My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

[Broz]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot1760</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broz,


So my question here is this...If I was shooting 1,400, I think for my edge I would use like 1 1/2 minutes at least. So where did you get the .75? did you find that somewhere in a program or is it just experience.

Im just wondering why my edge and your gun would be so different???

thanks
zman</div></div>

zman, In my first post I said " dialed 1 moa left for spin drift" did I miss-quote that somewhere else? Anyway, I did use 1 moa and it was simply from my experience. I do have a program that will compute SD but I don't use it anymore. I just use what I feel is right for the distance. As you can see from the hit, it is 3 3/4" low and 6 3/4" right. So another .5 moa would have been a better choice. ( probably ) I say probably because this rifle and I typically shoot .5 moa. So the next one could have been 7 1/2" left. For the next cold bore attempt at this distance, I will be useing more SD., probably 1.25 moa. So our rifles are not all that different. Also, I have found that it is nearly impossible to get a 0 wind condition anywhere. It seens there is always a little air movement somewhere if you look hard enough. Even a 1/2 mph wind at this distance would have a noticable bullet drift.

Jeff

 

[shoot1760]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

Jeff,

A couple things...you did not miss quote, I misread..you did say 1 moa...but this does make sense now..with my gun I would have used 1.5 for SD. A big big HOWEVER.....Like you, when we shoot, the freaking wind is always doing something and if it doesn't seem to anything, mirage is doing it's worm dance.

So for me,,,it is so rare that I am in perfectly dead conditions and I dope for SD only. consequently, just like you, Im doping for wind and SD is just part of the process. Your post was a good read for me, cause it really validates where I need to be at 1,400 and beyond in perfectly dead wind conditions.

It's really funny how so many people get caught up on spin drift. If we miss our wind estimation by even 1 mph, we really negate the idea of spin drift. So I really concentrate on the wind aspect of long range more than anything else.

cheers
zman

 

[shoot1760]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

Jeff, your statement below.......

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Please don't take this as a brag, I am just happy as can be. I am confident the .338 Berger Hybrids have taken my affective range to the next level</span></span>

I may wish to try the new bergers, and I have not read all your threads, can you explaine the differences (in terms of actual grouping) at longer ranges between the berger and the SMK's?? And how this has taken your range to the next level??

thanks
zman

 

[Broz]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot1760</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I may wish to try the new bergers, and I have not read all your threads, can you explaine the differences (in terms of actual grouping) at longer ranges between the berger and the SMK's?? And how this has taken your range to the next level??

thanks
zman</div></div>

Consistancy, the rifle will shoot these into .5 moa to 1400 yards on a very regular basis. And they are less affected by the wind. Now, I have nothing to say bad about the 300 SMK's. They are grate bullets and I have had great success with them. The groups are good with the 300 smk but better with the Hybrids. I attribute this to, that they are less affected by wind. I shot them both at 800 in a comparison with left to right wind. Shot 3 smk's drove up marked the hits with a marker. Returned to the rifle, rechecked the wind and it had picked up 1~2 mph. Shot 3 Hybrids with out touching the scope with same point of aim. The hybrid group was 7~8" left of the SMK's.

Jeff

 

[vman]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

Fantastic shooting, nothing but astounding

Nice stick by the way

 

[shoot1760]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

Broz, Verdugo60 posted this below.....

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Good Shooting man, I just got to shoot at 1600 yards for the first time. No pic's though, and if I had them I would be too scared to post and violite one of the "group size rules."</span></span>

Like Verdugo60, I have some fotos of targets from 1,450 and 1,600 yards I wanted to post here, but I was scared I would violate the <span style="font-weight: bold">"group size"</span> rule here. In fact, I was on the long range hunting site and saw a guy post about getting kicked off here for not meeting the 5-shot rule.

I'm all for posting data like you posted. I like to see a cold bore early morning or evening shot at distances like this. I don't need to see 5 splats to learn something. One splat is good for me.

