Are muzzle devices allowed in F Open or TR? I read through the rules on the NRA site and I couldn't find anything. The rifles I have seen on the interwebs do not have any and I assumed they were not allowed. Or is there another reason people don't use them?
F T/R Competition Muzzle devices in F Class?
- Thread starter jason8251
- Start date
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
nothing that re-directs gasses is allowed, at local ranges they may let you use a brake or suppressor but your score may not be sent out to the NRA for classification.
hope this helps.
nothing that re-directs gasses is allowed, at local ranges they may let you use a brake or suppressor but your score may not be sent out to the NRA for classification.
hope this helps.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have covered this question time and again. Can I ask what the fascination with wanting to use muzzle devices in F-class competition is all about? I must confess it escapes me. </div></div>
Because a 300WM launching 208s @ 3000fps is tough to stay on top of for ~70 rounds.
Or a 7WSM, or 7RSAUM, or even a 284.
Also, if brakes were allowed, you'd see 338s.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have covered this question time and again. Can I ask what the fascination with wanting to use muzzle devices in F-class competition is all about? I must confess it escapes me. </div></div>
Because a 300WM launching 208s @ 3000fps is tough to stay on top of for ~70 rounds.
Or a 7WSM, or 7RSAUM, or even a 284.
Also, if brakes were allowed, you'd see 338s.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have covered this question time and again. Can I ask what the fascination with wanting to use muzzle devices in F-class competition is all about? I must confess it escapes me. </div></div>
Its not a fascination with using them, rather a person doesn't have a dedicated gun for F-Class and want to use their "tac" rifle to cross-over. Its sometimes a PAIN to take certain muzzle devices off.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have covered this question time and again. Can I ask what the fascination with wanting to use muzzle devices in F-class competition is all about? I must confess it escapes me. </div></div>
Its not a fascination with using them, rather a person doesn't have a dedicated gun for F-Class and want to use their "tac" rifle to cross-over. Its sometimes a PAIN to take certain muzzle devices off.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
I was hoping to get the above answers, especially the one from Turbo54. It illustrates what to my way of thinking, is one of the two main reasons why muzzle devices are not allowed in NRA competitions.
If you can't handle the recoil of your rifle for a match, you might want to look at using something a little more gentle. I don't see why I should be inconvenienced while I'm shooting so you can shoot such monstrous high BC bullets with impunity. F-class is all about choices and trade-offs within the specs.
Tell me again why I would want to see .338 LM at competitions? This would definitely make F-open even more of an armements race than it is now, and .338 ammo is expensive even if you handload.
I was hoping to get the above answers, especially the one from Turbo54. It illustrates what to my way of thinking, is one of the two main reasons why muzzle devices are not allowed in NRA competitions.
If you can't handle the recoil of your rifle for a match, you might want to look at using something a little more gentle. I don't see why I should be inconvenienced while I'm shooting so you can shoot such monstrous high BC bullets with impunity. F-class is all about choices and trade-offs within the specs.
Tell me again why I would want to see .338 LM at competitions? This would definitely make F-open even more of an armements race than it is now, and .338 ammo is expensive even if you handload.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
"Its not a fascination with using them, rather a person doesn't have a dedicated gun for F-Class and want to use their "tac" rifle to cross-over. Its sometimes a PAIN to take certain muzzle devices off."
That's why I asked and thank you.
"Its not a fascination with using them, rather a person doesn't have a dedicated gun for F-Class and want to use their "tac" rifle to cross-over. Its sometimes a PAIN to take certain muzzle devices off."
That's why I asked and thank you.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
I put my not inconsiderable intellect on the problem, and I think I have a solution for you to help remove and remount these muzzle devices. One word; Velcro.
Seriously, I understand your problem, but it is what it is.
I put my not inconsiderable intellect on the problem, and I think I have a solution for you to help remove and remount these muzzle devices. One word; Velcro.
Seriously, I understand your problem, but it is what it is.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
For F/TR, limited to .308 Win and .223 Rem, it is a moot point. For F-Open, I don't think anyone is going to seriously challenge the Dashers, Dancers, Prancers, and Vixens. 6, 6.5 and 7's which regularly shoot cleans with a lot less recoil, at least in mid-range (I haven't looked at long range examples).
