I had runout issues with my RCBS die using 168gr A-max bullets so i ordered a die from Hornady that is made for the A-max. Well, i am not too freak'in happy right now, The runout went from between .005 and .007 to .010 with the new die WTF!! i tried two different presses, a Dillon and a Lee, different brass, new, old, nickle plated it did not matter. .010 runout from a die that is designed for this bullet, i dont get it! WTF am i doing wrong? Sorry for the rant i am just ''a little '' pissed off at the moment.
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Re: My new Hornady seating die
I know that I had to order a special seater stem for the A-Max not just the die. Did you get the special A-Max stem with the die?
I know that I had to order a special seater stem for the A-Max not just the die. Did you get the special A-Max stem with the die?
Re: My new Hornady seating die
Yes, i ordered the A-max stem with the die. Before i installed the stem into the die i checked it with a bullet and it held it very securely so i was pretty confident my runout problem would be cured.I was sadly mistaken.
Yes, i ordered the A-max stem with the die. Before i installed the stem into the die i checked it with a bullet and it held it very securely so i was pretty confident my runout problem would be cured.I was sadly mistaken.
Re: My new Hornady seating die
Check your neck runout after you size the brass. It could be some of the problem. Just a thought.
Chris H.
Check your neck runout after you size the brass. It could be some of the problem. Just a thought.
Chris H.
Re: My new Hornady seating die
How tight is your neck? Ive seen too tight a neck cause runout. I always thought more than .001 neck tension was too much. A lead bullet makes a poor expander.
How tight is your neck? Ive seen too tight a neck cause runout. I always thought more than .001 neck tension was too much. A lead bullet makes a poor expander.
Re: My new Hornady seating die
If you are shooting fire formed brass and only neck sizing it, you should never see better runout results because all of the irregularities are now on the inside of the neck. At least that is my thinking.
I think your problem stems from either neck sizing it down too much and the seater die is working too hard to seat the bullet and essentially crushing the neck/shoulder or your necks vary greatly in thickness. More than likely the first. However uneven necks are going to cause runout 100% of the time.
What are you using to neck size? Also what tool are you using to check runout?
If you are shooting fire formed brass and only neck sizing it, you should never see better runout results because all of the irregularities are now on the inside of the neck. At least that is my thinking.
I think your problem stems from either neck sizing it down too much and the seater die is working too hard to seat the bullet and essentially crushing the neck/shoulder or your necks vary greatly in thickness. More than likely the first. However uneven necks are going to cause runout 100% of the time.
What are you using to neck size? Also what tool are you using to check runout?
Re: My new Hornady seating die
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had runout issues with my RCBS die using 168gr A-max bullets so i ordered a die from Hornady that is made for the A-max. Well, i am not too freak'in happy right now, The runout went from between .005 and .007 to .010 with the new die WTF!! i tried two different presses, a Dillon and a Lee, different brass, new, old, nickle plated it did not matter. .010 runout from a die that is designed for this bullet, i dont get it! WTF am i doing wrong? Sorry for the rant i am just ''a little '' pissed off at the moment. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, i ordered the A-max stem with the die. Before i installed the stem into the die i checked it with a bullet and it held it very securely so i was pretty confident my runout problem would be cured.I was sadly mistaken. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Brass has zero runout after i neck size. </div></div>
Send it back, that's what I did.
In your previous post I suggested buying a Redding Competition Bullet Seater for a very good reason, it has proven to be the best seater I have used including RCBS, Hornady and Forster bullet seaters. Testing done by people more knowledgeable than myself has shown it to be the best seater minimizing and reducing runout.
That said have you tried loading a fully processed and sized case that shows minimal to zero runout but done it empty?
HTH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had runout issues with my RCBS die using 168gr A-max bullets so i ordered a die from Hornady that is made for the A-max. Well, i am not too freak'in happy right now, The runout went from between .005 and .007 to .010 with the new die WTF!! i tried two different presses, a Dillon and a Lee, different brass, new, old, nickle plated it did not matter. .010 runout from a die that is designed for this bullet, i dont get it! WTF am i doing wrong? Sorry for the rant i am just ''a little '' pissed off at the moment. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, i ordered the A-max stem with the die. Before i installed the stem into the die i checked it with a bullet and it held it very securely so i was pretty confident my runout problem would be cured.I was sadly mistaken. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Brass has zero runout after i neck size. </div></div>
Send it back, that's what I did.
