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Nanny State Test: Company Locks Thermostats of 22K Customers, Cites 'Energy Emergency'

Even if your not an X files fan, the season 11 episode 7 is worth watching by itself. Kind of a stand alone episode sim to Black mirror. Technology gone wrong.

I think it’s free on Amazon prime.

Now get busy building Faraday cages for your thermostats.

 
This is how they get you. Oh yea that would be so great, we are all out of town the dog is at the kennel, I can turn down the house and save some money, then in the car back from the airport I can cool it off before I get there, great idea and (I SAVE MONEY).

That is the hook they use. It is the same hook they use for electric cars as well.

I have a guy at work who is a pretty strong lefty, he is seeing the light now, but still very "green" and all that stuff. We tease each other quite often. I hung a Trump sticker in with his patch collection, he donated to biden under my name (ass hole you know how much crap I get now)....but fun stuff like that, just playing.

He did solar on his house, he said he is getting an electric car as soon as this current availability issue gets fixed, told him he has a few more years to go till the next pres election, oh come on, yea your right the D's will never allow a free and fair election again.....see fun stuff.

But he put solar on his house and "sized it" to charge his new car as well as take care of his house. Sounds like a good plan, yea, wife works 10 miles from work and I have a patrol car, cool. You should have a zero electric bill now.....what no? You should if you "sized" your solar array for charging an electric car that does not exist yet then you should be making more electricity then you could use in your house, does evergy buy it back?

The look is priceless.

That all said, back when I raced cars you could always find my trailer and motorhome, it had a HUGE pole on it with a wind trubine on it. That would power the motorhome with everything but the AC. On my shop I have solar and that same turbine and it runs the LED lights, and a heater for my water in the shop.

There are places where it will help, but it is not the magic bullet everyone makes it out to be.
Most people don't work from home. As a result, much of their electricity usage is at night and on the weekends. If they go solar, their usage is still at night, when the sun isn't shining. If they don't have a battery array to store the electricity they are making when the sun is shining, they are still buying electricity from the power company at the power company rates. The power company may be buying power from the customer's solar grid, but at line $0.10 on the dollar.
 
It's OK to have "smart" devices in your home, you just need to put them on a VLAN that doesn't have access to the internet. If you need to access remotely, do so through a VPN.

Also, never use apps like tik tok that log your keystrokes and eavesdrop on you.
 
This is how they get you. Oh yea that would be so great, we are all out of town the dog is at the kennel, I can turn down the house and save some money, then in the car back from the airport I can cool it off before I get there, great idea and (I SAVE MONEY).

That is the hook they use. It is the same hook they use for electric cars as well.

I've acknowledged my error here...but nearly 3 years ago when I installed these, it wasn't really readily obvious that that point that these particular units were able to be controlled by a 3rd party (i.e. not me) at all, much like the Honeywells listed above.

Lesson learned...keep shit dumb, like me.
 
A local HVAC company was preying on the stupid, advertising their heat pump systems use electricity so there's no "burning of fossil fuels". I sent them an email telling them to stop lying to the public. Still waiting on their response.
 
Wait till the people who sell power back to the power company get all of their power taken during an emergency without being paid for it leaving them with nothing in their battery banks for them.

During a declared emergency power companies can legally take all of your stored power, if you sell them any power at all, and distribute it at their discretion.
 
So FYI from someone who's wife had to enjoy an 80 degree house while I was out of town because of this bullshit:
  • I installed these myself (they are like $300 each too) a few years ago because I wanted the convenience (yeah lesson learned) of remote control from my phone while I was traveling.
  • I didn't opt in to shit, confirmed by XCel and in my XCel account page where all these "services" were listed as off/opted out, the blamed Ecobee. I have never received any credit or refund.
  • Ecobee blames XCel and says only they can turn it off
  • I will be ripping these off the wall and replacing with analog dials
  • The so called "emergency" was nearly 3 hours from where I live.
  • Fuck XCel, fuck green energy, and fuck everyone who keeps enabling this kind of crap (including myself for installing these in the first place).


Just a stupid question. Why did you install them in the first place? Why did you need to adjust your home temp when you're not home?



