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Moving from TX to CA for job - considering selling firearms due to laws there...

P

Panther308

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Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 19, 2008
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Country - Texas
I recently accepted an offer for work in a company in Cupertino, CA.
I have considered selling off my firearms due to the very constrictive laws CA has and continues to push.

Can you help to chime in with your experience in the area (hopefully you live there), to give me info on:

1. The shooting community there
2. Semi auto rifles that would be legal there (I mostly own .308, some .223)
3. Reloading ability and component availability (out of state mail ordering, etc) - ease of doing it vs selling my equipment
4. Places to shoot (ranges, etc)
5. Anything else I would need/want to be aware of (like are people going to freak out if I have reloading hardware in garage, etc).
6. How liberal is the place, really?

In essence, I am interested in any info that would help in making my decisions to sell or keep/take with me to CA.

Really appreciate your help.
 
Best place for this info is calguns. I will give you some of the basics.

No mags over 10 rounds of any type.
No SBR/SBS/Cans/MGs
You need a spread sheet to figure if your AR is legal. Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle
Here is a flow chart from calguns. http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf
No 50 BMG of any type.
No threaded pistol barrels.

Again if you have specific about guns I would ask on calguns since they know more than I do.


I have not found any powder or primers here. 22 is still non existent for the most part. People camp out at 5 am at walmart to buy it when it does come in. We have very strict amount of powder on hand laws. Don't quote me on this but I believe it is 1 pound black powder and 16 pounds smokeless per household. Any more is against the law in a serious way.

How Liberal is it? It depends on the location you are in. Los Angeles, SF etc... Are very very liberal. I get yelled (seriously) at consistently for my small NRA sticker on my truck. I have even had it go as far as someone boxing me in at a parking lot with their car, get out and start screaming and pounding on my driver window about being/supporting murder... I had to get out my phone and say I am calling the cops to get them to take off. There is no changing their minds or reasoning with them.

CCWs are impossible to get in most county's. I think LA county has issued 6 of them. Safe school zone laws are a bitch also. Pistols need to be in a locked container or in the trunk not accessible to the passenger compartment. Glove boxes or center consoles are against the law for pistols. Rifles need to be locked is school zones so Just assume all firearms need to be unloaded and locked for transport.

If you have children going to school, fights are zero tolerance. Self defense will still get them kicked out. When I was in school the bullies could hit you and that was a "hit not a fight". If I blocked a punch it was a fight and instant suspension of both of us. It has gotten worse now because LEO's are called and it will end up in front of a judge.
 
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so the screaming incidents, I assume out of the norm there? Or is that an occurrence many experience?
Pretty hyper people up there then...lol
 
It happens every few months. I had to stop going to Big 5 (a sporting goods shop) because it was next to Panara Breads and it was happening almost every trip.

It's the standard I got a cause to fight people. My friends cousin was one of them. She goes to animal rights protests. Seriously they go as far as to want pet dogs be released... If it is not one cause it is another out here. Her group had a meeting at a guys house to plan a protest. That guy asked a few of the girls out, it became a protest against him with them camping out in his yard for a few days because he was a "womanizer".
 
Also all firearm transfers must go through a FFL and 10 day wait. You can't sell or buy them without an FFL to do the transfer.
 
Congrats on the job, but there is no amount of money, opportunity or anything that could ever get me to move to CA. I don't even consider it part of the US anymore.

When my wife had an open ticket to any practice she wanted after fellowship I made her a list of states that under no circumstances would I move to, regardless if she could make $2M a year there. CA was #1.

Is the job really worth all the bullshit that CA is? Not just the gun laws, but the overly crazy populace, immigration issues, cost of living, taxes, regulations, etc?
 
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Also if there is a pistol you really want get it now. We have a roster of DOJ approved handguns and if your not a LEO your not getting anything that is not on that roster without hoops. Also they are just starting to require microstamping on all new handguns to be added to the roster. You also will not be able to purchase any firearm outside of CA. You can buy it but it needs to be shipped to a CA FFL for wait and transfer.

I had a buddy move to Texas. He said your liberals are like our conservatives.
 
