Mounting a level

[bigdaddydmd]

I am posting this up here in the stupid question section because I have a stupid question and what better place to ask?

I remounted a Vortex PST 6-24 I had to send in for warranty work on my R700 and decided to add a level. Scope is mounted and set using a natural prone hold (a slight cant in the weapon system to properly fit my shoulder pocket) and the scope reticle is leveled using a plumb line at 100yds. I added a Vortex slim profile bubble level and am having a hell of a time getting it plumb to the reticle. Every time I get it set just right and start to torque the level to specs it pulls/bends/flexes just enough to pull quarter bubble. So I back it off, bump it around the housing a smidge and retighten. Now its off the other way. Back and forth, trial and error and an endless exercise in frustration. Finally quit once I had bubble between the lines when the reticle is plumb, but it is not centered. Does anyone have some tips/tricks to getting an add on level plumb to the reticle? On a side note I got so pissed I was looking at NF unimount and adding a level ring. Are there other manufacturers of rings with built in levels I should be looking at also in case I shitcan that Vortex bubble level?

 

[Blowby]

Stick with a level mounted to the scope tube. Once leveled you can now move scope position for eye relief and twist to fit gun intto your shoulder pocket and the relationship of reticle and bubble never change. I chose a Flatline Ops because they have small adjustable set screws for the final fine tuning after the mount is clamped. Flips out to see when both eyes open looking through scope and flips closed to stay compact. I move my scope a lot in the field based on the shooting position prominent for that outing. I'm getting closer to the happy medium on eye relief for all positions.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Possible dumb question heading your way.

Are you alternately tightening the screws (about 1/4-1/2 turn at a time) or tightening one side, then the other?
If you don't alternate them, the mount will turn just a bit as you tighten

 

[BearNaked]

Possible dumb question heading your way.

Are you alternately tightening the screws (about 1/4-1/2 turn at a time) or tightening one side, then the other?
If you don't alternate them, the mount will turn just a bit as you tighten

^^^^ Do this. that is the only way to keep it from moving on you.

also, keep your torque tension per the vortex spec otherwise it will mess up your tracking. i know this from experience.

 

[bigdaddydmd]

@ Blowby. This is a 30mm tube mounted level. @ Mike. It only has one set screw since its the low profile Vortex level and not the traditional two screw mounted clamping ring. I will see if I can get a pic to post. @ BearNaked, good to know. Not sure how a tube mounted ring could dork up tracking unless I'm really crushing it and egging the tube. I don't see that happening with this low profile bubble since its more of a band on the bottom half.

The curse of the impulse buy. I'm thinking the design on this type of level isn't worth it. Was at local big box store picking up some cleaning itmes and saw the level and thought to myself, "self, you need one of those since you have money burning a hole in your pocket and it will make you super cool and cure all your long range precision problems."

 

[BearNaked]

with my issue, the first time i got my pst, i tightened it down to 18 inch lbs as that was what it called for. between 14 and 18 IIRC. took it to the range and every time i shot, the round would hit an inch lower and the same for every round after that. i sent it off and it worked great for them at the factory so they sent it back to me and i used 14 in/lbs and now it works and tracks great.

so when i was running the turret all the way down and up because im an idiot and it is my first turret scope so i wanted to play with the clicks. the pressure on the tube didnt allow the internal adjusments move until after recoil jolted them loose. so that is why i was getting an inch lower on every shot. it also had to do with my putting the rings too close to the turrets. rookie mistakes. now it works like a champ and i couldnt be happier.

 

[Mike Casselton]

So it sounds like you will have to treat it like the original Weaver steel and aluminum rings of old.
They were and still are notorious for making the scope turn as they are snugged up.
The trick is to figure out how much it rotates, and then compensate for that amount before you begin the torque process.
Lots of fun to be had...

 

[bigdaddydmd]

Well, The bubble is between the lines but not perfectly centered now. I'll just leave it until I get a better design for a level and upgrade it. I don't think its worth the hassle or time trying to perfect it when its going to move every time I torque it down. I followed Frank's advice and video on getting the reticle plumb while shouldering the rifle in a comfortable hold. Figured I would add a level as a check to make sure I'm keeping the reticle plumb. Back to my question regarding scope rings and mounts with integrated leves into the base or rings are there other recommended manufacturers besides NF? They are the only ones I'm finding while searching. Thanks to all who took the time to respond.

 

[Alan101]

I wouldn't worry about it being absolutely perfect. Closer is better but for most of us larger variables, like the idiot behind the rifle in my case, need more attention.

 

[Crowe284]

I agree. I don't think it's necessary to have it perfect. Here's what I did with same type of level once...before I got different style. I just made a reference mark with black paint pen on the right side of the bubble when rifle was level. So, when shooting, I would just look up at my bubble and make sure right edge of bubble was hard against MY OWN LINE. I actually think I held the gun more consistent that way because I had a hard line reference, not just getting bubble to float between two lines. Now that I think about it more, should have just left it alone...but that's not In my nature! Most of us on this site are probably that way....Try to improve it or tweak it to make it better until we break it and then we known everything about how something works! Good luck.

 

[jwood1284]

Yeah, it doesn't have to be perfect. Your brains internal level will do most of the work for you. The bubble is more of a quick reference if your shooting position is off-camber or you're into terrain with no horizion. A lot of folks will set it up to be one one of the lines vs. trying to center it in the middle.

 

[pineoak]

I run two levels on my guns. Yes, I get laughed at.

My "internal level" sucks. Big time. So when I practice I make it a point to use the levels before every shot. I'm slowly training myself and it's improving, but my internal ability to level... started out pretty low/off. I practice support side around 30% or so.

Nice thing about a scope mounted level is that once you install, you just don't take it off. And if installing 2, just use the first for reference.


alternating tightening both sides does work on my Vortex old style ones, I have a new style one coming tomorrow so hopefully it's better like someone above said

also helps to get a cheapie level at Walmart that is just a small tiny level that you can put on a flat surface. possibly on top of the elevation turret or rail, it's not perfect, but a starting point

plumb line is the ultimate reference, though I usually only put one no farther than 20 yards

but know that I level my rifles to my scope without introducing a "natural cant"

I totally respect that Frank has forgotten more about PR that I have learned, but it's easier in terms of keeping things consistent for me with multiple rifles this way.

though I am slowly moving toward the "one gun" thing.