- Thread starter sniper79_98
- Start date
Are you going to get more gear later or is this like "I'm only buying this one thing for the foreseeable future " kind of thing?
Practice and learn to spot through your scope. Larger bullets are easier to spot misses. Most spotters use binos now due to more comfortable and larger fov generally
I'm loving my sig 2400. I already have a kestrel though so I tend to kind of check dope and all with it when I'm playing. Getting a good range quickly with dope is pretty sweet and of course there's a bino version too that would kind of cover all your bases.
I'm only buying this one thing for the foreseeable future lol. I’ve got a rangefinder that does what I need it to do. So, I guess the kestrel is out and I’m leaning towards binoculars? I think I read mirage just as well with an 15x bino as I could with a 45x spotter?
Yeah, I know right. If I had a dollar for every time I said "I'm not buying anything else for a long time".....
I'd have even more crap probably.....
So your range finder gives you dope or just a LRF?
Just a LRF. I always thought I’d go with a kestrel and applied ballistics software if I needed more?Yeah, I know right. If I had a dollar for every time I said "I'm not buying anything else for a long time".....
I'd have even more crap probably.....
So your range finder gives you dope or just a LRF?
If i was competing id say binos hands down. Just shooting for fun a kestrel. The phone apps are pretty decent and with good inputs work well. Being able to find targets and watch trace when others are shooting is very valuable.
That's a great way to go, and that's what I've been doing for a while. I bought the sig off a guy here and then finally put my data in it and started using it and just kind if discovered how much easier it was for me. The dope and tuning of your dope for the bullet with the profile is basically just like the kestrel so, I took my kestrel data and put it in the sig and it's been super easy to mess with and actually use. It's small and easy to carry ect.
I do just shoot for fun. I don’t compete. So, a anemometer may be more useful? I shoot 600 at the house but can get up to a mile. Thanks for your input as I have none of these lol.
Another can of worms 
. I’ll DEFINITELY do research on the sig now. Y’all are saying use this instead of a kestrel or in conjunction with a kestrel?
. I’ll DEFINITELY do research on the sig now. Y’all are saying use this instead of a kestrel or in conjunction with a kestrel? The sig stuff has environmentals too just so you know, but I haven't used that as much since I kind of cheat with my kestrel . You can use the sig line stuff pretty much like a kestrel but kestrel is something that's pretty nice to have too.
The whole point of that whole line of sig is to not have to have the kestrel. That said they make one that links with the kestrel as well and just gets data from it as well as the one that has AB and environmental built in which does not link with kestrel and works with an app on your phoneAnother can of worms
I’m seriously leaning towards the sig. It saves me from carrying a rangefinder and kestrel. I know the warranty is 5 years on their electronics. When it runs out, does anyone know if they’ll repair the unit? (I’ve got three razors and a razor rangefinder) peace of mind is nice.
Don't know about that one. I would think so but I suppose you could call em and ask about that.
I wanna say our lab jacks ( adjustable and useful as a rear bag at a quarter the cost ) , but the electronic ear phones that allow me to hear wheather or not I want to hear other shooters on the other end of the firing line cursing and hollering about bad groups who knew earphones could be so fun ..
The one piece of gear that increased my long range hit percentage the most was a spotter. I shoot on very flat ground and it was usually near impossible to see splash from a miss. With a spotter and a buddy, we could pick up trace and call corrections in real time. Then I got a digiscope adapter. I can shoot alone, press record, and watch the feedback on where I miss and make the corrections. Binoculars would do the same. Need a sturdy tripod.
Are you using your smart phone or a dedicated device for digiscoping?
I've been using a PhoneSkope case with my iPhone and Kowa 773. But I've been considering a dedicated device like these:
IPhone 13 with a phoneskope case. I haven’t seen a need to upgrade (translation: spend unnecessary money) bc I’ve been pretty pleased with the outcome so far. I zoom in to 2.5-3x on 4k, it gets rid of most of the vignetting and gives a good IQ.
After eyes and fingers intact, I'd say a good spotter. Get a good one and it'll serve you for a while.
And not fancy but still pricey, Kowa scopes we used at the SDM courses were great... They just worked. Clear, easy to spot trace/read mirage (despite no reticle on these) and 60x mag.
But a Leupold Mk4 with a reticle and 40x wouldn't be bad either. Maybe better now.
But a Leupold Mk4 with a reticle and 40x wouldn't be bad either. Maybe better now.
I would say a spotting scope from the standpoint of reading wind better. Not that I'm an expert but simply spending time at the range or back deck looking at mirage from various angles helps to understand what you are looking at. Get a manual DA chart, they are pretty accurate and once you can associate temp along with your area altitude, you can very close. Bino's if you hunt though-a good set.