Unless you have little to no insulation, the energy savings by turning your heat up or down go away when you have to spend more time running the AC or heat since now you either need to add or remove the heat from all of the materials in the house. Maintaining takes less energy than changing.

If you're leaving for a month it makes sense. If you're leaving for the day it ends up costing more.

Unless there's drastic rate changes depending on the hour of the day, then all bets are off.
 
Wait till the people who sell power back to the power company get all of their power taken during an emergency without being paid for it leaving them with nothing in their battery banks for them.

During a declared emergency power companies can legally take all of your stored power, if you sell them any power at all, and distribute it at their discretion.


Kinda but no. If the power goes out the inverters default to off so they don't backfeed the lines.

I know very few that actually run batteries, but plenty of solar. So long as the lines are up, they will backfeed off the panels. The meter will spin backwards all day and forward all night.

As soon as the lines go down they need a manual override to feed off the batteries or panels for safety. We have installed a few that have an interlock and the main at the meter must be shut off if it doesn't have good power before you can run on only battery. Some of the older ones were just a button press telling it that you were ok to keep running.

I can verify that power demand if the lines went down would also brown out the inverters and they'd go into safety shut down anyways. No way even a bunch of homes on the grid trying to backfeed would supply anything close to what the rest of the grid is trying to draw.


Of course, cheap Chinese crap off Amazon may try, but it will die in short order. Another reason to avoid anything that's not UL listed and decent quality.
 
Just say NO to "smart" devices for your home that are internet connected.
They WILL be used against you or used to spy on you.

I don't see how having some fancy internet connected thermostat would make your life any better than a standard programmable un-smart thermostat.
Well. Then. You're probably one of those guys that thinks having a video screen and a camera on your refrigerator door is a "bad" idea, right ? Hmmmm......:unsure::eek:
 
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I'm curious about the thermostats that are being remotely controlled....couldn't they be replaced with a non remote style unit or disconnected from the 'net?

I can't imagine myself being held hostage by my provider unless it was mandatory.

VooDoo
Most if not all activity signed up for this. A FREE smart thermostat. Some new builders include them now.

Yes they could just replace it. But that’s not gucci and cool looking.
 
Well. Then. You're probably one of those guys that thinks having a video screen and a camera on your refrigerator door is a "bad" idea, right ? Hmmmm......:unsure::eek:

It all depends, is the datastream and video stream from that going only to servers you control fully and only you have access to those servers and that service or is there any "middleman" or "app" that you use that someone else has access to?

If you host your own server for that at home and have it all setup to only run on your home server and nothing else, it could be good.
 
It all depends, is the datastream and video stream from that going only to servers you control fully and only you have access to those servers and that service or is there any "middleman" or "app" that you use that someone else has access to?

If you host your own server for that at home and have it all setup to only run on your home server and nothing else, it could be good.
I'm teasing, please know that.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how so many people fall for the Alexa, Smart Home bullshit. And, just how much people are being manipulated into "smart devices" by the vendors pandering to people's vanity. In the "old days", we simply opened the refrigerator door and looked inside. If we were low on something, we wrote a note and went to the grocery store.

In regard to the screen in the door; I'm NOT going to stand in front of a refrigerator and watch videos or a movie. Therefore, it's not only useless, but when it craps out, the whole refrigerator is nothing but a liability/waste of money. Or, even worse, if it's spying on you........:rolleyes:
 
Get a "smart thermostat" they said...
Connect it to a "smart grid" they said...
Get a "smart electric car" they said...
 
Just say NO to "smart" devices for your home that are internet connected.
They WILL be used against you or used to spy on you.

I don't see how having some fancy internet connected thermostat would make your life any better than a standard programmable un-smart thermostat.
Does this include Smart Power Meters using it's own feed lines for private intranet?
 
You talk about this, and I think part of it in fun and part of it for real. But it is really 100% real. (If you wanted to be 100% serious sorry I did not read you that way)

Years ago gasp 60 Minutes did a thing on taking control of your car with a computer. They had a guy sitting at a table and one of the reporters is driving a cone course in a parking lot, the guy at the computer made the steering quit working, the brakes stop, the radio come on, window wipers, squirt fluid on the windshield, up and down windows....all sitting in the parking lot.

