Gunsmithing My first glass bedding job, need advice.

[Jeremybj]

Hey everyone,

So I decided I was going to try glass bedding my Marlin XS7 243. I wanted to try it on a cheap setup, in case I screwed it up. Well I took it apart today and I have mixed results and want some advice on what I should do...

Ok first question, the area in red is in front of the recoil lug, the bedding came off when I pulled it apart, I think it is because there wasn't enough material for it to stick to. Just so you know, I did grind off about 1/8 of an inch of material off of that area to make room for the bedding. Is that a concern or is that ok? The area in red is the front action screw area, the bedding didn't stop to the top part of the stock, is that a concern? Should I try smoothing the edges out or are they fine as is? Also, I have a slight void in the bedding right where the bottom yellow square is, is that ok?



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The area in orange is the rear action screw. I THINK it looks pretty good, any critiques?



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Do you folks think I should redo it or is it ok? At this point I am planning on trying to maybe redo it. Also that red area on the first picture the plastic is really soft, will that reharden?

 

[cfish36]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

I have only bedded a couple of rifles, but in my opinion I think that you did not have enough bedding compound, you may not have added enough hardener, and rather than just grind out some of the stock material; you should drill 1/8" holes in the stock to allow the bedding compound to mechanically grab the stock. There are some pics here on the hide, I will try to find them and post a link. I hope this helps.

Good luck

 

[Bob L Swagger]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1167022#Post1167022

 

[cfish36]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it wont push in the holes. when you try to cut it, it pulls out of the holes. now this is $1 a two little can set at the dollar store. but there is a little detent, a dimple right by the action hole. it will not fill that little hole, lol. i cant cut it flush with a credit card or an exacto. maybe dental floss. you might have better luck with yours. but clay will stay in there. ill hit the hobby lobby tomorrow. silly putty is reported to work. i wont need all the clay, lol.

i waxed it like 5 times and buffed it away lightly til it was metal and not cloudy. i think everyplace thats touching the actionis prepped. i think its all covered. i drilled holes in the stock and block... im scared but there is no reason to wait any longer. i got the doh to work. its not flush, but ill live with that. i do not have wd40 but i have some spray lubes. fingers crossed...

ok small test batch of JB with a screwdriver i waxed on some cardboard to see what the cure time is...

<span style="color: #FF0000">oh yeah, drilling holes in your stuff... wow</span>

ok. i know its jb weld and not devcon. but it was down to 48* overnight. im wearing a tshirt and the window is open. im not shivering, its not really cold for me, but thats the temp. i mixed at 2:35am and its 6:35 and i can still dent the sample puddle with my nail and few hour ago it would level still. now it holds the dents. 4 hours later. i may mix some with a bit more hardner. right now its 1:1 and im worried about it running out over the 4 hours it takes to get this stiff. its weird, i used devcon in the same small tubes, 1:1 like this, 1 oz each. it was just like this, took what seemed like forever to get thick. well i fell asleep. so somewhere after 4 hourd it set up, lol. the test sample did. time to give it a go for reals

oh i got the fakeplaydoh to work. kinda. it contracts as it dries. but get it in fresh, its good. right before you go in with the epoxy, wax the doh. geez, ive waxed my action 6 times, lol. but get the clay. im just making dams so its not as critical. i just need to get a better idea of curing time. after 4 hours i kinda fell asleep. </div></div>

 

[jasonZ]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

From what I'm seeing, just my opinion, it doesn't appear that any of that should have any real effect on the performance. It appears that the base area, where the action actually sits, is smooth and that is the most important part from what I've read. I'm not a pro and have only done 1, my personal rifle. I followed the sticky up top and it turned out well. I wouldn't worry about the area in front of the recoil lug, as from what I've seen/read most people don't go out in front unless its a real heavy/long barrel. I also used devcon as it was the most popular in my research. I did put some in the open void area in front of the lug to help try to lock it in place. I did a slight amount of grinding to remove a little material after the bedding job, just to make sure it wasn't touching the barrel or barrel nut.