In your previous post I suggested buying a Redding Competition Bullet Seater for a very good reason, it has proven to be the best seater I have used including RCBS, Hornady and Forster bullet seaters. Testing done by people more knowledgeable than myself has shown it to be the best seater minimizing and reducing runout.
That said have you tried loading a fully processed and sized case that shows minimal to zero runout but done it empty?
HTH!
Re: My new Hornady seating die
I am using a Lee neck sizer and a Sinclair concentricity gauge with a Federal dial indicator. When i reload 30-06 for my Rem 03a3 i use standard Hornady 155 gr. bullets, fire formed Mil surp brass with a Lee neck sizer and seater. With this set up i am getting at the most .002 runout. After looking at the Hornady die the bullet is held in alignment within the die but there is almost no support of the case body during the seating process. I could be making a bigger issue out of this then need be, i dont shoot long range often enough where concentricity really makes a difference. Being a Toolmaker and obsessed with precision i just want to make the best ammo that i can.
I am using a Lee neck sizer and a Sinclair concentricity gauge with a Federal dial indicator. When i reload 30-06 for my Rem 03a3 i use standard Hornady 155 gr. bullets, fire formed Mil surp brass with a Lee neck sizer and seater. With this set up i am getting at the most .002 runout. After looking at the Hornady die the bullet is held in alignment within the die but there is almost no support of the case body during the seating process. I could be making a bigger issue out of this then need be, i dont shoot long range often enough where concentricity really makes a difference. Being a Toolmaker and obsessed with precision i just want to make the best ammo that i can.
Re: My new Hornady seating die
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had runout issues with my RCBS die using 168gr A-max bullets so i ordered a die from Hornady that is made for the A-max. Well, i am not too freak'in happy right now, The runout went from between .005 and .007 to .010 with the new die WTF!! i tried two different presses, a Dillon and a Lee, different brass, new, old, nickle plated it did not matter. .010 runout from a die that is designed for this bullet, i dont get it! WTF am i doing wrong? Sorry for the rant i am just ''a little '' pissed off at the moment. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, i ordered the A-max stem with the die. Before i installed the stem into the die i checked it with a bullet and it held it very securely so i was pretty confident my runout problem would be cured.I was sadly mistaken. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Brass has zero runout after i neck size. </div></div>
Send it back, that's what I did.
In your previous post I suggested buying a Redding Competition Bullet Seater for a very good reason, it has proven to be the best seater I have used including RCBS, Hornady and Forster bullet seaters. Testing done by people more knowledgeable than myself has shown it to be the best seater minimizing and reducing runout.
That said have you tried loading a fully processed and sized case that shows minimal to zero runout but done it empty?
HTH!
</div></div>Yes, when setting up the new die i was using empty fully processed brass that was new or that had a few previous reloads. Again, the necks had no runout prior to bullet seating.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had runout issues with my RCBS die using 168gr A-max bullets so i ordered a die from Hornady that is made for the A-max. Well, i am not too freak'in happy right now, The runout went from between .005 and .007 to .010 with the new die WTF!! i tried two different presses, a Dillon and a Lee, different brass, new, old, nickle plated it did not matter. .010 runout from a die that is designed for this bullet, i dont get it! WTF am i doing wrong? Sorry for the rant i am just ''a little '' pissed off at the moment. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, i ordered the A-max stem with the die. Before i installed the stem into the die i checked it with a bullet and it held it very securely so i was pretty confident my runout problem would be cured.I was sadly mistaken. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Brass has zero runout after i neck size. </div></div>
Send it back, that's what I did.
In your previous post I suggested buying a Redding Competition Bullet Seater for a very good reason, it has proven to be the best seater I have used including RCBS, Hornady and Forster bullet seaters. Testing done by people more knowledgeable than myself has shown it to be the best seater minimizing and reducing runout.
That said have you tried loading a fully processed and sized case that shows minimal to zero runout but done it empty?
HTH!
</div></div>Yes, when setting up the new die i was using empty fully processed brass that was new or that had a few previous reloads. Again, the necks had no runout prior to bullet seating.
