Rifle Scopes My first high end optic. Need advice

[Engineerjet]

So I am constantly looking in the FAQ and although I'm sure this question had likely been asked, I can't find anything that helps.

I bought a Leupold mark 4 10x m1. Correct me if I am wrong but there seems to be two camps with optics. One for target precision shooting and one for hunting. I would want to do both so I am not sure in hindsight if I purchased the right glass for it. I have read that 10x is good enough to hit the target at 6-700, and even pushing 1000. If my goal is to get the tightest groups possible at 700-1000 yards, assuming equipment is not a factor (308 win), would my optic be good enough for this purpose?

The reason I chose the 10x is because I wanted to learn to use the mil method and wanted a fixed magnification to simplify things. Another reason I didn't want to go variable is because say the zoom is 3.5-20 and I want to fix it on 10, I didnt want to adjust it to "ball park 10" unless there are scopes that have fixed adjustments that "click"

I have read the optics selection thread but it pretty much just tells me of things I should be aware of but doesn't really answer my specific question.

So to summarize,
1.) is 10x good enough for tight groups out to 6-700 yards?
2.) are there variable scopes that have graduations in magnification instead of just placing it as close to the tick mark as you can eyeball. (if there are, are they proven enough to be worth it?)

 

[YN*Dotte]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

Ok, so it looks like you really want a fixed scope. Thats cool lots of people like them for their reliablility due to simplicity. Why not go with a ST10? Have it built your way, EREK knob, ERGO objective, GAP reticle, Mil/Mil and you will be set. The reasons not to go with a mark 4 currently? No zero stop, lack of reticle options, not near as tough as the mark 4, and it won't hold it's value as well. JMO

 

[Engineerjet]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YN*Dotte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so it looks like you really want a fixed scope. Thats cool lots of people like them for their reliablility due to simplicity. Why not go with a ST10? Have it built your way, EREK knob, ERGO objective, GAP reticle, Mil/Mil and you will be set. The reasons not to go with a mark 4 currently? No zero stop, lack of reticle options, not near as tough as the mark 4, and it won't hold it's value as well. JMO </div></div>

Thanks for the reply.
I am still a bit new so I am unsure what ST10 means. But I feel like a dry sponge just soaking up all this info! One thing that confuses me, you said reasons not to go with a mark 4 then say not nearly as tough as the mark 4?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

ST10 is made by USO, its their fixed 10 power and a great scope.

 

[carolinablue50]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

He misspoke....He's saying the Mark 4 is not nearly as tough as the USO ST10. The ST10 is made by US optics, and you can build it how you see fit.

 

[ccoker]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

fixed 10x for hunting?

 

[HoboHunter]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Engineerjet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am still a bit new so I am unsure what ST10 means. </div></div>

US Optics ST-10

 

[NoExpert]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

He meant ST-10...

US Optics ST-10 is a fixed 10X scope you can have built to suit you. I just ordered a USO SN-3 1.8-10X37 and the options from USO are great.

You plan to use it for target and hunting... With the USO you can get a US#1 knob (knurled) with cover to use for hunting and a US#1 M40 knob (scalloped) to use for target shooting (or just leave the cover off the US#1) The EREK knob allows you to setup a zero stop by moving the erector in relation to where the knob is set. This is practical for both hunting and target shooting since you can get back to your zero quickly. With the 44mm objective you can get an ERGO adjustable objective for parallax correction (more forgiving) or if you go with a 37mm objective you can get either ERGO or T-PAL which is a turret mounted parallax correction knob.

As for accuracy with a 10X at 600 to 700 yards, I shoot at that distance with 10X and don't have any issues I can blame on the equipment.

Since you did mention hunting... If I were configuring a USO scope for you I'd say ST-10, 37mm ERGO, EREK elevation knob, US#1 windage knob with cover and illuminated (I prefer red due to how the human eye works but green is good too). I'll leave the reticle and MIL or MOA up to you. On my last USO I had a JNG MIL and MIL knobs, on the one I just ordered I went GAP MIL and MIL knobs. Just makes sense to match the knobs to the reticle in my opinion.

 

[KeithR41]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

The MK 4 is not a high end optic. If you buy a high end optic you will quickly realize there is no substitute for quality, fixed power or variable.