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What a shame. I grew up in the San Diego area. I remember going to some really cool outdoor ranges with my dad growing up. Then one day they started closing the ranges one by one. Not sure which part of Cali you are moving too, we use to go to the Anza Borrego desert and shoot too. Pretty cool, all by yourself out there, and you could shoot any distance you wanted. But I wouldn't be surprised if that's off limits now too. Thirty years ago California was a gun friendly state. Sad.
 
I live in Arizona, but plan to never set foot on CA soil again as long as I live. We should just give the state to Mexico and be done with it!

PS-Maybe they had the opening, since many other people and companies are leaving California for Arizona and Texas.
 
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I'm close to there, bring your stuff. There's places to shoot. Maybe not your backyard like some guys here but they are around. My garage is full of reloading stuff as well. There's no probelms ordering hazmat or reloading supplies. just check that calguns link to make sure you don't bring in any guns banned by name and the rest you can make compliant. You can have a bmg, just not a "rifle" meaning shoulder fired. You can buy lots of handguns "off list" at various dealers. I do agree with others above that the cost of living is astronomical so I hope the job you're taking is good and you have looked at housing already. Good luck, the weather is great!
 
Get into bolt guns - next to zero restrictions on those. Join NorCal Precision Rifle Club and shoot matches in Sacramento. Get to know other local shooters on Calguns and do BLM shoots at Pinoche. There are a LOT of shooters in CA and yes, compared to TX the restrictions are night and day, but not impossible to navigate. On liberalism, if you're a hardcore conservative, you'll be a minority and probably feel pissed off all the time. If you're a pretty moderate type, then you'll be at home as it's been my experience that folks there are mostly just left of center the way most folks in TX are mostly right of center. The really hardcore political types are the ones you have to worry about and they don't represent the mean by far (that goes just about everywhere but OK) ;)
 
Back out now! This will be the biggest regret of your life. Note the above post. (FTCs) Cost of living is asinine. Why do you think those idiots are flocking here? It ain't for the mild summers ;-)
 
TheGerman said:
Congrats on the job, but there is no amount of money, opportunity or anything that could ever get me to move to CA. I don't even consider it part of the US anymore.

When my wife had an open ticket to any practice she wanted after fellowship I made her a list of states that under no circumstances would I move to, regardless if she could make $2M a year there. CA was #1.

Is the job really worth all the bullshit that CA is? Not just the gun laws, but the overly crazy populace, immigration issues, cost of living, taxes, regulations, etc?
Click to expand...


BINGO, There's no F***ing way I will set foot in California ever again (last time was '92).

When my daughter was around 6 years old my wife wanted to take her to Disney Land, I said hell NO. Fought with her for a couple months about it. Then I said "Disney World I would do". I payed an extra $2,000 to fly everyone to Florida instead of drive to California. I have been back to Florida 2 more times.

My Extended Family all wanted to take a cruise together, I said I would not go if the ship left from California. They picked one that didn't.

Generally I just refer to it as the "Big Shit Hole"
 
I would rethink that job offer. Money isn't everything, and Cali is a miserable sad state nowadays.

I grew up there when I was younger, in the 80's. I have a soft spot for Cali as my lineage goes back to the 1800's there, but I will never live there again. It's just too far gone.

While I believe all of our freedoms are being eroded, it's to a ridiculous point there. Couple that with the traffic (in some areas), and insane costs of government (some call it cost of living) there, if you can punt, I would.
 
Well to me it's worth moving back. I know others disagree but there are many factors for me to move back. To each his own. Screw the DAMN winters out here in PA. I miss the beach and the sun. Sure I hate the liberals of California but I'm from a very conservative area. Camp Pendleton is literally my back yard. My first love is surfing. But Vegas and the high desert are close to go shooting. I'm lucky to have a place in Utah so I keep most of my good stuff there.

But where else can you snowboard, wakeboard and surf am in the same day? And yes I did this.

There are more gun owners in California than the media likes to admit.

Give it chance then decide. It's not for everyone. But to me it is my home. I move back in 55 days! I can't wait... To pay taxes and eat some fish tacos.
 