If you're going to do anything to it, I would simply redo it all. Goodluck

 

[boudin]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

I'd grind it out and go at it again. +1 on adding more epoxy behind the lug area. Also, tape the receiver off at the show-line and above. After you lay the epoxy in the stock, flip the barreled action upside down and apply a coat of epoxy to the underside of it as well. That'll help reduce the likelihood of voids forming and also ensure that you get the epoxy all the way up to the show-line.

Keep in mind though, that it can be difficult to get a good bond between the epoxy and this type of stock material. I bedded my Rem 700 SPS (which is essentially the same material) and you really have to clean the areas you roughed up, thoroughly. You can see how the plastic in the area where the bedding pulled out, is kinda melted from the Dremel job. You have to really watch your speed and aggressiveness when grinding on this material. When it melts like that, something happens to that surface that does not favor epoxy adhesion. I'd hit it with some rough sand paper by hand after Dremeling/ drilling to remove that glaze and get a more desirable surface.

You also may have lost that chunk due to insufficient release agent application. I'd consider doubling the thickness of the area bedded in front of the lug for the simple sake of increasing your odds of getting a good bond.

Good luck to ya.

 

[ECH]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

How long did you let it set up before you pulled the action?

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

Do you guys prefer the putty or liquid devcon? I just got one of those miles gilbert bedrock systems for this one. I am going to try to put some kinda spray foam in front of the recoil lug smooth it out, then go over top of that to try to give a little more surface area. The action was COATED in release agent, so I don't know if it was a lack of it or what.

I have a question on the redo, I have some material in the recoil lug part where it was the plastic stock then the material filled in the extra area, am I going to have to try to remove some material or is that fine?

I really appreciate the feedback on it, I know this stock is not an ideal material, but I didn't want to ruin my HS Precision stock.

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

More questions, does the material stick well to itself after it has been ground down and roughed up? Also what do you mean by "clean up" the materials I roughed up? I thought I was supposed to like score them and scratch them and leave it like that so it has something to grab to?

 

[ECH]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

Drill several dozen shallow dimples in the area you want the bedding compound to stick. Then take a piece of coarse sandpaper and rough up those same areas. That should be enough to get adhesion.

In your yellow boxes it looks like you either didn't have enough material or you pulled the stock too early.

As far as bedding in front of the lug I don't think you need to do it unless you have a heavy/long barrel. I have a 26" M40 contour and I didn't bed in front of the lug when I did mine.

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

I let it sit for 24 hours before seperating. my buddy kinda tried to pry the barrel up while holding the forend down, that might have been part of the problem. Do you mean rough up the dimples with sandpaper or ruough up the un-dimpled area?

 

[jagged77]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeremybj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I let it sit for 24 hours before seperating. my buddy kinda tried to pry the barrel up while holding the forend down, that might have been part of the problem. Do you mean rough up the dimples with sandpaper or ruough up the un-dimpled area? </div></div>

What release agent did you use and did you make sure there was a good coating on the receiver? The action should pop out easily enough with a good upwards smack. A couple of coats of Kiwi natural shoe polish buffed to a shine works well - doesn't need to be smeared on thick.

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

I just used the release agent that came with the kit. I think he got a little overzelous trying to take it off, I was gonna try to give it a few taps on the bottom of the guide screws to pop it loose and I guess that plan was easier than mine. Can you use any color/kind of kiwi that comes in the can or is there a special type I should look for?

 

[jagged77]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

Just get hold of a can of Natural, that should do the trick. It can be applied to leave a very thin film (polish with kitchen roll) meaning a close fit can be achieved. It also breaks loose quite well (from Devcon steel putty anyway).

When breaking the action loose, have the rifle upside down in a vise (clamped on the barrel), with one hand apply upwards pressure to the forend of the stock (bracing against the barrel), then smack the underside of the barrel with your free hand. Should just pop free.