Im just wondering if we can post like this, if so I may do the same. Did you get any nasty grams from anyone on this post??????

Also, Im looking at ordering some Bergers,,where did you get yours???

zman

 

[Broz]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot1760</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broz, I wanted to post here, but I was scared I would violate the <span style="font-weight: bold">"group size"</span> rule here.
I'm all for posting data like you posted. I like to see a cold bore early morning or evening shot at distances like this. I don't need to see 5 splats to learn something. One splat is good for me.

Im just wondering if we can post like this, if so I may do the same. Did you get any nasty grams from anyone on this post??????

Also, Im looking at ordering some Bergers,,where did you get yours???

zman</div></div>

1760, I have never gotten a message saying I was outside a rule. I don't post many pics here, but if I broke a forum rule I am not aware of it, and I appologize for my ignorance.

In think this question would be better asked to a Moderator than I.

But, I was not posting a picture of a "group" it was a cold bore hit at distance. Maybe they are viewed to be different.


The reason I posted this thread is, it represents what I strive to accomplish. I now have close to 200 of the berger Hybrids down range. My groups are usually 3~5 shots. I really like 3 as I cherish barrel life and stay clear of the extra heat. Once I get them dialed in. Then I spend a lot of time on the cold bore 1st round shots at many different distances. This is how I like to practice and prepair for hunting season. It helps me obtain the level of confidence I need to engage game at 1000 plus.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot1760</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broz, Also, Im looking at ordering some Bergers,,where did you get yours???

zman </div></div>

I got the first ones at Sinclair Reloading. The rest I have boughten off some individuals that felt they would not work in there rifles after they purchased them. I now have 700 or more on the shelf. I advise anyone who is sending a 300 gr .338 under 3000 FPS to give them a chance. If I look for only first hand info, I see way more of them working well than not. Plus, even though I have taken PILES of ame with the trusty 300 SMK, my expansion tests at 1200 yards show the Bergers to be a better hunting bullet for extended distances where the bullet could get below 1800 fps upon impact.

JMO

Jeff

 

[shoot1760]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

I think you are right...since it was a first round cold bore hit..they probably let it slide...I thin they call for 5 shot groups at 300 yards and better. and there is a group size as well,,cant recall if its 2 moa or not...

On the Berger thing...do you know anyone who wishes to get rid of some??? Did you find yours on posts or just friends??/

zman

 

[Broz]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot1760</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On the Berger thing...do you know anyone who wishes to get rid of some??? Did you find yours on posts or just friends??/

zman </div></div>

http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

 

[shoot1760]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

I just orderd 100 bergers from Powder valley,,thanks....their shipping was half the cost that sinclair quoted me....

I will load some test rounds up this weekend shoot some groups at 100 and post the results...Prob wont go to 1,400 until next week, but should have good long range data by the end of next week.

chow and thanks,
zman

 

[Broz]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

With a big long bullet like these, I would not spend too many at 100 yards. Before you nix a load, I sure would test it at 200~300. I have seen a load shoot 1.5" at 100 and still shoot 1.5" at 300 many times over.

JMO

Jeff

 

[thekubiaks]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

Sorry to get off track a little on this thread but it kind of pertains....

Broz, a couple quick question about your .338

Are you using Lapua Brass??

Do you neck turn, if so, what wall thickness??

What is the loaded round neck dimension??

Did you order a tight chamber??

Did you specify any freebore for the Berger 300gr bullet??

Thanks!! I'm putting my order in for a reamer and Krieger barrel and need some details.

 

[shoot1760]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

Broz,

I've always done my load development at 100 and then taken it out to further distances....Perhaps I should just start at 300 yards as I work my way up to more powder...What do you think??

thekubiaks,,,,

I can't speak for Broz and his lapua...but the guys that I have spoken to that are having luck with the Berger 300 (in the 338 edge), are not doing anything but loading the bullet just like we're loading the 300 smk. The only thing different is the seating. We are getting reports from just on the lands to .015 off the lands.