Point is, if you can afford it by the best you can. The MK 4 will become a memory.

41

 

[steve123]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Engineerjet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I am constantly looking in the FAQ and although I'm sure this question had likely been asked, I can't find anything that helps.

I bought a Leupold mark 4 10x m1. Correct me if I am wrong but there seems to be two camps with optics. One for target precision shooting and one for hunting. I would want to do both so I am not sure in hindsight if I purchased the right glass for it. I have read that 10x is good enough to hit the target at 6-700, and even pushing 1000. If my goal is to get the tightest groups possible at 700-1000 yards, assuming equipment is not a factor (308 win), would my optic be good enough for this purpose?

The reason I chose the 10x is because I wanted to learn to use the mil method and wanted a fixed magnification to simplify things. Another reason I didn't want to go variable is because say the zoom is 3.5-20 and I want to fix it on 10, I didnt want to adjust it to "ball park 10" unless there are scopes that have fixed adjustments that "click"

I have read the optics selection thread but it pretty much just tells me of things I should be aware of but doesn't really answer my specific question.

So to summarize,
1.) is 10x good enough for tight groups out to 6-700 yards?
2.) are there variable scopes that have graduations in magnification instead of just placing it as close to the tick mark as you can eyeball. (if there are, are they proven enough to be worth it?) </div></div>

1. Yes you can get decent groups with 10x but higher mag makes more sense for said purposes.

2. In your reading,haven't you come across first focal plane variable scopes???.They solve the whole issue of having to have the mag at a specific setting for holdovers.IMO if you do get another scope and want to try mils then get matching mil turrets with the mil reticle.

3

What if you're hunting with the fixed power 10x and a big buck jumps out up close and you can't get it in the small field of view in time for the shot? Sorry...I might get flamed for this statement but I think you have a scope that does neither of your criteria well.

 

[Engineerjet]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

I know its not the highest end, but considering my last scope was 300, this is considered high end for me.

 

[Boosted2.0]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

I dunno about a 10x fixed.... your FOV at 100 yards is going to be pretty small to where it will be hard to get on target. Any closer than 100 its going to be TOO small. I went with a SN-3 1.8x10 because I wanted the ability to zoom out for closer ranged shots. Its something you might consider...

 

[fdkay]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

A couple of things here.
Luepold does not find much favor here, the price you pay for their hardware is not indicative of the quality you get, unless you are active duty mil or federal le and get the 45% discount, then they will be worth what you pay for them.

The MK4 is not a terrible scope, it is intended to put holes in man sized targets, NOT shoot bench rest.
For shooting tiny groups at extended ranges, you will probably need more magnification.

With that being said, it sound like you are a new shooter, let me clue you in on something, you most likely won't be shooting "tiny groups" at 700 yards any time soon and your scope will serve you just fine as is.

For hunting, I like a lower end of around 3 or 4 power, there are several scopes out there that have a 5 fold or even 6 fold magnification range.
For example, the Weaver Tactical 3-15x FFp scope would be far better suited to a multi-task role than the fixed power scope you chose. They can be had for 750 bucks.

I chose the IOR 3-18 (the mil/mil weavers were not available yet) but it is substantially more expensive (about 1500).

The Viper PST 4-16 would also be a good choice in a FFP scope, with prices around 850.

Of course all of this is a bit late, as you already bought the scope, either return it for a refund, or use it to learn on. It wasn't neccesarily a mistake to buy it, but you bought the wrong scope for your intended purpose.

 

[Engineerjet]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

Ahhhh, so if it is FFP, it doesnt matter what zoom I am in and I can still use the mil method? I learn something new every day on this site.

 

[Engineerjet]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A couple of things here.
Luepold does not find much favor here, the price you pay for their hardware is not indicative of the quality you get, unless you are active duty mil or federal le and get the 45% discount, then they will be worth what you pay for them.

The MK4 is not a terrible scope, it is intended to put holes in man sized targets, NOT shoot bench rest.
For shooting tiny groups at extended ranges, you will probably need more magnification.

With that being said, it sound like you are a new shooter, let me clue you in on something, you most likely won't be shooting "tiny groups" at 700 yards any time soon and your scope will serve you just fine as is.