Re: My new Hornady seating die
Two more questions. What's the inside diameter of the neck after sizing? The Lee neck die is the collett die? (sorry I'm not too familiar with their products)
PS I understand the compulsion to make it perfect too... it's frustrating when it doesn't turn out that way and you think you have done it all right.
Two more questions. What's the inside diameter of the neck after sizing? The Lee neck die is the collett die? (sorry I'm not too familiar with their products)
PS I understand the compulsion to make it perfect too... it's frustrating when it doesn't turn out that way and you think you have done it all right.
Re: My new Hornady seating die
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: texasleftychef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two more questions. What's the inside diameter of the neck after sizing? The Lee neck die is the collett die? (sorry I'm not too familiar with their products)
PS I understand the compulsion to make it perfect too... it's frustrating when it doesn't turn out that way and you think you have done it all right. </div></div>Using a Starrett small hole gauge and a Micrometer the I.D. of the neck measures .307 The Lee neck die is a collett type die.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: texasleftychef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two more questions. What's the inside diameter of the neck after sizing? The Lee neck die is the collett die? (sorry I'm not too familiar with their products)
PS I understand the compulsion to make it perfect too... it's frustrating when it doesn't turn out that way and you think you have done it all right. </div></div>Using a Starrett small hole gauge and a Micrometer the I.D. of the neck measures .307 The Lee neck die is a collett type die.
Re: My new Hornady seating die
How did you set up the die? It's not just starting to crimp and causing a problem?
How did you set up the die? It's not just starting to crimp and causing a problem?
Re: My new Hornady seating die
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crashnrondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did you set up the die? It's not just starting to crimp and causing a problem? </div></div> I am not using the crimping feature on the die. I followed Hornady's instructions to the letter on die set up, which calls for placing case on shell holder, bringing ram to top of the stroke and then screwing die down until it touches the case and then back off the die one turn if you are not going to crimp. Then the rest is adjusting the seating stem for C.O.A.L. Maybe tomorrow i will try it with a light crimp and see if that improves things.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crashnrondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did you set up the die? It's not just starting to crimp and causing a problem? </div></div> I am not using the crimping feature on the die. I followed Hornady's instructions to the letter on die set up, which calls for placing case on shell holder, bringing ram to top of the stroke and then screwing die down until it touches the case and then back off the die one turn if you are not going to crimp. Then the rest is adjusting the seating stem for C.O.A.L. Maybe tomorrow i will try it with a light crimp and see if that improves things.
Re: My new Hornady seating die
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crashnrondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did you set up the die? It's not just starting to crimp and causing a problem? </div></div> I am not using the crimping feature on the die. I followed Hornady's instructions to the letter on die set up, which calls for placing case on shell holder, bringing ram to top of the stroke and then screwing die down until it touches the case and then back off the die one turn if you are not going to crimp. Then the rest is adjusting the seating stem for C.O.A.L. Maybe tomorrow i will try it with a light crimp and see if that improves things. </div></div>
Sounds good, it was just a thought as I've seen others set them up wrong and get goofy results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crashnrondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did you set up the die? It's not just starting to crimp and causing a problem? </div></div> I am not using the crimping feature on the die. I followed Hornady's instructions to the letter on die set up, which calls for placing case on shell holder, bringing ram to top of the stroke and then screwing die down until it touches the case and then back off the die one turn if you are not going to crimp. Then the rest is adjusting the seating stem for C.O.A.L. Maybe tomorrow i will try it with a light crimp and see if that improves things. </div></div>
Sounds good, it was just a thought as I've seen others set them up wrong and get goofy results.
Re: My new Hornady seating die
"I had runout issues with my RCBS die using 168gr A-max bullets so i ordered a die from Hornady..."
Well, I don't know why you thought a seater from another maker would automatically reduce your runout but now you know better. Fact is, individual dies from the same makers generally vary as much as between makers. Hornady/RCBS seaters with their short, sloppy fitted sliding sleeves rarely do any better than conventional seaters. If as good.
"I had runout issues with my RCBS die using 168gr A-max bullets so i ordered a die from Hornady..."
Well, I don't know why you thought a seater from another maker would automatically reduce your runout but now you know better. Fact is, individual dies from the same makers generally vary as much as between makers. Hornady/RCBS seaters with their short, sloppy fitted sliding sleeves rarely do any better than conventional seaters. If as good.
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