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Most forgiving optic to get behind on AR

Glassaholic

Optical theorist and conjecturer
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Nov 30, 2012
    8,111
    9,349
    Panhandle, FL
    Strange question (maybe) here, a friend of mine has some disabilities which affect his motor skills somewhat which makes it difficult for him to get behind his AR-15 right now. Currently he has a cheap 3x prism sight and I'm thinking due to the nature of prism sights (finicky eyebox and short eye relief) that may not be the best optic for him. Thought I'd reach out to the community and ask if anyone has similar experience or knows guys with similar experience and what has worked best for them. I would convince him to go with a nice 1x like an Aimpoint, but he would prefer a magnified optic... Would he encounter similar difficulties with an ACOG or maybe a nice LPVO like the Vortex GenII E 1-6 would be better?
     
    An ACOG is definitely going to be more finicky in the eyebox.
    I had a feeling that would be the case, but have not experienced one myself. I bought some Sig Bravo5’s to play with and they are interesting, best glass I’ve seen from Sig color wise, pretty neutral and huge FOV but wish they had a different mount and QD option.
    A Holosun 509t would be a cheaper experiment to see if he likes it. If he doesn't it will always have a purpose on a pistol or something.
    Like I said I think he wants a magnified optic, but RDS going to be the most forgiving.
    It sounds like you moved out of the Black Forest but if you're still local I'd loan you a 509t on a mount to see if he likes it
    I did, moved out of state last year, something we had planned on doing but 2020 shenanigans moved up our timeframe and looking at interest rates now we certainly could not have done it now.
     
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    TA33 ACOG. Still a 3x prism but huge eye relief, Bill.

    Let me check my PLXc 1-8; I don’t have a Razor IIe to compare it to, but I’ve been really happy with the eyebox and eye relief.
     
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    I just went through this and the Vortex Razor G2-E would be my vote for huge eye box (easy to get behind) with a very bright dot. If budget is a concern, the Burris RT6 1-6x is really amazing for the price. Good through the glass review of several optics here.
     
    In magnified optics, if you can tolerate a Leupold scope, their eyeboxes are very forgiving across the line, & more than most.

    If........................

    MM
     
    TA11 has one of the most forgiving eye boxes I have been behind on an AR. I got behind one of the Razor LPVOs and it wasn't bad either but I don't remember which gen or model it was. I still prefer the TA11 over any LPVO....
     
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    TA11 has one of the most forgiving eye boxes I have been behind on an AR. I got behind one of the Razor LPVOs and it wasn't bad either but I don't remember which gen or model it was. I still prefer the TA11 over any LPVO....
    So narrow eye relief but forgiving eyebox? Is that the consensus?
     
    No. TA-11 has much more eye relief than the TA-31, much much better eyebox. It is a larger optic and is 3.5 x. Great .308 ACOG.
    I've been wanting to do an ACOG build (someday) and this is good info. Thanks. Had one in Iraq (TA31 if I remember right), but didn't really appreciate it for what it was (also, wasn't my primary weapon).
     
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    So narrow eye relief but forgiving eyebox? Is that the consensus?
    I take it you have never been behind a TA-11? It has generous eye relief/box whatever you want to call it. I can get behind the optic quickly, not perfect and still see great. It’s definitely not tight Or finicky.
     
    Last edited:
    I take you have never been behind a TA-11? It has a generous eye box…
    I have not, I was in the military before ACOG's were around , we used iron sights and optics with glass were only on snipers rifles ;) That being said prism scopes never really interested me and I've always understood them to be somewhat finicky to get behind; however, my thread is not for me, but for a friend with disabilities so wanting to be more open minded to what is out there that may help him shoot better as he has a hard time getting a good cheek weld (he sometimes struggles with his motor skills). He also shoots out to 100 yards and doesn't plan on shooting further any time soon, so even though he'd prefer a magnified optic I may try to convince him to go with a very forgiving optic like an Aimpoint T2 and if he really wants magnification he can pick up a 3x magnifier. But if something like a TA11 or TA33 would actually be "better" for him, I am open to that but since I have no personal experience I'm just going off responses here (and elsewhere) which seem to be somewhat conflicting.
     
    and if he really wants magnification he can pick up a 3x magnifier.
    If he has motor impairment preventing good consistent cheek weld, I promise a magnifier is not the way to go. I’ve found them very finicky with terrible eye relief, yes even God’s G33.