Buy an original HK 770 semi automatic rifle, one of the few that you won't have to worry about features on.
Or a M1A with either an original stock, or one of the upgraded stocks in standard format.
 
On the m1a make sure you get the California muzzle break version. With the flash hider it is an assault weapon.

I love the quote friends don't let friends move to California.
 
TheGerman said:
Congrats on the job, but there is no amount of money, opportunity or anything that could ever get me to move to CA. I don't even consider it part of the US anymore.

When my wife had an open ticket to any practice she wanted after fellowship I made her a list of states that under no circumstances would I move to, regardless if she could make $2M a year there. CA was #1.

Is the job really worth all the bullshit that CA is? Not just the gun laws, but the overly crazy populace, immigration issues, cost of living, taxes, regulations, etc?
Click to expand...

I was going to say the same but bit my tongue until a fellow immigrant chimed in. Even the country that invented the word "verboten" is not as bad as CA because in Germany the demographics allow to finance the liberal dream of an omnipresent nanny and the populace is not totally over the top in their view of reality. This is not just about guns. This is about everything - plus guns.
 
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I left 10 years ago and won't go back.

Good luck with the job. It was everything that added up for me, like said above. I remember getting pulled over one night on the way back from Occotillo Wells went riding and shooting and the CHP pulled me over for 3 mph over. Saw the gun cases (everything legal) I sat on the side of the road for 5 hours as they ran the serial numbers on all 5 guns, and search everybit of the truck for everything else.
 
I lived in San Diego several times. It's the biggest small town around. The locals are relatively conservative, mostly due to the heavy military presence (Camp Pendleton, MCRD, Coronado, etc.)

The shooters there are passionate. More passionate than any I've met here in Texas (my home).

The state is bankrupt and looking for additional revenue, expect taxes to go up.

I know everyone talks about the cost of living, but it's true. As an example, even car registration is high. My little Honda was around $400 a year to register (they base it on the value of the car, plus a few additional things,) and as soon as I moved back to Texas, it was $65.

Housing is crazy. It's in the dumps right now, but even at the bottom it's still ridiculous.

Traffic. I'll just leave that here.
 
techbrute said:
I lived in San Diego several times. It's the biggest small town around. The locals are relatively conservative, mostly due to the heavy military presence (Camp Pendleton, MCRD, Coronado, etc.)

The shooters there are passionate. More passionate than any I've met here in Texas (my home).

The state is bankrupt and looking for additional revenue, expect taxes to go up.

I know everyone talks about the cost of living, but it's true. As an example, even car registration is high. My little Honda was around $400 a year to register (they base it on the value of the car, plus a few additional things,) and as soon as I moved back to Texas, it was $65.

Housing is crazy. It's in the dumps right now, but even at the bottom it's still ridiculous.

Traffic. I'll just leave that here.
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I just want to expand on this and mention that the immigrants looking for a better life North of the border are not the perpetrators but the pawns in this scam.

If you are on the lower rungs of the socioeconomic ladder, you are the furthest away from the American dream in CA and NYC compared to any other place in this country. There are statistic that show how many weeks of minimum wage you need to afford things that everyone would consider bare essentials (housing, car, etc.). In the metropolitan areas of CA and in NYC the year does not have enough weeks to get there. If you want to make it in America "from scratch" you should avoid these places like the plague.

The corrupt politicians use the ignorance and naivete of the "disadvantaged" to get the votes to stay in power so that they can fleece people like our OP who work in CA in the higher income brackets to make a decent living (after the fleecing). The obvious questions nobody dares to asks is: Where does the fleeced money really end up? And who has vested interest to keep the disadvantaged in their condition?
 
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Sorry to say this, but there are a few misinformation here. Please go to calguns.net for more information and find a good FFL where you will move to do the transfer.
 
CA is a big state. I won't refute any of the negativity expressed, but much of the state's population is conservative, rural and agrarian. The populations centers in the bay and LA render our votes mostly void and the problems with taxes, regulations and the like are a result. I live in the central valley, about 90 minutes from Cupertino, It is a world apart as far as demographics. We are 2 hours away from San Francisco, Yosemite and Sacramento. Mostly dairy cows and almond trees.