For hunting, I like a lower end of around 3 or 4 power, there are several scopes out there that have a 5 fold or even 6 fold magnification range.
For example, the Weaver Tactical 3-15x FFp scope would be far better suited to a multi-task role than the fixed power scope you chose. They can be had for 750 bucks.

I chose the IOR 3-18 (the mil/mil weavers were not available yet) but it is substantially more expensive (about 1500).

The Viper PST 4-16 would also be a good choice in a FFP scope, with prices around 850.

Of course all of this is a bit late, as you already bought the scope, either return it for a refund, or use it to learn on. It wasn't neccesarily a mistake to buy it, but you bought the wrong scope for your intended purpose. </div></div>

What would you say would be the intended purpose of the scope I bought?

 

[fdkay]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Engineerjet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A couple of things here.
Luepold does not find much favor here, the price you pay for their hardware is not indicative of the quality you get, unless you are active duty mil or federal le and get the 45% discount, then they will be worth what you pay for them.

The MK4 is not a terrible scope, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">it is intended to put holes in man sized targets, NOT shoot bench rest.</span></span></span>or shooting tiny groups at extended ranges, you will probably need more magnification.

With that being said, it sound like you are a new shooter, let me clue you in on something, you most likely won't be shooting "tiny groups" at 700 yards any time soon and your scope will serve you just fine as is.

For hunting, I like a lower end of around 3 or 4 power, there are several scopes out there that have a 5 fold or even 6 fold magnification range.
For example, the Weaver Tactical 3-15x FFp scope would be far better suited to a multi-task role than the fixed power scope you chose. They can be had for 750 bucks.

I chose the IOR 3-18 (the mil/mil weavers were not available yet) but it is substantially more expensive (about 1500).

The Viper PST 4-16 would also be a good choice in a FFP scope, with prices around 850.

Of course all of this is a bit late, as you already bought the scope, either return it for a refund, or use it to learn on. It wasn't neccesarily a mistake to buy it, but you bought the wrong scope for your intended purpose. </div></div>

What would you say would be the intended purpose of the scope I bought? </div></div>

Kinda thought I mentioned that.
It is a tactical scope, offering the simplicity of fixed power. Turrets do not match reticle.

 

[Jerkface11]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

IDK about using a 10x for hunting. I usually have my hunting scopes turned down all the way.

 

[LRS_Ranger]

Re: My first high end optic. Need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KeithR41</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The MK 4 is not a high end optic. If you buy a high end optic you will quickly realize there is no substitute for quality, fixed power or variable.

Point is, if you can afford it by the best you can. The MK 4 will become a memory.

41 </div></div> I agree... HOWEVER, I think that a Mk 4 is an excellent starting spot for a newer shooter. I just now after 4 years of shooting a Mk4 got an SN3. Do I like the SN3 better, of course, but in all the time shooting with my Mk4 I don't think that it was a handicap. However, I am getting into shooting tactical competitions, and the FFP of the USO is far more useful.

For me the Mk4 was a reliable scope, with pretty good glass, that tracked right and allowed me to learn how to shoot. As far as it not being able to turn tiny groups, bullshit. I regularly turn .5 groups with my .308, and some groups I was testing with my Grendel last weekend (with the Mk4 on top) were going into the same hole. Frankly, I will most likely use the Mk4 for load development on any rifle because the SFP reticle is quite a bit thinner when zoomed way in.. which doesn't really matter for me in real life circumstances, but it does seem to make load development a tad bit easier. Anymore I hate shooting groups, and I only do it for load development. I would rather shoot at painted rocks and steels at 700.

I'm a big proponent of buy once, cry once. However, if you are about to plunk down 3 grand on a scope, you damn well want to get exactly what you need, and as a newer LRshooter you might not know exactly what you need yet. Get some time with the Leupold, figure out your style, and then get what you feel is necessary. Then move up to the USO and spec it EXACTLY the way you want.. USO's really do kick ass! The Mk4 is a great stepping point. I know a guy (who wins local precision tactical matches) who would like to move up to USO or NF, but since he can't find anything lacking in Leupolds he still runs them exclusively.