    Edit: just thought of something, re: cheek weld. What about taller mounts? The “chin weld” type or higher. Perhaps that might be something to look into regardless of the optic he ends up with; may be more comfortable with a more heads-up type of positioning.
     
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    Edit: just thought of something, re: cheek weld. What about taller mounts? The “chin weld” type or higher. Perhaps that might be something to look into regardless of the optic he ends up with; may be more comfortable with a more heads-up type of positioning.
    I have asked him to do some natural hold exercises and let me know where his eye naturally falls and am curious if a higher mount may be of benefit to him as well.
     
    I just went through this and the Vortex Razor G2-E would be my vote for huge eye box (easy to get behind) with a very bright dot. If budget is a concern, the Burris RT6 1-6x is really amazing for the price. Good through the glass review of several optics here.

    nailed it, end thread
     
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    I shot / tried a TA11 in 3Gun back in the day. Gave it an honest account. Although much better than the TA31, it does not hold a candle to a Vortex Razor G2 1-6 or similar. With the Razor you almost don’t see the scope body. It’s like looking through a window. Ezzy Pezzy.


    Another good through the optic review
     
    $$$ Elcan?

    Otherwise Id start with a Romeo5/T2 or Eotech (the larger square may help keep dot visible). Let him use it for awhile to get better at learning good mechanics/head placement and retention (to the degree allowable)...

    Then can always sell/upgrade if he gets into it and gets to the point of "I wish I had more/better XYZ" - then you also have a better idea of what magnified optics would be 'in his wheelhouse'

    *Majority of his shooting done on a bench or is he still able to do prone? Ive been impressed with the gun community with regard to trying to get disabled people to enjoy the fun of shooting so if he has that hunger Im confident he can 'succeed'
     
    $$$ Elcan?

    Otherwise Id start with a Romeo5/T2 or Eotech (the larger square may help keep dot visible). Let him use it for awhile to get better at learning good mechanics/head placement and retention (to the degree allowable)...

    Then can always sell/upgrade if he gets into it and gets to the point of "I wish I had more/better XYZ" - then you also have a better idea of what magnified optics would be 'in his wheelhouse'

    *Majority of his shooting done on a bench or is he still able to do prone? Ive been impressed with the gun community with regard to trying to get disabled people to enjoy the fun of shooting so if he has that hunger Im confident he can 'succeed'
    He is in a wheelchair so no prone
     
    these are good starting points that are easy to get behind. Look at the dark lord of optics YouTube channel on lpvo’s that he has reviewed, https://www.youtube.com/@DarkLordOfOptics/videos

    SteinDr P4xi 1-4
    Delta Stryker 1-6
    gen2e razor 1-6


    if you want ffp
    ive heard good thing on the SAI 1-6
    PA PLx 1-8

    trijicon accupower 1-8 The 1-8 trijicon can be difficult but not horrible, if the price is right.
     
    Last edited:
    The Steiner T5Xi 1-5x24 and the P4xi 1-4x24 are good choices. I went with the T5Xi for the +1 magnification level.

    I found that the BDC reticle on the T5Xi is accurate out to 500 yards for the 62gr 5.56 ammo that i was using, on that day...

    That said I'm not fond of the thicker stadia lines on the T5Xi 1-5x24. Thick lines together with the low magnification makes it difficult, at least for me, to shoot tight groups. Then again, that's not what my rifle is setup for. I have been checking out new 1-10 scopes as they hit the market, but have not found a good reason to make the switch. As this scope does meet my needs.