CCW's are readily issued in most counties in the valley. My 22 year old nephew farmer just got his in Merced County, for no specific cause. Lots of National forest, BLM land, and private shooting clubs to shoot at.
Bakersfield north to the Oregon border, with the exception of Sacramento is a completely different demographic and class of people. Most of the the coast, south of Santa Rosa, is much like Southern CA.

Unless your Job will absolutely be a long term thing, keep the guns, magazines, cans etc that you cant bring. Leave them with a family member or trusted friend and keep 'em in a good safe. Housing costs are much better east of the altamont and Pacheco pass, on the valley side. Live here and commute 30-45 minutes if you can. It will be a world of difference.

I'm a LEO and exempt from many of the laws so I might be tone deaf to the realities, but I thinks its because of where I live in the state. Calguns is a great resource,

The state is going to hell in a hand basket but I refuse to leave. I live in a little slice of heaven. I wish we could split the state in 3 or more parts like some have proposed.
What part of the state are you in Napster?
 
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Panther308 said:
I recently accepted an offer for work in a company in Cupertino, CA.
I have considered selling off my firearms due to the very constrictive laws CA has and continues to push.

Can you help to chime in with your experience in the area (hopefully you live there), to give me info on:

1. The shooting community there
2. Semi auto rifles that would be legal there (I mostly own .308, some .223)
3. Reloading ability and component availability (out of state mail ordering, etc) - ease of doing it vs selling my equipment
4. Places to shoot (ranges, etc)
5. Anything else I would need/want to be aware of (like are people going to freak out if I have reloading hardware in garage, etc).
6. How liberal is the place, really?
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The shooting community is full of great folks who are an easy going bunch
Bring your reloading equipment. Powder is a little hard to come by depending on which one you want. Things are slowly getting better as manufacturers ramp up production to keep pace with demand.
The Sac Valley Shooting Center is a great place. Access to a 300 yard range for the general public, and a competition range to 1K - info here: Sacramento Valley Shooting Center
Check out Nor Cal Practical Precision Rifle Club for information on 1K and steel matches: NCPPRC: News There are several members of the club on here who can give you much better information that I.
I guess you could always just leave the garage door down when reloading if you'd like to avoid the neighborhood seeing you do it.
Cupertino is in the Silicon Valley. Anything in the Bay Area proper will be pretty liberal.
From what I understand, there are quite a few ranges within about an hour of Cupertino, even down there in South Bay.

See you on the range.
 
JesseSB said:
I'm a LEO and exempt from many of the laws so I might be tone deaf to the realities, but I thinks its because of where I live in the state. Calguns is a great resource,
Click to expand...

AAAAAUUGH, herein lies one of the huge problems I have. The double standard that ALL California's live by. What is good for the goose is not good for the gander in California.

So the lawmakers decide that they want to ban guns but the LEO groups throw a fit that some of the guns they want will be banned. So the law is written to exclude LEO from restrictions. WTF if it is good enough for LEO then it should be good enough for regular citizens to have to protect their lives. Is a LEO live worth more than a "regular" guys life. I would think not. Are LEO super human cyborgs that are immune to the stresses and emotion of being human, NOPE. LEO can and do commit crimes, not all do but it does happen. This creates different class of people and is not morally right.

Other states have had similar laws and when pushed to court they have been struck down. If someone had the resources to fight it I am almost sure it would be over turned and either the restrictions (banned guns) would be lifted or the LEO exclusions would be removed.

And that leads to another problem I have with ALL politicians, but democrats seem by far the worst which California is absolutely run by democrats. They pass laws that they know strip us of our freedoms and don't give two shits, because they know that until it goes through the courts it is the law. They are gambling that no one will have the resources to challenge the law and even if someone does which can take YEARS they still have a 50/50 shot in court because who knows what the judges will say.
 
Well do what you got to do but NO amount of money could get me to move there either.
I feel sorry:( for you a bit but still wish you well.
Freedom is more important than money to me and the preservation of our right to arms is my most cherished one.
I could never give that up.
Kommiefornia vs TEXAS.... no contest here.
Good luck and be safe.
 