You probably have a smart phone. This and balisticarc work very well.
weatherflow.com
Long Range Shooting Weather Meter
The best ballistic weather meter on the market and perfect accessory for long-range and precision shooting.
weatherflow.com For making hits at longer ranges, a spotting scope would likely be the most useful option of the three, as it provides greater magnification and clarity than binoculars, allowing you to see targets more clearly and identify details such as bullet impact. However, a kestrel could also be a valuable tool for making long-range hits, as it provides important environmental data such as wind speed and direction, which can significantly affect accuracy. Ultimately, the choice depends on your specific needs and preferences.
You could get a kestrel minus the solver and a bushnell spotter WITH a reticle in it for that much if you look around.
I'm never owning a spotter without a reticle in it.
The Leupold Mk4 with TMR reticle is good size, weight, and great glass for the job....but it's hard to get unless used for a grand.
I use a cheap as fuck anemometer that I used at my last job to check paint booths for air flow. It gouges wind speed every bit as good as a kestrel. Gives accurate temp too. My phone supplies whatever else I've ever needed.
If you aren't competing you don't need the best gear. But having good reliable gear is important.
I'm never owning a spotter without a reticle in it.
The Leupold Mk4 with TMR reticle is good size, weight, and great glass for the job....but it's hard to get unless used for a grand.
I use a cheap as fuck anemometer that I used at my last job to check paint booths for air flow. It gouges wind speed every bit as good as a kestrel. Gives accurate temp too. My phone supplies whatever else I've ever needed.
If you aren't competing you don't need the best gear. But having good reliable gear is important.
Kestrels are ok for wind where you are standing. But to read long wind, you need something that will let you watch mirage and roils and foliage, etc. downrange.
My argument would be to spend $1000 on upgrading your scope or getting a very, very good spotting scope or binos that have the right coatings and reticle so that you can spot wind signatures in the mirage… mil your targets at distance to get range… watch trace ( have your spotter watch trace), etc.
If you don’t have a spotter, get a scope that will let you do this. They are spendy, but the coatings concoctions on ZCO are unreal for doing your wind estimating. I am sure other Tier 1 scopes are close these days, too. Coatings technology is rapidly advancing.
Learn to range with reticle.
And take a class on wind reading. There are some good instructors out there. One was at PRE-21… ex AMU guy whose name escapes me. Excellent lecture!!
Once you have milling and wind reading down pat, the gear will sort of select itself. Or you will realize you don’t need it. I have not used my Kestrel in years. (In part because the little battery cover thingie broke off and they won’t get back to me to sell me a replacement.). But realized I just don’t need it Anymore. I can estimate wind ok where I am standing. Look at the trees, the grass, the mirage etc. and SWAG it pretty well. Wind reading does not need gear, it needs eyeballs and a good rifle scope. And experience/training.
Ranging can be done with a good scope. And spotting, well, unless you always shoot with a spotter…. A spotting scope is sort of just sitting there for the important part… watching trace. If shooting solo, your scope matters, not binos or spotting scope. (Though as an optics junkie I love spotting scopes. I just don’t use them shooting that much.)
Scope and ammo…. Scope for your eye. Ammo to shoot more and get better at using your scope.
Just my $0.02.
Sirhr
My argument would be to spend $1000 on upgrading your scope or getting a very, very good spotting scope or binos that have the right coatings and reticle so that you can spot wind signatures in the mirage… mil your targets at distance to get range… watch trace ( have your spotter watch trace), etc.
If you don’t have a spotter, get a scope that will let you do this. They are spendy, but the coatings concoctions on ZCO are unreal for doing your wind estimating. I am sure other Tier 1 scopes are close these days, too. Coatings technology is rapidly advancing.
Learn to range with reticle.
And take a class on wind reading. There are some good instructors out there. One was at PRE-21… ex AMU guy whose name escapes me. Excellent lecture!!
Once you have milling and wind reading down pat, the gear will sort of select itself. Or you will realize you don’t need it. I have not used my Kestrel in years. (In part because the little battery cover thingie broke off and they won’t get back to me to sell me a replacement.). But realized I just don’t need it Anymore. I can estimate wind ok where I am standing. Look at the trees, the grass, the mirage etc. and SWAG it pretty well. Wind reading does not need gear, it needs eyeballs and a good rifle scope. And experience/training.
Ranging can be done with a good scope. And spotting, well, unless you always shoot with a spotter…. A spotting scope is sort of just sitting there for the important part… watching trace. If shooting solo, your scope matters, not binos or spotting scope. (Though as an optics junkie I love spotting scopes. I just don’t use them shooting that much.)
Scope and ammo…. Scope for your eye. Ammo to shoot more and get better at using your scope.
Just my $0.02.
Sirhr
So many different ways to go about this. Arguably there is no "best", just a "depends". What exactly do you want to accomplish? You haven't laid out any specific objectives or any context about what you feel is currently lacking.