    I started out with a Aimpoint T1 on the rifle and had considered adding a magnifier. But I found that I needed a reticle if I wanted to hit targets out past the zero distance with first shot impacts. That's the main reason I went to a LPVO.

    On my wife's AR, she's just using a Aimpoint T2. She's more concerned with the weight of the rife and only uses it to shoot out to 200 yards max.

    One thing to keep in mind about the LPVOs is that the lowest magnification on some is not 1, but just slightly higher than 1. This will can cause some distraction or eye fatigue when shooting with both eyes open.
     
    If he's in a wheelchair why the low-powered optics? Something 3-15 would be more useful for your average target shooter/varmint hunter.
    But he’s not an average target/varmint hunter, he only shoots to 100 yards and self defense and paper is the intended purpose.
     
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    On my wife's AR, she's just using a Aimpoint T2. She's more concerned with the weight of the rife and only uses it to shoot out to 200 yards max.
    That is the direction I’m leaning in for my recommendation. He wants to be able to shoot without bipod so keeping weight down is important.
     
    Thoughts on T2 vs MRO?

    Observations On The Effect Of Parallax Error
    When Shooting With An Aimpoint Comp M5 And A Trijicon MRO



    aimpoint_compm5_02_resized_b-1298272-jpg.7537566







    Some manufacturers of red-dot sights have made claims that their red-dot sights are “parallax free“. Most of us are already aware that this is simply not true at all distances. Inherent parallax error with a red-dot sight is typically greatest at CQB distances (MOA wise) and decreases as the distance to the target increases.

    In this ballistic exercise we’ll be looking at the amount of parallax error occuring during objective, controlled, live-fire testing at the distances of 7 yards, 15 yards, 25 yards and 50 yards when shooting with an Aimpoint Comp M5 and a Trijicon MRO mounted on a precision AR-15. The Aimpoint Comp M5 has a 2 MOA red dot, as does the Trijicon MRO.

    All shooting for this exercise was conducted from my bench-rest set-up using one of my precision AR-15s. This AR-15 has a 20” Lothar Walther barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber and 1:8” twist and it routinely produces 0.75 MOA 10-shot groups at 100 yards (with a high magnification scope). The ammunition used for this exercise was one of my match-grade hand-loads topped with the Sierra 52 grain MatchKing. Wind conditions on the range were monitored using a Wind Probe. The set-up was very similar to that pictured below.



    benchrest_krieger_rifle_02_jpg-1297383-jpg.7537567




    The barrel . . .



    lothar_walther_barrel_21_resized-1297387-jpg.7537569




    lothar_barrel_crown_02_resized-1297385-jpg.7537571




    lothar_walther_barrel_free_floated_05-1297388-jpg.7537572




    10-shot group at 100 yards . . .


    lothar_barrel__control_group_77_smk_meas-1297384-jpg.7537578





    The Wind Probe . . .



    wind_probe_2016_01_framed-jpg.7537580






    The Details


    The methodology for this ballistic exercise was as follows . . .

    Shooting from the bench-rest set-up with the Aimpoint Comp M5 atop the precision AR-15 at the initial distance of 7 yards, an 8-shot control group was fired with the red-dot centered in the sight window. Next, an 8-shot parallax test-group was fired in the following manner:

    2 shots fired with the red-dot positioned in the extreme 12 o’clock position of the sight window.

    2 shots fired with the red-dot positioned in the extreme 3 o’clock position of the sight window.

    2 shots fired with the red-dot positioned in the extreme 6 o’clock position of the sight window.

    2 shots fired with the red-dot positioned in the extreme 9 o’clock position of the sight window.


    Additional 8-shot parallax test-groups were then fired sequentially at 15 yards, 25 yards and 50 yards in the manner described above. This simple methodology is illustrated in the two pics shown below. The solid black dot on the target was the point-of-aim.



    The 8-shot control group at 7 yards . . .