2ndamendfan said:
AAAAAUUGH, herein lies one of the huge problems I have. The double standard that ALL California's live by. What is good for the goose is not good for the gander in California.

So the lawmakers decide that they want to ban guns but the LEO groups throw a fit that some of the guns they want will be banned. So the law is written to exclude LEO from restrictions. WTF if it is good enough for LEO then it should be good enough for regular citizens to have to protect their lives. Is a LEO live worth more than a "regular" guys life. I would think not. Are LEO super human cyborgs that are immune to the stresses and emotion of being human, NOPE. LEO can and do commit crimes, not all do but it does happen. This creates different class of people and is not morally right.

Other states have had similar laws and when pushed to court they have been struck down. If someone had the resources to fight it I am almost sure it would be over turned and either the restrictions (banned guns) would be lifted or the LEO exclusions would be removed.

And that leads to another problem I have with ALL politicians, but democrats seem by far the worst which California is absolutely run by democrats. They pass laws that they know strip us of our freedoms and don't give two shits, because they know that until it goes through the courts it is the law. They are gambling that no one will have the resources to challenge the law and even if someone does which can take YEARS they still have a 50/50 shot in court because who knows what the judges will say.
Click to expand...

Amen to that.
Everyone deserves the same access.
LEO's do not deserve better nor everyone else less.
It is really just another form of gun control that has pissed me off for a long time.
I don't want to restrict LEO's.
I want to un-restrict everyone else.
 
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Live right next to Cupertino. Are guns laws more lax in other states? Absolutely! But, there is a big contingency of CA gun owners continuously fighting for 2A. We don't intend to get pushed out by anyone.

That said, Cupertino does have a gun range. 100 yards, pistol, skeet. 1000 yard range (Sac Valley) and BLM are about 2 hours away. PM if you want more info.
 
If you're going to move out to the liberal shithole known as California then don't you dare come on this forum after moving and bitch about all the gun restrictions, what you can't own and so on. You're diving into that cesspool, head first, knowing exactly what you are getting yourself into.

California, New York, and other anti-constitution states...will not get a fuckin penny of my money and no matter how much I'm offered, I will never move to a shithole liberal state that infringes upon the 2A.

People who foster the liberal ideology multiply like cockroaches in anti-2A states, at a rate much faster than you, and they're coming across the border by the thousands each year. Anyone who thinks those states can or will change for the better is only lying to themselves because it's only going to get worse, much worse.
 
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My wife and I made the mistake of living there for about a year and a half. We were in Cupertino, in fact. Cupertino Village has the best Chinese/Japanese/Korean food in California and probably the country: it's where all the multimillionaire Asian tech pros eat when they want to eat the best of their food. San Francisco's Chinatown is NOTHING compared to it. Don't sell ANYTHING you own. Get bullet buttons for the rifles, 10 round magazines for the pistols, and whatever you can't adapt just park with a relative outside of CA for however long you'll be there. You likely will not find yourself willing to stay for very long, I can promise you that. The laws and taxes will make it not worth your while. That being said, I'd say screw the liberal panty wetters, be balls out pro gun. Don't hide, be proud.

For wine, Gilroy has exceptional wineries, two of my favorites were Solis and Fortino. Paso Robles is outstanding if you want a wine country getaway experience with 80+ wineries within an hour of each other--Napa and Sonoma are grossly overpriced and overrun by tourism and are best avoided.
 
Don't sell anything just yet.......

You can keep your AR's.
You are going to HATE the "bullet button" magazine release but at least you can hang on to the ones you don't want to sell. Change the release back in a minute when heading to free states.
Check Calguns for laws on magazines. There seems to be a lot of gray areas regarding legality.

I order as much reloading components as the rest of you can find on the interweb no problems.
I do *believe* however, that storing over 20lbs if powder is a felony :mad: kinda gay if you finally find those elusive 8lb jugs for more than 1 of your loads(really gay)
As others have said, CalGuns is the place to find legal info for sure. Just don't bother using the rest of the forum (operator central with tons of awful advice!)