For F/TR, limited to .308 Win and .223 Rem, it is a moot point. For F-Open, I don't think anyone is going to seriously challenge the Dashers, Dancers, Prancers, and Vixens. 6, 6.5 and 7's which regularly shoot cleans with a lot less recoil, at least in mid-range (I haven't looked at long range examples).
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nora23</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> For F-Open, I don't think anyone is going to seriously challenge the Dashers, Dancers, Prancers, and Vixens.</div></div>
Man, I really want to make a new Wildcat out of the 6BR. Just so I can call it the "6 Vixen"....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nora23</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> For F-Open, I don't think anyone is going to seriously challenge the Dashers, Dancers, Prancers, and Vixens.</div></div>
Man, I really want to make a new Wildcat out of the 6BR. Just so I can call it the "6 Vixen"....
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
What about suppressors? Seems like they fit the letter of the law, provide a little recoil benefit, and sure are a pleasure to shoot.
My opinion is TFB if the brake and associated blast blows a little sand up your vagina. At the same time, I find it totally acceptable when match directors make brake users shoot from inside a piece of concrete pipe. Again, TFB if you don't like the blast.
I shoot a local match that allows any rifle, any sight...just no 50BMGs. Most guys are running either 308 or some flavor of 6.5mm. I started showing up with my 338 and the belly-aching began. Then they segregated me 50ft away from everyone else. Once the 338 started winning, the protests began to "ban" 338s and brakes.
Anyway, AFAIC, the Fclass rules are fair, but only because it keeps ballistics somewhat reasonable; not because of the annoyance of blast.
What about suppressors? Seems like they fit the letter of the law, provide a little recoil benefit, and sure are a pleasure to shoot.
My opinion is TFB if the brake and associated blast blows a little sand up your vagina. At the same time, I find it totally acceptable when match directors make brake users shoot from inside a piece of concrete pipe. Again, TFB if you don't like the blast.
I shoot a local match that allows any rifle, any sight...just no 50BMGs. Most guys are running either 308 or some flavor of 6.5mm. I started showing up with my 338 and the belly-aching began. Then they segregated me 50ft away from everyone else. Once the 338 started winning, the protests began to "ban" 338s and brakes.
Anyway, AFAIC, the Fclass rules are fair, but only because it keeps ballistics somewhat reasonable; not because of the annoyance of blast.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killshot44</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nora23</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> For F-Open, I don't think anyone is going to seriously challenge the Dashers, Dancers, Prancers, and Vixens.</div></div>
Man, I really want to make a new Wildcat out of the 6BR. Just so I can call it the "6 Vixen".... </div></div>
L M A O ... thats great! Im sure some of the belly benchresters got "offended" ... too funny.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killshot44</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nora23</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> For F-Open, I don't think anyone is going to seriously challenge the Dashers, Dancers, Prancers, and Vixens.</div></div>
Man, I really want to make a new Wildcat out of the 6BR. Just so I can call it the "6 Vixen".... </div></div>
L M A O ... thats great! Im sure some of the belly benchresters got "offended" ... too funny.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about suppressors? Seems like they fit the letter of the law, provide a little recoil benefit, and sure are a pleasure to shoot.
My opinion is TFB if the brake and associated blast blows a little sand up your vagina. At the same time, I find it totally acceptable when match directors make brake users shoot from inside a piece of concrete pipe. Again, TFB if you don't like the blast.
I shoot a local match that allows any rifle, any sight...just no 50BMGs. Most guys are running either 308 or some flavor of 6.5mm. I started showing up with my 338 and the belly-aching began. Then they segregated me 50ft away from everyone else. Once the 338 started winning, the protests began to "ban" 338s and brakes.
Anyway, AFAIC, the Fclass rules are fair, but only because it keeps ballistics somewhat reasonable; not because of the annoyance of blast. </div></div>
Personally, I have no issue with suppressors on the line. I have not done a lot of research on the subject, but are suppressors legal in all 50 states? If not, that may be part of the NRA's reluctance to allow their use. Just my $.02.
