to do anything.

 

[boudin]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I need to do some bullet comparisons and see where it really is and then I'll make up my mind. </div></div>

Considering the ammount of jump you're having to work with, have you tried any of the Berger hunting VLDs? Maybe they'd respond a little better to the gap.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/vld-bullets-accuracy-1.php

Also, I know you said its torqued into a B&C, but have you considered bedding it? It's a do-able job if you're fairly savy with your hands and, the way I see it, could only help.

Lastly, how's the trigger? I know when I swapped my 5.5 lb x-mark for the Shilen I have now, I saw a notable decrease in my group sizes.. especially further out.

 

[XTR]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

Took my VLS to the range today with some new loads to do a bit of research.


Things I found out.

My VLS will shoot 175 SMKs pretty well. I used them to get dialed in. After I got settled in it was shooting sub MOA with my target load.


165 SGKs

My VLS shoots well with 165SGKs over Varget. In fact my groups at 200 yds were right at .5 to .75 MOA, and that's shooting with a 12x Bushy, not a target scope.

My LSR shoots them even better, in case I ever want to drag a 15lb rifle into the woods to hunt. It shot 3/8 MOA with two of the loads and 1/2 with a third. (I know what my hunting bullet is now, 2690-2700 fps is good enough for white tails)



The 24" Rock barrel on my LSR is faster than the stock 26" varmint barrel by at least 25fps with pretty much any bullet with the same load.

150 GMX don't shoot for crap in a 308. A note on these. With the plastic tips this is a very long bullet. To load even 45gn of Varget it was crunching powder when seated at 2.835 OAL. There was a whole lot of bullet in the case. THe edge of the brass was between the cannelures. That is the max length to fit my internal mags, and a hunting bullet needs to do that. I was shooting my VLS against my Longshot Chris Mathews rifle today with duplicate loads, they wont even group out of my LSR. Maybe they work in some of the magnums, but not in a 308, at least not for me. Neither of my rifles would group them better than an MOA.

I'm going to cross post this on a thread I started about this bullet last year. Maybe someone else can shoot them but I'm not wasting any more powder on them.

Happy with my hunting rifle now.

 

[bobbye]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

I have a 28 inch rock 300wm. It shoots 200 fps faster than the Navy 24inch 300wm.
I talked to a Smith who I went to high school with about a build I had in mind. I asked him about a Lawton action. He told me that he would take a Rem 700 action and work it to the point that in the field that I would not be able to tell the difference. He told me that in order to shoot a long way you should have a square action, a good barrell,(rock barrels cost $295+ shipping),good trigger, and the right scope. Then burn a bunch of powder. Nothing like the ding steel makes at 500yds.

 

[patriotoutlaw]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

If you want to truly accurize this rifle, the barrel must be removed from the reciever. At that point, you are $ ahead to replace the barrel. If you are not looking to do that, then shoot hell out of it as it sits, then when you are ready to do a build, go for it. If you decide to keep the status quo, shooting ammo your gun likes and removing that pressure point off your stock would be a good place to start.

 

[XTR]

Re: Modifications to a factory 700

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patriotoutlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want to truly accurize this rifle, the barrel must be removed from the reciever. At that point, you are $ ahead to replace the barrel. If you are not looking to do that, then shoot hell out of it as it sits, then when you are ready to do a build, go for it. If you decide to keep the status quo, shooting ammo your gun likes and removing that pressure point off your stock would be a good place to start. </div></div>

You must have missed the post above where I said the action is torqued into a B&C A2 and the barrel is completely free floated. I know that bedding it might get me a little, maybe, but torqued down in an aluminum bedding block is pretty stable. So I think I'm a bit beyond starting.

I'm quite happy with the VLS rifle today. I figured out that the problem in the past was ammo. I've got it shooting 1/2 to 3/4 MOA groups is plenty fine for hunting. Loading 165s will get me plenty of oomph out to 400 yda, and I don't plan to shoot deer any further than that. I have a LSR built 308 for comps, and in another 2000 rounds or so I'll send it back to Chris Mathews and get it re-barreled.