These are some suggestions:
Training. No gear will optimize your hits on target like professional training. If you want to optimize your success, I would spend that $1k on professional training over any gear 10 times out of 10.
This would be badass, but would require a substantial increase in your budget:
- WindZero system with 3 wind meters. Setup wind meter 1 at 1/3 of the distance to the target, at your intended projectile's height. Wind meter #2 at the distance and height of your projectile's max ordinance. Wind meter #3 at/close to the target. Combine with shot marker system, and this would be an excellent tool for learning the wind. This is a gucci setup and probably ~3x the cost of your budget.
Arguably a kestrel doesn't do anything you can't do with a smartphone w/ballistics app and a simple wind meter. Kestrel's are more robust and better for shitty conditions, but that's it. Bino's/spotters can be great tools, but really only work if you are shooting with other people. A good setup would be used Meopta Meostar 15x56 or Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56 (both can be found close to $1k used if you look long enough) - however this would also require that you have a decent tripod to mount them to and a way to mount them (not all bino's come with tripod mounts).
These are some suggestions:
Training. No gear will optimize your hits on target like professional training. If you want to optimize your success, I would spend that $1k on professional training over any gear 10 times out of 10.
This would be badass, but would require a substantial increase in your budget:
- WindZero system with 3 wind meters. Setup wind meter 1 at 1/3 of the distance to the target, at your intended projectile's height. Wind meter #2 at the distance and height of your projectile's max ordinance. Wind meter #3 at/close to the target. Combine with shot marker system, and this would be an excellent tool for learning the wind. This is a gucci setup and probably ~3x the cost of your budget.
Arguably a kestrel doesn't do anything you can't do with a smartphone w/ballistics app and a simple wind meter. Kestrel's are more robust and better for shitty conditions, but that's it. Bino's/spotters can be great tools, but really only work if you are shooting with other people. A good setup would be used Meopta Meostar 15x56 or Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56 (both can be found close to $1k used if you look long enough) - however this would also require that you have a decent tripod to mount them to and a way to mount them (not all bino's come with tripod mounts).
Of the three items you are considering, I would consider the Binos most useful overall. If affordable, maybe consider an Sig Binos with LRF +/- ballistic engine +/- environmental. Not the best glass or environmentals a decent all in one/best bag for your buck. Maybe sell your LRF to help offset the cost.
If going binos (or spotter I guess) make sure you have money for a tripod also.
Its quite incredible how good even 10x binos are off a tripod for spotting, you’d think a spotter with over twice the magnification would be a significant improvement but it really doesn’t help you see that much more, with binos being far nicer to use.
Its quite incredible how good even 10x binos are off a tripod for spotting, you’d think a spotter with over twice the magnification would be a significant improvement but it really doesn’t help you see that much more, with binos being far nicer to use.
If you are hunting, then the compactness and wide FOV of a good pair of bino's makes glassing for prey much easier.
As far as the actual shooting goes though, bino's or a spotting scope both require you to "get off the gun" to use. If you are a solo shooter or you don't need to supply your spotter with gear then I would be looking at selling your current scope and using that + the $1,000 you have to get some better rifle glass.
A powerful spotting scope always seems at first like a good thing to have, but it is another piece of gear to carry, set up, use, pack back up again, and depending on environmental conditions of the day and the distances you are shooting you might not be able to take much advantage of the higher magnification levels before spotting becomes too blurry due to mirage, haze, light levels etc over a quality rifle optic anyway.
As far as the actual shooting goes though, bino's or a spotting scope both require you to "get off the gun" to use. If you are a solo shooter or you don't need to supply your spotter with gear then I would be looking at selling your current scope and using that + the $1,000 you have to get some better rifle glass.
A powerful spotting scope always seems at first like a good thing to have, but it is another piece of gear to carry, set up, use, pack back up again, and depending on environmental conditions of the day and the distances you are shooting you might not be able to take much advantage of the higher magnification levels before spotting becomes too blurry due to mirage, haze, light levels etc over a quality rifle optic anyway.
How about a twofer? a set of rangefinding binoculars ,then consider a threefer vortex fury rangefinding binoculars with applied ballistics. less equipment to carry the better and never forget the Vortex warranty when it comes to expensive electronics
I recently bought a $20 wind meter on Amazon. Took it to a match, used it along with my dope card, and made a lot of hits. Compared it next to a kestrel a few times and it seemed to be as accurate. Just doesn’t have all the bells and whistles of kestrel.
So my vote would be good binos
So my vote would be good binos
Link to wind meter please lol.
I can’t get it to post the link….. but it’s LYCEBELL LC-818 Pro Anemometer. Fine piece of Chinesium even comes with a battery.
Pen and Notepad. Write everything down.