I should have my bullets here in two days and I will post my findings..

zman

 

[Broz]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thekubiaks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry to get off track a little on this thread but it kind of pertains....

Broz, a couple quick question about your .338

Are you using Lapua Brass??

Do you neck turn, if so, what wall thickness??

What is the loaded round neck dimension??

Did you order a tight chamber??

Did you specify any freebore for the Berger 300gr bullet??

Thanks!! I'm putting my order in for a reamer and Krieger barrel and need some details. </div></div>

Yes, Lapua brass and now fired 9 times.

No neck turning and the necks have stayed ver consistant in the .0005 to .001 max for variance.

Neck of loaded round. .3665"

No, sandard chamber and redding shelf dies.

No special free bore. It was chambered with 300 SMK's in mind and the Bergers are now being used. The Bergers shot well also at the same o-give as the SMK"s. that was .062" off lands. I moved them in and didn't see a huge change in accuracy. But contrairy to what I suspected they produces single diget ES at .015" off lands. So I stayed there. Velocity was up 20 fps too with the sloser seating to the lands. I have had several grps at 1000 + with under 2" verticle.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot1760</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broz,

I've always done my load development at 100 and then taken it out to further distances....Perhaps I should just start at 300 yards as I work my way up to more powder...What do you think??

zman </div></div>

I get a close zero and take the development to 300 right off the bat. If a load shows promise I shoot 3~5 at 500. The proof is in the pudding. A ragged hole at 100 does not get the smile from me like a 1.5" grp at 500. Calm conditions of course.

Jeff

 

[Moadster]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

Gorgeous location!

 

[flyboy]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

 

[lovain1932]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

Great shooting nice shooting stick too I might add

 

[Ryo]

Re: My Longest First Round Cold Bore Hit to Date

Wish I had a place like this to shoot at..

 

[Broz]

I started this thread 3 yrs ago. I think I need to update it.

My 338 LM has been replaced with a Defensive Edge LRKM in .338 Terminator +P sending 300 Berger OTM's at 3200 fps MV. This rifle has already proven to me it is a true long range Hammer. 2 weeks ago my son and I were shooting and I put a cold bore hit on a 1 moa rock at 2422 yards. We then took turns each putting a couple more on it.

Then last week I engaged a 1/2 moa rock at 2272 yards. The first shot landed about 1/2 moa right of center. The second was a direct hit, 3rd went just over the top and 4th was another hit. All shots were with in 3/4 moa of center mass. Very happy with the LRKM.

Jeff

 

[Tango down]

I started this thread 3 yrs ago. I think I need to update it.

My 338 LM has been replaced with a Defensive Edge LRKM in .338 Terminator +P sending 300 Berger OTM's at 3200 fps MV. This rifle has already proven to me it is a true long range Hammer. 2 weeks ago my son and I were shooting and I put a cold bore hit on a 1 moa rock at 2422 yards. We then took turns each putting a couple more on it.

Then last week I engaged a 1/2 moa rock at 2272 yards. The first shot landed about 1/2 moa right of center. The second was a direct hit, 3rd went just over the top and 4th was another hit. All shots were with in 3/4 moa of center mass. Very happy with the LRKM.

Jeff

Jeff
Awesome shooting, awesome rifle and loads; an accurate cold bore shot hit always brings a smile on the shooter's face, congrats.
I am rather new in the ELR game, Sako TRG 42, .338 LM, 1:10 barrel twist. Contacted Berger Tech support for info on their 250 and 300 gr Hybrid OTM bullets, to know if I should work on loads development at 100, 300, or 500 yards, as a few LR/ELR shooters mentioned that the "big pills" may not have time to stabilize at 100 yards.
This is Berger's answer.