    8_shot_control_group_at_7_yards_1b_resiz-1297684-jpg.7537581





    The 8-shot parallax test-group at 7 yards . . .



    8_shot_parallax_test_group_at_7_yards_01-1297685-jpg.7537582





    Aimpoint Comp M5 Results

    The 8-shot control group fired at 7 yards had an extreme spread of 0.039”, which at 7 yards is 0.53 MOA. The extreme spreads of the parallax test-groups are shown in the table below.



    ampoint_compm5_02_resized_b-1297942-jpg.7537585







    Trijicon MRO Results

    trijicon_mro_rds_21-1315992-jpg.7537586





    I repeated the ballistic exercise described above using a 2nd-generation Trijicon MRO with a 2 MOA red-dot. The results are shown in the table below.


    trijicon_mro_parallax-1315991-jpg.7537588







    I also conducted the 50 yard portion of the parallax test using another 2nd-generation Trijicon MRO with a 2 MOA red-dot. The results were nearly identical to that of the first MRO. The extreme spread of the 8-shot parallax test-group was 7.46”, which at 50 yards is 14.3 MOA.


    Comparisons

    The tables and graphs below show the results from both the Aimpoint Comp M5 and the Trijicon MRO, side-by-side, for comparison.

    Results in minutes of angle . . .


    parallax_comparison_table_in_moa_21b-1315988-jpg.7537589




    parallax_error_graf_in_moa_logarithmic_3-1315990-jpg.7537590











    Results in inches . . .



    parallax_comparison_table_01_in_inches-1315987-jpg.7537591




    parallax_error_graf_in_inches_polynomial-1315989-jpg.7537592





    Per Aimpoint, the objective lens of the Aimpoint T2 has a diameter of 18mm. Per Trijicon, the objective lens of the MRO has a diameter of 25mm. Therefore, the objective lens of the MRO is 1.38 times larger than the objective lens of the T2, yet the parallax error of the MRO at 50 yards (7.73”) is 8.3 times larger than the parallax error of the T2 (0.93”) at 50 yards.




    ......



    Aimpoint T2 Parallax Error At 50 Yards

    aimpoint_t2_002-1459940.jpg




    An 8-shot parallax test-group fired from 50 yards using an Aimpoint T2 had an extreme spread of 0.907", which at 50 yards equates to 1.7 MOA.



    ...

    The target shown below is the actual 50 yard parallax-test target for one of the Gen-2 Trjicon MROs that I tested. The parallax error is 7.7 inches. The target also clearly demonstrates the asymmetrical parallax pattern of the MRO. I’d like to see someone do the trigonometry for those "hold-offs", at various distances, on the fly, in the urban prone position.



    mro_parallax_test_target_at_50_yards_lot-1965760.jpg




    Now, let’s superimpose the above parallax-test target on a realistic training target at 50 yards, for both a head-shot and an upper thorax shot.



    parallax_test_target_for_trijicon_mro_su-1965766.jpg




    That’s a whole lot of missed shots, and those shots were taken with a precision AR-15, using match-grade hand-loads, shooting from a bench-rest set-up. Now substitute a chrome-lined, NATO chambered barrel using factory ammunition and shooting from over/around/under a hard-cover position and the amount of missed shots drastically increases.



    The next graphic shows the 50 yard parallax-test target for the Aimpoint T2 superimposed on the realistic training target along with the MRO.



    parallax_test_targets_for_trijicon_mro_a-1968946.jpg





    …..
     
    Last edited:
    Burris RT6, no one is going to show a better scope under 800
    Wait for any major holiday and scoop this guy up on sale for $7-800.
     
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    Observations On The Effect Of Parallax Error
    When Shooting With An Aimpoint Comp M5 And A Trijicon MRO



    aimpoint_compm5_02_resized_b-1298272-jpg.7537566







    Some manufacturers of red-dot sights have made claims that their red-dot sights are “parallax free“. Most of us are already aware that this is simply not true at all distances. Inherent parallax error with a red-dot sight is typically greatest at CQB distances (MOA wise) and decreases as the distance to the target increases.