As far as larger caliber rifles, IIRC, NRA allows up to .35. However, the rules do allow for the local club to restrict calibers, if they desire. We have a guy shoots a 300 Win Mag and does very well with it. If he wants to shoot it, we say "go for it." Our firing line is raised, so we require the end of all rifle barrels to be at or over the front of the line so you don't have a 22" barreled rifle farther back from the line than a 30". Makes for a more cordial shooting experience when your head isn't almost at the end of his barrel.
We hold an FPR match the weekend after the Mid-Range/Prone match and usually have around 15-18 shooters. This is tailor made for the guys with the brakes and suppressors. We started this last year because we saw a niche for folks to shoot that their equipment may not meet NRA requirements.
The only restriction is .35 or under, so the .338 Lapuas are more than welcome.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about suppressors? Seems like they fit the letter of the law, provide a little recoil benefit, and sure are a pleasure to shoot.
My opinion is TFB if the brake and associated blast blows a little sand up your vagina. At the same time, I find it totally acceptable when match directors make brake users shoot from inside a piece of concrete pipe. Again, TFB if you don't like the blast.
I shoot a local match that allows any rifle, any sight...just no 50BMGs. Most guys are running either 308 or some flavor of 6.5mm. I started showing up with my 338 and the belly-aching began. Then they segregated me 50ft away from everyone else. Once the 338 started winning, the protests began to "ban" 338s and brakes.
Anyway, AFAIC, the Fclass rules are fair, but only because it keeps ballistics somewhat reasonable; not because of the annoyance of blast. </div></div>
Personally, I have no issue with suppressors on the line. I have not done a lot of research on the subject, but are suppressors legal in all 50 states? If not, that may be part of the NRA's reluctance to allow their use. Just my $.02.
As far as larger caliber rifles, IIRC, NRA allows up to .35. However, the rules do allow for the local club to restrict calibers, if they desire. We have a guy shoots a 300 Win Mag and does very well with it. If he wants to shoot it, we say "go for it." Our firing line is raised, so we require the end of all rifle barrels to be at or over the front of the line so you don't have a 22" barreled rifle farther back from the line than a 30". Makes for a more cordial shooting experience when your head isn't almost at the end of his barrel.
We hold an FPR match the weekend after the Mid-Range/Prone match and usually have around 15-18 shooters. This is tailor made for the guys with the brakes and suppressors. We started this last year because we saw a niche for folks to shoot that their equipment may not meet NRA requirements.
The only restriction is .35 or under, so the .338 Lapuas are more than welcome.
B
bubbapug1
Guest
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
Maybe you've seen it time and again, but some of us haven't..
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2733985#Post2733985
Maybe you need to read the link above and cut us newbies to F T/R some slack. We need to learn too, and asking questions about rules which aren't know to us is not a bad thing.
What would be great is a sticky with the F-T/R RULES at the top of this forum.
Here is the link:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf
The issues keeps coming up because the F T/R rules don't specifically state you can't use a brake, although it does say, in the fine print that all other high power rules must also be met, and if one has not read all the high power rules one did not see that muzzle brakes are generally disallowed.
I shot my first mid range f-tr match last weekend and had no idea I couldn't use a muzzle brake. No one complained except for one guy who set up RIGHT next to the brake, he was a good two or three feet in front of everyone else, and biased his postion to the far left in his box, and he was to the right of me. He got plastered, but than again, so did I. I'd rather take the recoil than all the dirt the brake showered me with each shot. I was told in the beginning I could not shoot for record, but was not told to go home.
I won't go again with the brake, but it does reduce recoil on my Tikka Tactical, which is a very light gun, even with th big honking Nightforce BR hanging on it. It (the brake)also tightens up my groups substantially, and I am thinking thats due to some sort of oscillation dampening effect hanging out there on the end of the barrel. I am not sure what to do about that...it is a big deal with regard to accuracy.
As to your recommendation after considerable intellectual strain and effort of "velcro" that's another dig at the OP...
My scores didn't count for record...but it was a good time nevertheless...a 554 out of 600 with 13 x's.
But it was only a 800, 900, 1000 yard match, and I was shooting at a normal 1000 yard NRA target, not an f class target, its a huge difference. I was squaded up with a match sight shooter so we didn't want to reface the target every pit change and slow the match down.