I saw another video where a guy was in St. Louis in an office building, and he did the same thing to a car someone else was driving around St. Louis, they said he would do nothing to the car that would make it "unsafe" like mess with the basic controls of the car, but he turned the radio on all the way up, put the windows down and made them stay down, turn the heater on in the summer at full blast.

That video was actually on youtube for a bit, but quickly vanished. This is some flat scary shit, your mind can really race to see issues on this.

I am sure special agent X is reading my post (hi special agent, I don't know how to do any of this I promise) but can you imagine doing something like this to a car that some .gov types drive. I am sure they have that bypassed in those cars somehow.
I fail to see how this would work as far as steering and braking.

Maybe in the new shit boxes with lane assist and brake assist.

But think there bs for most trucks SUVs up through 2010ish
 
Did you ever wonder how all these folks seem to die in crazy car accidents where it seems like they just race off directly into destruction?

Any guess as to if maybe that recently deceased Hollywood actress that was planning on making a documentary about how Hollywood is top to bottom filled with pedophiles suddenly had her car accelerate to top speed and crash?
Are these new drive by wire bullshit?

Cause if I bump the trans into neutral no one is making my car go anywhere
 
Are these new drive by wire bullshit?

Cause if I bump the trans into neutral no one is making my car go anywhere

Assuming there is a physical cable between the shifter and the transmission yes.
More and more new ones are shift by wire.
 
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You talk about this, and I think part of it in fun and part of it for real. But it is really 100% real. (If you wanted to be 100% serious sorry I did not read you that way)

Years ago gasp 60 Minutes did a thing on taking control of your car with a computer. They had a guy sitting at a table and one of the reporters is driving a cone course in a parking lot, the guy at the computer made the steering quit working, the brakes stop, the radio come on, window wipers, squirt fluid on the windshield, up and down windows....all sitting in the parking lot.

I saw another video where a guy was in St. Louis in an office building, and he did the same thing to a car someone else was driving around St. Louis, they said he would do nothing to the car that would make it "unsafe" like mess with the basic controls of the car, but he turned the radio on all the way up, put the windows down and made them stay down, turn the heater on in the summer at full blast.

That video was actually on youtube for a bit, but quickly vanished. This is some flat scary shit, your mind can really race to see issues on this.

I am sure special agent X is reading my post (hi special agent, I don't know how to do any of this I promise) but can you imagine doing something like this to a car that some .gov types drive. I am sure they have that bypassed in those cars somehow.
Well there's the '61 panhead and the '72 GMC, I guess the pickup has some solid state in the radio.
I'm going to put a rebuilt long block in the '94 which has TBI, when I do that I figure the 4L60E and computer can go away in favor of a 700R4 I got out of a '91. I'll still go with electronic ignition but pre '86 heads, headers, aftermarket intake and carburetor, just have to regulate the fuel to about 4 psi.
I'd rather tune with a vacuum gauge than a laptop, in 2022 that makes me a Luddite.
 
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There are several inverters that will power a separate subpanel when the grid goes down. My DEYE (Sol-Ark) will isolate in 4ms.

Texas has 'fake' real-time price demand formula. This is why often the price has gone to $9/Kwh. This is what bankrupt several companies during that feb. ice storm.
My evil plan is to turn up my thermostat a couple degrees and change my inverter to battery primary for local consumption and push all the Solar to the grid when prices go over $1/Kwh and get rich.

I already built and designed my own smart thermostat prototype, but google opened up the API on thiers so I just punted and used that.
For my evil plan to work, I actually need the grid near capacity. :)
 
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+1 NoDopes. In addition to 15KW solar, we put in a automatic standby generator a couple of years ago, it has kicked in a couple of times and expect it will more frequently as more move into the DFW area.
 