    In this ballistic exercise we’ll be looking at the amount of parallax error occuring during objective, controlled, live-fire testing at the distances of 7 yards, 15 yards, 25 yards and 50 yards when shooting with an Aimpoint Comp M5 and a Trijicon MRO mounted on a precision AR-15. The Aimpoint Comp M5 has a 2 MOA red dot, as does the Trijicon MRO.

    All shooting for this exercise was conducted from my bench-rest set-up using one of my precision AR-15s. This AR-15 has a 20” Lothar Walther barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber and 1:8” twist and it routinely produces 0.75 MOA 10-shot groups at 100 yards (with a high magnification scope). The ammunition used for this exercise was one of my match-grade hand-loads topped with the Sierra 52 grain MatchKing. Wind conditions on the range were monitored using a Wind Probe. The set-up was very similar to that pictured below.



    benchrest_krieger_rifle_02_jpg-1297383-jpg.7537567




    The barrel . . .



    lothar_walther_barrel_21_resized-1297387-jpg.7537569




    lothar_barrel_crown_02_resized-1297385-jpg.7537571




    lothar_walther_barrel_free_floated_05-1297388-jpg.7537572




    10-shot group at 100 yards . . .


    lothar_barrel__control_group_77_smk_meas-1297384-jpg.7537578





    The Wind Probe . . .



    wind_probe_2016_01_framed-jpg.7537580






    The Details


    The methodology for this ballistic exercise was as follows . . .

    Shooting from the bench-rest set-up with the Aimpoint Comp M5 atop the precision AR-15 at the initial distance of 7 yards, an 8-shot control group was fired with the red-dot centered in the sight window. Next, an 8-shot parallax test-group was fired in the following manner:

    2 shots fired with the red-dot positioned in the extreme 12 o’clock position of the sight window.

    2 shots fired with the red-dot positioned in the extreme 3 o’clock position of the sight window.

    2 shots fired with the red-dot positioned in the extreme 6 o’clock position of the sight window.

    2 shots fired with the red-dot positioned in the extreme 9 o’clock position of the sight window.


    Additional 8-shot parallax test-groups were then fired sequentially at 15 yards, 25 yards and 50 yards in the manner described above. This simple methodology is illustrated in the two pics shown below. The solid black dot on the target was the point-of-aim.



    The 8-shot control group at 7 yards . . .


    8_shot_control_group_at_7_yards_1b_resiz-1297684-jpg.7537581





    The 8-shot parallax test-group at 7 yards . . .



    8_shot_parallax_test_group_at_7_yards_01-1297685-jpg.7537582





    Aimpoint Comp M5 Results

    The 8-shot control group fired at 7 yards had an extreme spread of 0.039”, which at 7 yards is 0.53 MOA. The extreme spreads of the parallax test-groups are shown in the table below.



    ampoint_compm5_02_resized_b-1297942-jpg.7537585







    Trijicon MRO Results

    trijicon_mro_rds_21-1315992-jpg.7537586





    I repeated the ballistic exercise described above using a 2nd-generation Trijicon MRO with a 2 MOA red-dot. The results are shown in the table below.


    trijicon_mro_parallax-1315991-jpg.7537588







    I also conducted the 50 yard portion of the parallax test using another 2nd-generation Trijicon MRO with a 2 MOA red-dot. The results were nearly identical to that of the first MRO. The extreme spread of the 8-shot parallax test-group was 7.46”, which at 50 yards is 14.3 MOA.


    Comparisons

    The tables and graphs below show the results from both the Aimpoint Comp M5 and the Trijicon MRO, side-by-side, for comparison.