Maybe you've seen it time and again, but some of us haven't..
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2733985#Post2733985
Maybe you need to read the link above and cut us newbies to F T/R some slack. We need to learn too, and asking questions about rules which aren't know to us is not a bad thing.
What would be great is a sticky with the F-T/R RULES at the top of this forum.
Here is the link:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf
The issues keeps coming up because the F T/R rules don't specifically state you can't use a brake, although it does say, in the fine print that all other high power rules must also be met, and if one has not read all the high power rules one did not see that muzzle brakes are generally disallowed.
I shot my first mid range f-tr match last weekend and had no idea I couldn't use a muzzle brake. No one complained except for one guy who set up RIGHT next to the brake, he was a good two or three feet in front of everyone else, and biased his postion to the far left in his box, and he was to the right of me. He got plastered, but than again, so did I. I'd rather take the recoil than all the dirt the brake showered me with each shot. I was told in the beginning I could not shoot for record, but was not told to go home.
I won't go again with the brake, but it does reduce recoil on my Tikka Tactical, which is a very light gun, even with th big honking Nightforce BR hanging on it. It (the brake)also tightens up my groups substantially, and I am thinking thats due to some sort of oscillation dampening effect hanging out there on the end of the barrel. I am not sure what to do about that...it is a big deal with regard to accuracy.
As to your recommendation after considerable intellectual strain and effort of "velcro" that's another dig at the OP...
My scores didn't count for record...but it was a good time nevertheless...a 554 out of 600 with 13 x's.
But it was only a 800, 900, 1000 yard match, and I was shooting at a normal 1000 yard NRA target, not an f class target, its a huge difference. I was squaded up with a match sight shooter so we didn't want to reface the target every pit change and slow the match down.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bubbapug1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you've seen it time and again, but some of us haven't..
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2733985#Post2733985
Maybe you need to read the link above and cut us newbies to F T/R some slack. We need to learn too, and asking questions about rules which aren't know to us is not a bad thing.
What would be great is a sticky with the F-T/R RULES at the top of this forum.
Here is the link:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf
The issues keeps coming up because the F T/R rules don't specifically state you can't use a brake, although it does say, in the fine print that all other high power rules must also be met, and if one has not read all the high power rules one did not see that muzzle brakes are generally disallowed.
I shot my first mid range f-tr match last weekend and had no idea I couldn't use a muzzle brake. No one complained except for one guy who set up RIGHT next to the brake, he was a good two or three feet in front of everyone else, and biased his postion to the far left in his box, and he was to the right of me. He got plastered, but than again, so did I. I'd rather take the recoil than all the dirt the brake showered me with each shot. I was told in the beginning I could not shoot for record, but was not told to go home.
I won't go again with the brake, but it does reduce recoil on my Tikka Tactical, which is a very light gun, even with th big honking Nightforce BR hanging on it. It (the brake)also tightens up my groups substantially, and I am thinking thats due to some sort of oscillation dampening effect hanging out there on the end of the barrel. I am not sure what to do about that...it is a big deal with regard to accuracy.
As to your recommendation after considerable intellectual strain and effort of "velcro" that's another dig at the OP...
My scores didn't count for record...but it was a good time nevertheless...a 554 out of 600 with 13 x's.
But it was only a 800, 900, 1000 yard match, and I was shooting at a normal 1000 yard NRA target, not an f class target, its a huge difference. I was squaded up with a match sight shooter so we didn't want to reface the target every pit change and slow the match down.
</div></div>
That's a good score for the first time out. The main thing is that you enjoyed it and want to go back.
As you mentioned, F-Class is part of High Power, so it follows the High Power rules. In case anyone is curious, here is the specific rule as regards muzzle brakes-
3.16.1 Compensators and Muzzle Brakes - The use of compensators or muzzle brakes is prohibited. An
extension tube that has been installed on the muzzle of a rifle to extend the sight radius shall not be considered a
“muzzle brake.” The extension tube must have an interior diameter of .5 inches or greater and may have 1/4” x 1”
slots cut at 12 and 6 o’clock to remove cleaning patches. Threaded holes along the top of this tube for the
installation of sight bases will be allowed.
(a) Sound suppressors are not authorized for use in high power competition.