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Well there's the '61 panhead and the '72 GMC, I guess the pickup has some solid state in the radio.
I'm going to put a rebuilt long block in the '94 which has TBI, when I do that I figure the 4L60E and computer can go away in favor of a 700R4 I got out of a '91. I'll still go with electronic ignition but pre '86 heads, headers, aftermarket intake and carburetor, just have to regulate the fuel to about 4 psi.
I'd rather tune with a vacuum gauge than a laptop, in 2022 that makes me a Luddite.

That 700r4 still has electronics to control lockup.

You need one setup for a 6.2 diesel to get away from electronics.


And yes, you're going backwards. Unless you go to points it's not gaining you anything. It is going to take more time out of your life tuning a carb every time you change elevation or the season changes.

My 88 has an lq4 and a Holley terminator x with a 4l65e. It just runs perfect always.
 
Does this include Smart Power Meters using it's own feed lines for private intranet?

"Smart Meters" are a whole different matter.
Many folks (including me) were against them hugely.

But the government gave permission for the power companies to swap them out with or without homeowner consent and with or without any actual permission to be on the property, so one day I came home and my analogue meter that was in a yard that had a 10ft fence around it was no longer my old analogue meter...

The answer from the courts is simply that by having signed up for electric service you have theoretically given consent for the power delivery companies to service their equipment as needed. And if you are extra butt hurt, you are welcome to pay the power company to disconnect your power for good and remove their equipment (at your expense).

So yes, pretty much everyone around here is stuck with one of those, so far they have never been used to ration power but you can't rule it out either.
 
Last fall I had a new furnace and heat pump/AC system installed. It has a smart thermostat as part of the system (Lennox) so it’s not controlled by the power company. I did connect it to Wi-Fi so it can get software updates, it will also send error data to the HVAC company if it has any problems. It is really nice to set multiple programs in great detail and it has a monitor for filter replacement. I don’t use the remote control aspects of the net.
 
"Smart Meters" are a whole different matter.
Many folks (including me) were against them hugely.

But the government gave permission for the power companies to swap them out with or without homeowner consent and with or without any actual permission to be on the property, so one day I came home and my analogue meter that was in a yard that had a 10ft fence around it was no longer my old analogue meter...

The answer from the courts is simply that by having signed up for electric service you have theoretically given consent for the power delivery companies to service their equipment as needed. And if you are extra butt hurt, you are welcome to pay the power company to disconnect your power for good and remove their equipment (at your expense).

So yes, pretty much everyone around here is stuck with one of those, so far they have never been used to ration power but you can't rule it out either.

Yeah I held them off as long as possible hoping the courts Would stop it but No! First they offered incentives, 2 years later they were sending me threats of court approved daily fines unless I consented. I think the 2 dogs kept them from sneaking in.

There was a huge thread on a local forum about how to build a Faraday cage around the meter. Problem is they use the wireless connection to read it. You’d have to only resort to the Faraday when you know an intensional black out is coming.
 
Last fall I had a new furnace and heat pump/AC system installed. It has a smart thermostat as part of the system (Lennox) so it’s not controlled by the power company. I did connect it to Wi-Fi so it can get software updates, it will also send error data to the HVAC company if it has any problems. It is really nice to set multiple programs in great detail and it has a monitor for filter replacement. I don’t use the remote control aspects of the net.
You connected it to the internet.
You say it can't be controlled by the guv/power co ?

Hah

Hahahaha

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHahaha!!!!!11

Better start looking for a new thermostat now, that's all I gotta say.
 
Most people don't work from home. As a result, much of their electricity usage is at night and on the weekends. If they go solar, their usage is still at night, when the sun isn't shining. If they don't have a battery array to store the electricity they are making when the sun is shining, they are still buying electricity from the power company at the power company rates. The power company may be buying power from the customer's solar grid, but at line $0.10 on the dollar.

Seems I read the power companies are lobbying congress so they do not have to purchase your excess. Also, increasd minimum charges if you're connected to the grid...already happening.