Thank you for getting with us at Berger Bullets. Here at Berger, we recommend to do your load testing at 100 yards. You would use this yardage for any bullet design that we currently offer as your load testing baseline reference. You would also treat your .308 Winchester, and your .338 Lapua the same by first starting your load testing by working for the load velocity that you are wanting to work with, and then to fine tune the load out for the optimum bullet seating depth. This would allow you to do this at the shorter range so that you can conserve your components, and barrel life. If you do not see the accuracy that you are looking for, a change to a different powder may be in order. If you have our Berger Reloading Manual, we do have a lot of this information available for you to work with in working you loads up for your rifles. Please do not hesitate to get back with us if we can be of further assistance for you.


Kind Regards,
Berger Bullets Technical Support Team
[email protected]

Obviously you do not need this but FNGs can use it for sure, I know I did. Looking forward to stretch the .338, still on the load development phase for now, trying different powders, as H1000 is still MIA. So far looks like the TRG likes the 300 Berger and the 300 Scenar but also had good accuracy results with factory Lapua 250 Lockbase.
Once again, great shooting.

 

[Broz]

Once again, great shooting.

Thank you.

I have seen many many times where a 338 with a 300 gr bullet will shoot cvonsistent 1" groups at 100 yards. That is not good enough to suit me. What I have learned is I can take that same rifle that is shooting consistent 1" and a few groups under at 100, and shoot it at 200 and 300 and it still shoots 1" or under. If you are fighting a 338 with 300's to shoot 1/2 moa at 100 move out to 200 or 300 and see what you get. I too believe the large bullets in some barrels and twists need time to find their grove.

My go to load in the 330 LM is Lapua brass, a CCI 250, and H-1000 (start at 88 gr and work up toward 92 or 92.5 if you can get there) Seat a 300 Berger -.015" off the land and see what you get.

Jeff

 

[Tango down]

Thank you.

I have seen many many times where a 338 with a 300 gr bullet will shoot cvonsistent 1" groups at 100 yards. That is not good enough to suit me. What I have learned is I can take that same rifle that is shooting consistent 1" and a few groups under at 100, and shoot it at 200 and 300 and it still shoots 1" or under. If you are fighting a 338 with 300's to shoot 1/2 moa at 100 move out to 200 or 300 and see what you get. I too believe the large bullets in some barrels and twists need time to find their grove.

My go to load in the 330 LM is Lapua brass, a CCI 250, and H-1000 (start at 88 gr and work up toward 92 or 92.5 if you can get there) Seat a 300 Berger -.015" off the land and see what you get.

Jeff

Jeff
Sounds just like what the doctor prescribed; still working on different powders, as H1000 MIA. Should receive some 300 Berger soon, hopefully.

 

[mpw20]

Wow, a mile long "range" from your driveway, and it looks like that? you keep advertising that and youre going to have a lot of neighbors soon. Beautiful spot. Excelent cold bore shot.

 

[Broz]

Wow, a mile long "range" from your driveway, and it looks like that? you keep advertising that and youre going to have a lot of neighbors soon. Beautiful spot. Excelent cold bore shot.

Thanks! I moved though. Just a couple miles down the road in a sweet little spot we built a new home. I went 2500 yards from the yard the other night and could go a bit further. Gotta love Montana.

Jeff

 

[RTK]

Bet you were smiling for hours after that shot

 

[jerry1]

Broz
This is a great cold bore shot. Very very few shooters have made that type of shot in their entire lives. I live on the west side of Montana. In Coram, close to the park. I hope to be trying the .338 Berger in a heavy machine rest to see what can be done. That probably won't happen before next summer.We have trouble getting the distance on this side. However, we get many days where the wind is perfect. Again a hell of a shot!

 

[Fotis]

Jeff nice work! What does your LM weigh?

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Some solid shootin! I am taking my .308 out to 1300, 1500, and hopefully a mile next weekend. I can't wait to post some pictures! Gotta love states that aren't very developed! Oklahoma being one of them (although that is changing quickly).