It is for this reason you see more FPR matches popping up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bubbapug1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you've seen it time and again, but some of us haven't..
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2733985#Post2733985
Maybe you need to read the link above and cut us newbies to F T/R some slack. We need to learn too, and asking questions about rules which aren't know to us is not a bad thing.
What would be great is a sticky with the F-T/R RULES at the top of this forum.
Here is the link:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf
The issues keeps coming up because the F T/R rules don't specifically state you can't use a brake, although it does say, in the fine print that all other high power rules must also be met, and if one has not read all the high power rules one did not see that muzzle brakes are generally disallowed.
I shot my first mid range f-tr match last weekend and had no idea I couldn't use a muzzle brake. No one complained except for one guy who set up RIGHT next to the brake, he was a good two or three feet in front of everyone else, and biased his postion to the far left in his box, and he was to the right of me. He got plastered, but than again, so did I. I'd rather take the recoil than all the dirt the brake showered me with each shot. I was told in the beginning I could not shoot for record, but was not told to go home.
I won't go again with the brake, but it does reduce recoil on my Tikka Tactical, which is a very light gun, even with th big honking Nightforce BR hanging on it. It (the brake)also tightens up my groups substantially, and I am thinking thats due to some sort of oscillation dampening effect hanging out there on the end of the barrel. I am not sure what to do about that...it is a big deal with regard to accuracy.
As to your recommendation after considerable intellectual strain and effort of "velcro" that's another dig at the OP...
My scores didn't count for record...but it was a good time nevertheless...a 554 out of 600 with 13 x's.
But it was only a 800, 900, 1000 yard match, and I was shooting at a normal 1000 yard NRA target, not an f class target, its a huge difference. I was squaded up with a match sight shooter so we didn't want to reface the target every pit change and slow the match down.
That's a good score for the first time out. The main thing is that you enjoyed it and want to go back.
As you mentioned, F-Class is part of High Power, so it follows the High Power rules. In case anyone is curious, here is the specific rule as regards muzzle brakes-
3.16.1 Compensators and Muzzle Brakes - The use of compensators or muzzle brakes is prohibited. An
extension tube that has been installed on the muzzle of a rifle to extend the sight radius shall not be considered a
“muzzle brake.” The extension tube must have an interior diameter of .5 inches or greater and may have 1/4” x 1”
slots cut at 12 and 6 o’clock to remove cleaning patches. Threaded holes along the top of this tube for the
installation of sight bases will be allowed.
(a) Sound suppressors are not authorized for use in high power competition.
It is for this reason you see more FPR matches popping up.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
Bubbapug1,
I was there as well, and that is a much better score than you might think, not even considering it was your first time out. The wind conditions that weekend were some of the most challenging I've experienced at Range 117. High score for that day was only a 571, so you did pretty darn well. FWIW, that match was LR, not mid range, which only go out to 600 yd and are held at Wilcox (Range 103).
I shot a comptition at 117 earlier this year where the individual next to me decided to shoot his [braked] .338 Lapua for kicks and giggles in the last match, not going for score. His first shot damn near took off my earphones, LOL. It wasn't that big of a deal and I adjusted to it, but there are many that really get their hackles up when someone brings a braked rifle to a match. Just depends on who your next to. If you had fun and want to continue shooting at the SMGC comps, there is a 3x600 yd match (mid range) coming up August 26th. You ought to come on out and shoot!
Bubbapug1,
I was there as well, and that is a much better score than you might think, not even considering it was your first time out. The wind conditions that weekend were some of the most challenging I've experienced at Range 117. High score for that day was only a 571, so you did pretty darn well. FWIW, that match was LR, not mid range, which only go out to 600 yd and are held at Wilcox (Range 103).
I shot a comptition at 117 earlier this year where the individual next to me decided to shoot his [braked] .338 Lapua for kicks and giggles in the last match, not going for score. His first shot damn near took off my earphones, LOL. It wasn't that big of a deal and I adjusted to it, but there are many that really get their hackles up when someone brings a braked rifle to a match. Just depends on who your next to. If you had fun and want to continue shooting at the SMGC comps, there is a 3x600 yd match (mid range) coming up August 26th. You ought to come on out and shoot!