    Results in minutes of angle . . .


    parallax_comparison_table_in_moa_21b-1315988-jpg.7537589




    parallax_error_graf_in_moa_logarithmic_3-1315990-jpg.7537590











    Results in inches . . .



    parallax_comparison_table_01_in_inches-1315987-jpg.7537591




    parallax_error_graf_in_inches_polynomial-1315989-jpg.7537592





    Per Aimpoint, the objective lens of the Aimpoint T2 has a diameter of 18mm. Per Trijicon, the objective lens of the MRO has a diameter of 25mm. Therefore, the objective lens of the MRO is 1.38 times larger than the objective lens of the T2, yet the parallax error of the MRO at 50 yards (7.73”) is 8.3 times larger than the parallax error of the T2 (0.93”) at 50 yards.




    ......



    Aimpoint T2 Parallax Error At 50 Yards

    aimpoint_t2_002-1459940.jpg




    An 8-shot parallax test-group fired from 50 yards using an Aimpoint T2 had an extreme spread of 0.907", which at 50 yards equates to 1.7 MOA.



    ...

    The target shown below is the actual 50 yard parallax-test target for one of the Gen-2 Trjicon MROs that I tested. The parallax error is 7.7 inches. The target also clearly demonstrates the asymmetrical parallax pattern of the MRO. I’d like to see someone do the trigonometry for those "hold-offs", at various distances, on the fly, in the urban prone position.



    mro_parallax_test_target_at_50_yards_lot-1965760.jpg




    Now, let’s superimpose the above parallax-test target on a realistic training target at 50 yards, for both a head-shot and an upper thorax shot.



    parallax_test_target_for_trijicon_mro_su-1965766.jpg




    That’s a whole lot of missed shots, and those shots were taken with a precision AR-15, using match-grade hand-loads, shooting from a bench-rest set-up. Now substitute a chrome-lined, NATO chambered barrel using factory ammunition and shooting from over/around/under a hard-cover position and the amount of missed shots drastically increases.



    The next graphic shows the 50 yard parallax-test target for the Aimpoint T2 superimposed on the realistic training target along with the MRO.



    parallax_test_targets_for_trijicon_mro_a-1968946.jpg





    …..
    Seems to be a convincing argument against the MRO for parallax issues which certain could affect his POI. Always seem to come back to the Aimpoint
     
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    Seems to be a convincing argument against the MRO for parallax issues which certain could affect his POI. Always seem to come back to the Aimpoint
    I use both. If a forgiving eyebox what you're after, the MRO wins.

    With regard to parallax between MRO and T2, its a little bit of apples to oranges. The MRO's larger objective means that when the dot is at the edge, it is farther from center than the T2 (Ilya confirmed that this variable makes comparison between the two somewhat less straightforward). Just today, I was in an awkward shooting position at work with the T2 and I could not find the dot. Had to adjust because the dot was "below" the objective lens when looking through the optic at the angle I came in at.

    I find that with the MRO, the dot is easier to pick up before I've completely mounted the rifle (or while in motion transitioning from low ready to on-target).

    In other words, in some situations, the Aimpoint's dot will be "unavailable" whereas the MRO's dot would be visible, even if it means you get a near miss due to parallax (which seems like an unlikely scenario to me). The Aimpoint's dot would be 9mm off center at the edge of its lens. The MRO's would be 12.5mm off center. The real question to answer would be: how much POI shift is there with the MRO when its dot is 9mm from center? If the MRO is still hitting at 9mm, then it ties the Aimpoint. If it can hit at 9.1mm, or 10mm, etc, then it beats the Aimpoint. But for now, we don't have that data.

    Others will certainly disagree with me on this (MRO is not typically regarded as on par with T2 by "the community"). All I can say is that I shoot at just as good with either. I've never missed because of the MRO. But I have (rarely) had a delay in finding the dot on the T2 in certain improvised shooting positions.
     
    Last edited:
    I briefly owned a Delta Stryker. I thought it was good for the money, but i remember the eye box was smaller than I had anticipated it being. It definitely required more staying directly in front of the piece than a Vortex razor or kahles k16i, at least for me.
     