 

[boudin]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

Scroll down this page to the part with the video of him popping the barreled action out of the stock.
http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html

The clean up I was referring to is wiping down all the areas you dremeled/sanded really well, with a rag and some alcohol to get any residue/dust off the surface.

 

[LRI]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

A few tips on bedding:

1. Surface preparation is everything. A bedding job is only as good as the substrate its sticking to.

2. Mix your resin completely. Your making an emulsion. Its imperative that the resin completely blend with the hardener to ensure uniform curing and surface hardness. Stirring it in a cup is pure poison. Get a piece of glass or tile to mix your stuff on. Kneed it together like dough with a drywall applicator. This helps to avoid air being mixed into the stuff.

3. If you have a long work time (pot life) with your chosen compound, try warming the two parts before they are mixed. A pot of hot water works well for this. It'll reduce the viscosity and aid in blending the two. Once it hits the glass it'll cool very quickly so don't be over concerned about it starting to get hard on you. So long as your not using quick set epoxy you should be fine.

4. Apply a coat on the stock and the receiver. The coat on the receiver should be paper thin. This will help stuff stay put. Resin sticks to resin better than anything else. If your action is coated it'll help keep the surrounding layer where it should be.

5. Dam/mask anywhere you don't want it to go. Clay, tape, foam, plastic blocks, etc all works well.

6. Release agents. Everything has been tried. Many things will prevent the action from adhering to the resin, however surface finish can be an issue. Aerosol mold release agent works exceptionally well. It's DESIGNED for this. PAM isn't.

7. When splitting the two after it's cured, take a few moments to look for mechanical locks. Things like resin creeping into the gas check hole on the side of the action, creeping over the waterline edge of the receiver will also lock it into place. An action should never be "rocked" out of a bedding job when the lug is fitted 1:1. Your DESTROYING all your hard work. The lug will gall/scrape/chip the bedding around this area. instead attempt to lift evently and straight up/out. It's more work, requires more patience, but well worth the extra effort. I have a tool for this that makes it a snap. Prolly not practical unless your bedding several guns a month.

Last, patience, patience, patience. cell phones, TV, and screaming kids should be put on pause while doing this kind of work. Anything worth doing is worth doing once.

Good luck on future jobs.


C.

 

[ugsly]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

For release agent, Listen to Chad. I used Kiwi Natural but got some stuff from Chad. Made life so much easier.

Kc

 

[IkeEng]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

Throw up some pics of the final bed. I would be interested in seeing it.

 

[azimutha]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

Especially when skim-bedding (e.g. H-S stocks) I've drilled holes similar to this to ensure a mechanical lock:

And I've roughed up the area good with a rasp and a couple wood carving tools. I've had really good results sticking to Devcon 10110.

 

[doc76251]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

Looking at your "chip out" up front caused me to have a flash back to a particularly difficult Win Mod-70 that I later discovered had a recoil lug that was fatter on the bottom than it was on the top resulting in a chip out similar to that. Measure you recoil lugs and remove metal as needed.

You didn't get enough bedding under the gun hence the void. If it doesn't squeeze out you have too little but at that point you can't fix it any more until you pop it out and try again.

As Chad said, aerosol release agent was made for the job, PAM, shoe polish and such were not.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[dinc]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

You can't bed a plastic stock. Epoxy won't stick to it. Sorry.

 

[kjb2513]

Re: My first glass bedding job, need advice.

pillars 1st. Action 2nd. 2 pieces of masking tap on muzzle side of recoil lug, helps from mechanical lock. as far as epoxy goes ive tried everything. I like marine-tex. Release agent- Evercoat mold realease. Its a liquid that can be used as such or you can buy a Preval srayer for around 7.00$ and use it as an aresol. Very simple and very easy to clean. Also wd40 on qtips works well for wiping clean