B
bubbapug1
Guest
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
I was there the day before with you, Saturday - for the 800, 900, 1000 meet. You were next to me. I remember you said you liked the thump from the brake, but than again, your a former Marine.
You had a beautiful F class rifle, I had a stock Tikka. You were pulling target 4 and I was on Five. I had that Nightforce BR reticle info we were discussing.
The wind was not too bad on Saturday but it was the first time I have shot with wind on my nose and it caused me grief at 1000 yards. The reversals and gusts cost me a lot of points...and than there were the crosswinds!!!
I have shot the XTC matches since January with SMGC. I have 5 matches now and they are great. I love shooting iron sights, but beyond 600 yards I can't even see the target with my old eyes.
I have a A2 NNM Service rifle from RRA and a WOP NM Service rifle I will switch too as soon as I file down the front sight posts. Last meet was the first time I broke 700.
I also have made it to the 600 yard matches as that's one of my weak points with the service rifle. I want to hit at least 725 by the end of the year.
As you know Harry Harrison is the new xtc match director and he really goes out of his way to help you in any way possible to improve you scores...which is great because he is still nailing 780+ and its going to be a long time for me to even think about doing that. To have two or three former National Champions in the club is awesome as the osmosis for a beginner is great.
I am not sure if I will shoot F-XR. I'd like to shoot the Tikka but I need a better stock for it for ergonomics, and I need to lathe a dummy donut to replace the brake to keep the gun to 3/8 moa, because without it the gun is more like 0.6 moa.
Andre is stepping down as Match director which means next season may be pretty darn scarce if he isn't replaced quickly to set up next years schedule.
I was there the day before with you, Saturday - for the 800, 900, 1000 meet. You were next to me. I remember you said you liked the thump from the brake, but than again, your a former Marine.
You had a beautiful F class rifle, I had a stock Tikka. You were pulling target 4 and I was on Five. I had that Nightforce BR reticle info we were discussing.
The wind was not too bad on Saturday but it was the first time I have shot with wind on my nose and it caused me grief at 1000 yards. The reversals and gusts cost me a lot of points...and than there were the crosswinds!!!
I have shot the XTC matches since January with SMGC. I have 5 matches now and they are great. I love shooting iron sights, but beyond 600 yards I can't even see the target with my old eyes.
I have a A2 NNM Service rifle from RRA and a WOP NM Service rifle I will switch too as soon as I file down the front sight posts. Last meet was the first time I broke 700.
I also have made it to the 600 yard matches as that's one of my weak points with the service rifle. I want to hit at least 725 by the end of the year.
As you know Harry Harrison is the new xtc match director and he really goes out of his way to help you in any way possible to improve you scores...which is great because he is still nailing 780+ and its going to be a long time for me to even think about doing that. To have two or three former National Champions in the club is awesome as the osmosis for a beginner is great.
I am not sure if I will shoot F-XR. I'd like to shoot the Tikka but I need a better stock for it for ergonomics, and I need to lathe a dummy donut to replace the brake to keep the gun to 3/8 moa, because without it the gun is more like 0.6 moa.
Andre is stepping down as Match director which means next season may be pretty darn scarce if he isn't replaced quickly to set up next years schedule.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
This is a great thread. Several things to comment on and I do so entirely from my perspective as an old time HP shooter. I welcome everyone to shooting but Ya'll come has gotten a little out of balance.
When F class was new the conventional ( sling/ironsights )shooters made room for them to support expansion of the shooting sports. As I recall during that period all "F"ers
were squaded on a separate relay. I feel that is the best way as it eliminates most of the complaints expressed in this thread.
Another thing is safety. All shooters on the line need to be approximately shoulder to shoulder in alignment relative to the firing line. If as one poster stated " all muzzles are required to be over the front of the line this is unsafe in my opinion if one shooter ends up parallel to the muzzle of another because of it.
As far as the TFB and Vagina comments go it's all a matter of perspective. One might say the same thing about folks who need support for their rifle and assistance in countering the natural conditions to hit their target.
All depends on which game you are interested in playing.
Its not considerate to expect a conventional bullseye shooter to put up with brakes, excessive prep times, unlimited sighters, any more than it is to expect F class to move all their gear to the line and set up in the same time as the conventional shooters can.
