Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

[crocodile427]

I have read mixed reviews from numerous sources. They all seem to be split, either muzzle devices dont affect accuracy, or they do.

What I want to know, is if they do, how much do they effect the bullet? What effects do they have? Is it a pressure issue, stabilization,

Do muzzle brakes and flash hiders effect accuracy differently? Do any muzzle devices enhance accuracy? Or velocity or flatten the trajectory more?

To sum up, what are all the affects, if any, muzzle devices have on bullet performance?

My rifle is an Armalite AR-10. I have no accuracy issues, but plan on shooting some long range competitions in the spring/summer, and want to get setup now beforehand. I have the standard A2 flash suppressor, I can hold moderate ~10" groups with just irons. I feel good about it, sure there are better shooters out there, but you gotta start somewhere, and just about everyone sucks starting out.

Anyways, what kind of muzzle device should I use, if any? What are the pros and cons of brakes and flash hiders, besides the sound of the brakes. Any and all help is much appreciated.

 

[bpipe95]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

I have also heard that they can or do affect accuracy.

However I have yet to find a mainstream Brake that has adversely affected accuracy on any of my Rifles. Now if you live in a state like I do and the brake has to be pinned carbon build up around the crown can cause problems if the rifle is not maintained.

 

[josie6637]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

In theory brakes should effect accuracy, with that being has anyone chrono'd same gun w/ and then w/out a brake? Or tried different brakes on the same gun/ammo setup?

 

[josie6637]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

Meant shouldn't effect accuracy....iphone

 

[crocodile427]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

Some people's points make sense. That the flash hider or brake cause slight POI shifts because of the pressure of the gases as the bullet exits the muzzle. I have no clue beyond what I brainstorm about.

I have not seen any tests conducted on one rifle with and without brakes or hiders.

Wouldnt be that hard. Get a match grade barrel that is threaded and crowned, shoot 2 10 shot groups and average out. Then do the same with each muzzle device and do the math.

The consensus seems to be that flash hiders affect accuracy more than brakes. Atleast from what I have read, I guess I need to track down the articles I was reading and post them here.

 

[k2peaker]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

You're asking such a generic question that it's hard to answer in the absolute.

But, consider a few points.
Many of us competitive LR shooters shoot with either suppressors or brakes. If they adversely affected accuracy, do you think their use would be so pervasive?
For example, what good 3gun competitor in Open or TacOps shoots without a brake? None that I can think of.

POI:
Sure, I've seen slight POI shifts when I put a particular brake on a 3gun AR or when I put a suppressor on an AIAW. But, so what? You re-zero and you're good to go.

 

[crocodile427]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

Ok, Ill try to be more specific.

Im trying to decide if I need to replace my A2 flash hider. I would like to get into some LR shooting matches. Not big on the 3 gun right now, maybe Ill get into that later.

Will my A2 flash hider affect accurate shots 500yds and beyond? Would say, the Smith Vortex affect accuracy less than the A2?

I understand your frustration now. Im trying to get more specific with my question, and its difficult for me as well. Basically, I want to take out as much variables as possible and make my gun able to shoot 800yds so I can have something to work up to. Does that make sense?

I want to eliminate doubt in my rig, and only have myself to blame. Im getting a new forearm and then a new barrel. I want to do some testing with my current barrel to see if I want to have the new one threaded or not. Brake or flash, etc.

Let me know if there is anything I need to add or take into consideration to clarify my questions more.

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

Point of information: "accuracy" is a measure of how close POI is to POA (ie. shot placement); "precision" is a measure of repeatability (ie. group size, not placement):

It is possible for a muzzle device to affect both precision and accuracy. However, it is probably more common to see an effect on accuracy rather than precision. In that case, it is possible to adjust sight windage/elevation so that POI meets POA. The same thing can be observed when switching between different ammunition loads using the same scope zero. Simply record the adjustment required to get POI = POA and you're GTG. A muzzle device that affects <span style="font-style: italic">both</span> accuracy and precision would be a problem, and one that wouldn't remain on my rifle very long unless I could find a different load in which precision was not affected.

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

Gstaylorg,

That's THE best explanation I've ever seen outside of a machinist's/inspector's textbook.

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

I can't claim any credit for that, it's just my own little version of several similar figures I've seen online. As a scientist by training, I've always had to think about my research data in terms of precision vs accuracy, so it's not a new concept for me. However, I think the difference is often not fully appreciated as it pertains to shooting, particularly with newer shooters.

 

[Tactical30]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.


I changed my Sabre Gill brake to a Vortex Flash Hider on one of my semi-auto Grendel builds and it DID shift my POI and my accuracy changed for the worse, I put the Gill brake back on.

 

[eihcir6002]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

tag

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstaylorg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't claim any credit for that, it's just my own little version of several similar figures I've seen online. As a scientist by training, I've always had to think about my research data in terms of precision vs accuracy, so it's not a new concept for me. However, I think the difference is often not fully appreciated as it pertains to shooting, particularly with newer shooters. </div></div>

I understand. I've done a bit of statistical work in my life, also.

But that's the best I've ever seen in putting it into quick, understandable terms for the general shooter.

 

[cz777]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

one other thing is at play is over-tightening -the stressing of the muzzle end ....this maybe be at play also ! jumping the guerrilla on the brake ...gooden tight! opps missing the mark now !!!

 

[josie6637]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

does this haveany effects of harmonics? be it a brake or a suppressor. Either way you are putting additional weight on the end of the "tunning fork".

I agree that someone some where would have found if brakes decrease precision but the physics behind it are a little off for me.

 

[crocodile427]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

Thanks for that gstaylorg. Makes good sense.

So, for accuracy, it matters how close to where your aiming the bullet goes.

Precision is consistency, correct?

So, I guess the question should be, do muzzle devices affect precision?

Would it be more wise to just crown the barrel and leave it not threaded?

Thanks guys for helping me out on this. Appreciate alot. If Im not making sense, let me know and Ill rephrase or be more specific.

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

ANY change in an equation on one side of the equal sign has an equal change on the other side.

 

[crocodile427]

Re: Muzzle Devices and accuracy.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ANY change in an equation on one side of the equal sign has an equal change on the other side. </div></div>

I will keep this in mind with everything I do to my rifle from now on. Thanks alot.