It's salmon and abalone season and the weather is sweet up here in the far north. Pigs and turkeys are abundant right now too and whitetail deer as well.
I shoot on BLM land every weekend if I can and the ranger I know is quite friendly. We get along great because he frequently sees me picking up trash other dipshits leave behind. He wants to keep it open for shooting just as bad as I do.
If it ever gets to be more trouble than it's worth, I'll move to Oregon to all that damn fog and rain.

Just get a house OUTSIDE OF THE CITY !
 
Cupertino is west of San Jose, and south of Palo Alto. So that is DEEP inside the liberal-cutural hell. Plus thieves and gangs, and such. AND you are still a long drive from BLM or other wide open spaces that redeem themselves by being able to shoot there.
I suggest a driving trip into the state to look over that lay of the land. Surely you did not accept a job offer without looking at things there? Make one of your visits to the local Sheriff, and ask if you can get a carry license when you move there. See what kind of reception THAT brings.
The cost of living there is incredibly bad. Auto licensing, rent or purchase of a home, all that crap that goes with living there.
You will be in absolute shock when you add up the cost differences between Texas and CA.
I moved BACK to Texas after 10 years back in Oregon, and that was liberal enough, just not as expensive at all.
If you decide you simply MUST move to that shit hole, let me at least see your list of selling items.
Income tax, state sales tax, and local add on taxes are bad enough, add that to any hours you spend on the road commuting...Phew.
I wouldn't move to that waste land for twice what you are making. and I don't care WHAT you are making.
If you do move there, make sure you go completely underground.
The bay area is seriously anti.
Take off all stickers, NEVER talk about firearms to anyone, Load your weapons in the car for a trip to the range, INSIDE your garage, do NOT carry anything that remotely looks like a weapon case to your car or where visible by your neighbors. Consider joining the police reserve, get an alarm company contract and install a video cam system.
I spent two years in Palo Alto during PA School, and hated every minute of it.
I volunteer at Fleet Week in October, and that is the longest week of the year. I have three 24 hour guards watching my RV in the venue (at Aquatic Park in SF), and still get up 2 times each night to check around the RV and count the golf carts we use. And that is on FEDERAL property!
We went to a wedding in Palo Alto last summer. Two cars were broken into in a Church parking lot. And that was a GOOD neighborhood.
Don't get me started on the panhandlers, and aggressive towel heads.
 
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This thread has gotten rather comical.

ETA: it's not like he's moving to Japan where he can't own firearms, period. There are plenty of people who live in CA and do just fine with firearms. Yeah, sometimes it's a real bummer that you can't have a can or an SBR, but is that really the end of the world? And while it sucks for the new folks having to have neutered ARs and whatnot, there are a lot of us who got in before the bans and have enjoyed them un-neutered for years. At the time of the bans, there were a lot of people saying "don't do it! they'll come take 'em from you!" who ended up not registering their rifles. How's that working out for them now? Have their felony safe queens seen the light of day in over a decade, let alone had a mag run through them? CA is NOT the wasteland people here are making it out to be, no matter how hard you try.
 
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Guys saying you can keep your ARs are partially correct. There is a list of lowers that are mentioned by name that would be assault weapons regardless of features(colt, DPMS, etc...). The maker of the upper is not a factor. Make sure you research it and ask on cal guns to confirm. The bullet button has not been confirmed by the CA DOJ as legal and is open to the interpretation of the local DA. That being said there are 10s of thousands of them and I do not believe anyone has been tried for possession of an AR with one.

I am in the Los Angeles County area.
 
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BEST case, you somehow manage to navigate the legal minefield that is firearm law in CA.

Worst case, a minor misstep or misunderstanding of the law (by you OR a LEO/DA), and bye-bye freedoms.

I assume you've looked at real estate in Cupertino. Are you able to get a place you could tolerate?
 
If you act quickly, there is a condo for sale that is UNDER $600,000.00, and is NEARLY 750sqft!
 
And it's not the wasteland you're making it out to be.
 