Folks should squad shooters by catagory in Ya'll come matches or run catagory exclusive events. Conversley if I show up at a TAC match I will be prepared to roll with their program.Its just gotten to the point that the competitive objectives of the different events are starting to conflict with one another.
Not saying I'm right just giving my opinion.
This is a great thread. Several things to comment on and I do so entirely from my perspective as an old time HP shooter. I welcome everyone to shooting but Ya'll come has gotten a little out of balance.
When F class was new the conventional ( sling/ironsights )shooters made room for them to support expansion of the shooting sports. As I recall during that period all "F"ers
were squaded on a separate relay. I feel that is the best way as it eliminates most of the complaints expressed in this thread.
Another thing is safety. All shooters on the line need to be approximately shoulder to shoulder in alignment relative to the firing line. If as one poster stated " all muzzles are required to be over the front of the line this is unsafe in my opinion if one shooter ends up parallel to the muzzle of another because of it.
As far as the TFB and Vagina comments go it's all a matter of perspective. One might say the same thing about folks who need support for their rifle and assistance in countering the natural conditions to hit their target.
All depends on which game you are interested in playing.
Its not considerate to expect a conventional bullseye shooter to put up with brakes, excessive prep times, unlimited sighters, any more than it is to expect F class to move all their gear to the line and set up in the same time as the conventional shooters can.
Folks should squad shooters by catagory in Ya'll come matches or run catagory exclusive events. Conversley if I show up at a TAC match I will be prepared to roll with their program.Its just gotten to the point that the competitive objectives of the different events are starting to conflict with one another.
Not saying I'm right just giving my opinion.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
I've shot CLR matches off and on for 12 years mostly with a hot 300
wsm load Without break.I couldn't count the times the shooter next to me commented on
how demoralizing the blast was. Imagine shooting next to a 338 lm with a
break for 60 rounds + sighters. I think the NRA realizes many new shooters wouldn't return after that punishment.
I've shot CLR matches off and on for 12 years mostly with a hot 300
wsm load Without break.I couldn't count the times the shooter next to me commented on
how demoralizing the blast was. Imagine shooting next to a 338 lm with a
break for 60 rounds + sighters. I think the NRA realizes many new shooters wouldn't return after that punishment.
B
bubbapug1
Guest
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAT 4-82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Folks should squad shooters by catagory in Ya'll come matches or run catagory exclusive events. Conversley if I show up at a TAC match I will be prepared to roll with their program.Its just gotten to the point that the competitive objectives of the different events are starting to conflict with one another.
Not saying I'm right just giving my opinion.</div></div>
Agreed, I felt lucky that they let me shoot.
They also had segregated the classes due to pit and target issues. I happened to be in the interface squad because we had an uneven number of F class shooters and regular iron sight shooters. So my squad was a bastard combo.
Why the guy was set up next to me, jutting out a good 2-3' beyond all the other shooters is beyond me. sometimes a bit of situational awareness goes a long long way to make things safer and more comfortable. The berm edge is somewhat well defined....
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...820#Post3490820
I am taking the brake off now that I know the rules.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAT 4-82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Folks should squad shooters by catagory in Ya'll come matches or run catagory exclusive events. Conversley if I show up at a TAC match I will be prepared to roll with their program.Its just gotten to the point that the competitive objectives of the different events are starting to conflict with one another.
Not saying I'm right just giving my opinion.</div></div>
Agreed, I felt lucky that they let me shoot.
They also had segregated the classes due to pit and target issues. I happened to be in the interface squad because we had an uneven number of F class shooters and regular iron sight shooters. So my squad was a bastard combo.
Why the guy was set up next to me, jutting out a good 2-3' beyond all the other shooters is beyond me. sometimes a bit of situational awareness goes a long long way to make things safer and more comfortable. The berm edge is somewhat well defined....
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...820#Post3490820
I am taking the brake off now that I know the rules.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bubbapug1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
(snip)
As to your recommendation after considerable intellectual strain and effort of "velcro" that's another dig at the OP...