    I briefly owned a Delta Stryker. I thought it was good for the money, but i remember the eye box was smaller than I had anticipated it being. It definitely required more staying directly in front of the piece than a Vortex razor or kahles k16i, at least for me.
    It is tighter then the two, but at its price it is a great scope.
     
    I use both. If a forgiving eyebox what you're after, the MRO wins.

    With regard to parallax between MRO and T2, its a little bit of apples to oranges. The MRO's larger objective means that when the dot is at the edge, it is farther from center than the T2 (Ilya confirmed that this variable makes comparison between the two somewhat less straightforward). Just today, I was in an awkward shooting position at work with the T2 and I could not find the dot. Had to adjust because the dot was "below" the objective lens when looking through the optic at the angle I came in at.

    I find that with the MRO, the dot is easier to pick up before I've completely mounted the rifle (or while in motion transitioning from low ready to on-target).

    In other words, in some situations, the Aimpoint's dot will be "unavailable" whereas the MRO's dot would be visible, even if it means you get a near miss due to parallax (which seems like an unlikely scenario to me). The Aimpoint's dot would be 9mm off center at the edge of its lens. The MRO's would be 12.5mm off center. The real question to answer would be: how much POI shift is there with the MRO when its dot is 9mm from center? If the MRO is still hitting at 9mm, then it ties the Aimpoint. If it can hit at 9.1mm, or 10mm, etc, then it beats the Aimpoint. But for now, we don't have that data.

    Others will certainly disagree with me on this (MRO is not typically regarded as on par with T2 by "the community"). All I can say is that I shoot at just as good with either. I've never missed because of the MRO. But I have (rarely) had a delay in finding the dot on the T2 in certain improvised shooting positions.
    Thank you for that and glad to have someone with personal experience with both, I think this at least makes the MRO something to consider especially for his purposes.
     
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    Late to the party, but ignore the ACOG recommendations. ACOG fanboys gotta ACOG and never want to admit that an adjustable diopter is something worth having and not present on an optic specced by the military for 20 year olds with perfect eyesight.

    If considering an LPVO don't go above 1-6 for a very forgiving eyebox. Any greater mag is overkill for 100y shooting.
     
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    I know its a pretty old post but I would be interested to know as well...

    So here is a little reference that might help others, all data comes from manufacturer's website.

    LPVO

    razor g2e 1-6 : 100mm
    vcog 1-8: 100mm
    vcog 1-6:100mm
    khales k18i : 95mm
    sai 6: 90mm
    razor g3 1-10: 90mm
    dual cc : 90mm
    p4xi : 89-100mm
    accupoint 1-4: 81mm


    Prism

    TA11: 61mm
    TA33: 50mm
    TA648: 69mm
    mepro x4: 40mm
    4x30i: 65mm
    6x36i: 65mm
    specteros 4x/ dr1x-4x: 70mm
    specteros 1.5x-6x: 70mm
    specter tr: 78.6mm/70.4mm/74.1mm

    I would take a massive grain of salt on some of these, for example I had some time behind DR1-4 and TA11 and find TA11 has slight better eye relief than the ELCAN at 4x lol.
     
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    TA33, I promise you this is the ACOG to get.

    The TA33 despite its age is a really good AR optic, Its like 8 oz, and easy to get behind, and almost poor people friendly. I grabbed a 1-8 Trijicon accupower a couple years ago, and while its a bit heavy, its easy to get behind, from what I hear, the new credo line has improved on the accupower.
     
    Thank you for that and glad to have someone with personal experience with both, I think this at least makes the MRO something to consider especially for his purposes.
    As an owner of an Aimpoint H1 and EOTech XPS2, I would also give the EOTech some consideration.

    If "finding the dot" is a major concern, the Holosun ACSS Vulcan reticle might be the best overall solution. The large outer ring is incredibly effective at drawing your eye to the center dot, even from extreme off-axis viewing. I had a chance to handle one at SHOT and I was impressed enough that I plan to pick one up for my Glock.
     
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