What would happen is the country as a whole magically reduced electricity consumption by half? Rates would double. I would expect the "because we can fees" to increase, as well. Here are a few examples:

Florida Gross Receipts Tax – A tax is imposed on gross receipts
from utility services that are delivered to retail customers in Florida, in
accordance with Chapter 203 of the Florida Statutes. Utility
companies collect the tax from all customers, unless exempt, and
remit to the state.
Florida State Tax – A tax imposed on every person who engages in
the business of selling or renting tangible personal property at retail in
the state, in accordance with Chapter 212 of the Florida Statutes.
Franchise Fee – A fee levied by a municipality for the right to utilize
public property to provide electric service. The fee is collected by
Tampa Electric and paid to the municipality.
Fuel Charge – Cost of fuel used to produce electricity you purchased.
Fuel costs are passed through from fuel suppliers to our customers
with no markup or profit to Tampa Electric.
Municipal Public Service Tax – Many municipalities levy a tax on
the electricity you use. It is collected by Tampa Electric and paid to
the municipality.
Rate Schedule – The amount (rate) you pay depends on your
customer category. The cost of providing service varies with the
customer group.
Share – A Tampa Electric program administered by the Salvation
Army and the Catholic Charities Diocese of St. Petersburg that
helps pay energy bills of customers in need. If you choose to
contribute, your contribution is tax deductible and is matched by
Tampa Electric.
Storm Protection Charge – The cost of additional hardening
efforts to further protect the power grid from hurricanes or other
extreme weather events.
Sun SelectSM – The cost of producing energy you purchased from
dedicated solar generation facilities. You pay no fuel charge for the
Sun Select portion of your bill.
Sun to GoSM – The amount of electricity purchased from solar
generating sources serving the Sun to Go program, which provides
optional renewable energy purchases in 200 kWh blocks.
 
Wonder if anyone knows how to bypass a meter on the pole while it's live...
It would seem the thermostat would be exponentially easier.

R
 
You connected it to the internet.
You say it can't be controlled by the guv/power co ?

Hah

Hahahaha

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHahaha!!!!!11

Better start looking for a new thermostat now, that's all I gotta say.

All I would need to do is disconnect it from Wi-Fi, assuming the power company is going to force Lennox to provide access to it in the first place.

By the way, you wouldn’t happen to be accessing the Hide through the Tor serves over at FBI HQ would you?
 
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Yeah I held them off as long as possible hoping the courts Would stop it but No! First they offered incentives, 2 years later they were sending me threats of court approved daily fines unless I consented. I think the 2 dogs kept them from sneaking in.

There was a huge thread on a local forum about how to build a Faraday cage around the meter. Problem is they use the wireless connection to read it. You’d have to only resort to the Faraday when you know an intensional black out is coming.

The power utilites can also use powerline internet, basically you can run your network through the power lines so they may have that option as well as wifi for easier central control.
 
All I would need to do is disconnect it from Wi-Fi, assuming the power company is going to force Lennox to provide access to it in the first place.

By the way, you wouldn’t happen to be accessing the Hide through the Tor serves over at FBI HQ would you?
It's obvious you have trouble understanding how this stuff works.
It has internet capability, period.
Just like the cellphone you have.
You can turn off the cellphone, yet it is still live, still connected to the internet, microphone and speaker are still active.
I guess you never noticed how you're talking to someone in person, not using that phone, suddenly you get advertisements for something you casually mentioned ?????
Just because you think you can does not mean you can actually disconnect it from the internet.
Might I suggest...

BTW, I can access (and frequently do) the "Hide" from just about every country on the planet.
I'm well aware how VPNs work, and also well aware of how to proxy thru just about any server in the world.
I could write up a howto about port sniffing and how to bounce even though the server is locked down to not allow it.
But why the hell would I give out the info that keeps me safe ?
 
BTW, I can access (and frequently do) the "Hide" from just about every country on the planet.
I'm well aware how VPNs work, and also well aware of how to proxy thru just about any server in the world.
I could write up a howto about port sniffing and how to bounce even though the server is locked down to not allow it.
But why the hell would I give out the info that keeps me safe ?

So no one else knows about this?
 
Just a stupid question. Why did you install them in the first place? Why did you need to adjust your home temp when you're not home?



Unless you have little to no insulation, the energy savings by turning your heat up or down go away when you have to spend more time running the AC or heat since now you either need to add or remove the heat from all of the materials in the house. Maintaining takes less energy than changing.