(snip)
</div></div>
Sorry for the delay in answering, I am just overwhelmed with work and honeydos/daddydos. One of the pitfalls of these fora is that one does not see the face or get an understanding from the poster on how a comment was intended. This is where the use of emoticons comes to the rescue, somewhat. My comment about Velcro was meant in jest; which is why I used the
emoticon. However to be sure that people would see that, my closing statement underlined it, to wit: "Seriously, I understand your problem, but it is what it is."
I will say that subsequent posts clearly illustrated the wisdom and intent behind the rule prohibiting muzzle brakes. High power competition is an individual competition (excluding team matches,) and interfering with other competitors is a big no-no.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bubbapug1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
(snip)
As to your recommendation after considerable intellectual strain and effort of "velcro" that's another dig at the OP...
(snip)
</div></div>
Sorry for the delay in answering, I am just overwhelmed with work and honeydos/daddydos. One of the pitfalls of these fora is that one does not see the face or get an understanding from the poster on how a comment was intended. This is where the use of emoticons comes to the rescue, somewhat. My comment about Velcro was meant in jest; which is why I used the
I will say that subsequent posts clearly illustrated the wisdom and intent behind the rule prohibiting muzzle brakes. High power competition is an individual competition (excluding team matches,) and interfering with other competitors is a big no-no.
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAT 4-82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it's all a matter of perspective. One might say the same thing about folks who need support for their rifle and assistance in countering the natural conditions to hit their target.</div></div>
Some of the Slingers NEVER will get over F-Class becoming the popular kid at school and thus the snark about rests and scopes.
And I'll bet I can get lined up on my Farley and bag before you can get your coat buckled. (Let alone the spotting scope, plotting sheets and hats with blinders.)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAT 4-82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it's all a matter of perspective. One might say the same thing about folks who need support for their rifle and assistance in countering the natural conditions to hit their target.</div></div>
Some of the Slingers NEVER will get over F-Class becoming the popular kid at school and thus the snark about rests and scopes.
And I'll bet I can get lined up on my Farley and bag before you can get your coat buckled. (Let alone the spotting scope, plotting sheets and hats with blinders.)
Re: Muzzle devices in F Class?
The rules are the rules.
I neither try to understand them nor explain them; such is not my role in life. I can but take care to ensure I am not running afoul of them.
A rule is only good or bad on the basis of whether or not it can be clearly understood, all other reasoning is arbitrary.
If I don't like a rule, I say so, and why; but I also think it's important to be able to offer a more reasonable alternative.
As I grow older, I sometimes think that some rules exist in an unreasonably arbitrary manner mainly because 'improving' them is impossible without introducing irreconcilable controversy.
This is what I think of as the "can of worms paradox".
I support rules, whether or not I agree with them. I have had significant diagnosed hearing loss due to shooting noise, and I have a prescribed hearing aid. But I will not criticise or complain about muzzle devices or heavy calibers.
I believe it is the shooter's own responsibility to provide themselves with adequate hearing protection. Before I blame anyone else for my hearing loss, I must take responsibility for my own failure to provide myself with adequate hearing protection.
In the end, it's my own dumb fault. Guns are loud. Potentially harmful noise is a customary and reasonably expected consequence of shooting.
Greg
The rules are the rules.
I neither try to understand them nor explain them; such is not my role in life. I can but take care to ensure I am not running afoul of them.
A rule is only good or bad on the basis of whether or not it can be clearly understood, all other reasoning is arbitrary.
If I don't like a rule, I say so, and why; but I also think it's important to be able to offer a more reasonable alternative.
As I grow older, I sometimes think that some rules exist in an unreasonably arbitrary manner mainly because 'improving' them is impossible without introducing irreconcilable controversy.
This is what I think of as the "can of worms paradox".
I support rules, whether or not I agree with them. I have had significant diagnosed hearing loss due to shooting noise, and I have a prescribed hearing aid. But I will not criticise or complain about muzzle devices or heavy calibers.
I believe it is the shooter's own responsibility to provide themselves with adequate hearing protection. Before I blame anyone else for my hearing loss, I must take responsibility for my own failure to provide myself with adequate hearing protection.
In the end, it's my own dumb fault. Guns are loud. Potentially harmful noise is a customary and reasonably expected consequence of shooting.
Greg