Like I said before to each his own. The weather is important to me add I like to live life outside doing things. I love the beach. I like cycling on the road and in the mountains. I like skiing on snow and water, etc the list goes on and on. And no you can't surf in Utah... Nice try.

I will tell you winters suck in the east and the summers do to. It's amazing how everyone downs tons of money going to others places to do things. Growing up in Orange county... I drive an hour to do most of the forementined things. So to me the costs are close. She it might be more expensive but the weather is worth the money. It's not cheap to fly my family of 6 anywhere let alone to get 2 hotel rooms... So in my opinion try it out and leave if you don't like it. I've lived outside of California for 11 years. Ive lived in the east the Rockies and South America.... And I look forward to moving back to Cali.

To each his own.
 
I hate the the state and will never go there again. If someone from there moves to Arizona I tell them we don't want any of your liberal anti gun bullshit here, or you can fuck off back to Commiefornia. Don't move to that shit hole state.
 
We should all just give up the fight, right? I view us bold minority as the resistance movement. We aren't afraid nor will we be. Is it an easy road, no of course not. But we aren't pussies either. Nor are we stupid, hence why the majority of us are conservatives. Remember California gave you Ronaldus Magnus.

Haters gonna hate...
 
So the only redeeming quality that anyone can come up with so far for California is the weather. I don't know which is worse, that weather is all California has to offer or that some people are willing to sell their soul to the devil for it.

Here is what I tell people that bitch about Utah's winters. There is not one single place on the planet that doesn't get sun at least part of the year, but there are places on the planet that haven't had snow for 100's or 1000's of years. There is a ton to do in the winter. Have you tried snowmobiling? If you are not sweating buckets you are not doing it right. I love the winter 'cause it keeps all the pussies indoors and away from my outdoor play ground.
 
Lived in Orem and park City for 5 years. My family has had a place in P. C. since the early 70's. My dad's a bountiful brave of 69' my ancestors settled the land, Monticello, price etc. Payson is named after my great great grandfather. So yeah I know utah, just a little. Like i said to each his own.

I love utah dearly but it's my second choice for now. I never said that my opinion won't change. So stay tuned...

Like my grand father says there's not a day that goes by that he misses the coal mines, nor a winter there. You can blame him for my love of my hometown of San Clemente.

Funny people seem to vacation there quite often... I don't I just consider it a lifestyle.
 
2ndamendfan said:
So the only redeeming quality that anyone can come up with so far for California is the weather. I don't know which is worse, that weather is all California has to offer or that some people are willing to sell their soul to the devil for it.
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Is it really that hard for you to comprehend that there are many different reasons why people might choose to live in CA vs UT, North Dakota or any other state? Seriously. We all make choices and weigh them based on cost/benefit analysis or other parameters and granted there are some that make the number one priority being to have access to NFA weapons. Good for you. If that was my priority, I would have moved out of CA, but my family is there as well as my industry, livelihood and yeah, I like the weather too. The irrational hate for anything and everything CA is ridiculous.
 
Dogtown said:
Is it really that hard for you to comprehend that there are many different reasons why people might choose to live in CA vs UT, North Dakota or any other state? Seriously. We all make choices and weigh them based on cost/benefit analysis or other parameters and granted there are some that make the number one priority being to have access to NFA weapons. Good for you. If that was my priority, I would have moved out of CA, but my family is there as well as my industry, livelihood and yeah, I like the weather too. The irrational hate for anything and everything CA is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I understand everything you are saying. I only use Utah because that is where I live, don't get me wrong Utah has a HUGE albatross around it's neck. Since I am a native I am used to it, my wife is a transplant from California (when she was 9 with her family) she has struggles with the "Utah issue" and it does affect my daughter but she lets it roll off her back like water off a ducks back.

But you are moving back willingly and if you can't tell that is ultra-rare. The hate for California comes from the fact that other than the weather there is not one thing that the state has to offer that is not better in another state.
 
2ndamendfan said:
The hate for California comes from the fact that other than the weather there is not one thing that the state has to offer that is not better in another state.
Click to expand...

To you. It's purely subjective, so what's true for you isn't necessarily true for anyone else.
 
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