If you're leaving for a month it makes sense. If you're leaving for the day it ends up costing more.

Unless there's drastic rate changes depending on the hour of the day, then all bets are off.
  1. I've already freely admitted I'm dumb.
  2. I actually do travel away from the house for many weeks at a time. I have a house (and business) in TX and one in CO.
The TX house came with a Honeywell thermostat I can control through the existing ADT service the bitch that owned the house before me had set up... Probably need to shit can that one too come to think of it.
 
  1. I've already freely admitted I'm dumb.
  2. I actually do travel away from the house for many weeks at a time. I have a house (and business) in TX and one in CO.
The TX house came with a Honeywell thermostat I can control through the existing ADT service the bitch that owned the house before me had set up... Probably need to shit can that one too come to think of it.

You have one of the very few use cases it makes sense.

The good news is thermostats are easy. I'd leave the one in Texas. Your security company isn't going to fuck with you paying their bill.
 
So no one else knows about this?
I'm quite certain many people know how to do it.
I'm just not gonna give Johnny Fed the howto.
Dig ?
I'm also quite certain there are those in the guv that can do it....but it's damn near impossible to trace and they know it.
If they could trace it easily instructions would be everywhere.
 
Yall are really gonna get a sandy pussy when they cut your automobile off.
Hey , you know those smart fridges . Just wait till people have there bank card declined at the grocery store because the cameras in their smart refrigerator are showing they have plenty of food to eat and they must leave some for the less fortunate.
 
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A word of advice.
If you plan on changing your thermostat by yourself. TURN Off The Power to the system. There maybe more than one breaker/ fuse to turn off ALL the power.
The low voltage going to your stat will not hurt you. Shorting those wires together could hurt your wallet though. And you will be laughed at by the tech and his buddies.
 
Hey , you know those smart fridges . Just wait till people have there bank card declined at the grocery store because the cameras in their smart refrigerator are showing they have plenty of food to eat and they must leave some for the less fortunate.
Sad thing is this:
They don't think it can happen here. Most folks think it can't happen anywhere.
"Thats crazy talk!"

Edit to add:
But...they don't need a smart fridge.
Debit card
Loyalty special VIP store discount card

They have been sewing up the holes for a long time.
 
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A word of advice.
If you plan on changing your thermostat by yourself. TURN Off The Power to the system. There maybe more than one breaker/ fuse to turn off ALL the power.
The low voltage going to your stat will not hurt you. Shorting those wires together could hurt your wallet though. And you will be laughed at by the tech and his buddies.
The low voltage comes from a 120Vac to 24Vac transformer. Cheap and easy to replace, unless you call a “professional”.

The wife had the furnace serviced in one of our rentals last week. The tech said that the motor needed a new start capacitor. I asked him “how much” ? He said $300.00. I asked him to explain what the function of the start cap was. He uttered a bunch of jibberish and I let him go until he was out of breath. Then, I explained to him how they work/what they do. I also told him that if the cap was bad, the motor wouldn’t start.

I then told him that given that the motor had never failed to start and that I can buy a new cap on scamazon or fleabay for $12.00, he should pack up his shit, leave, and never come back.
 
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That 700r4 still has electronics to control lockup.

You need one setup for a 6.2 diesel to get away from electronics.


And yes, you're going backwards. Unless you go to points it's not gaining you anything. It is going to take more time out of your life tuning a carb every time you change elevation or the season changes.

My 88 has an lq4 and a Holley terminator x with a 4l65e. It just runs perfect always.
I'll look further into the transmission. Carbs and points don't bother me, been playing with them for almost fifty years.
 
I'll look further into the transmission. Carbs and points don't bother me, been playing with them for almost fifty years.

One thing with doing the diesel lockup vs electronic is all the gas engines had electric. The diesel will lock well below optimum rpm and make the gas engines feel very sluggish.

I only know because I bought one when I was in highschool because it was half the cost of a gas trans. That's the truck that now has the lq4 and 4l65e from my 03 Denali that developed electrical gremlins.
The sad thing is the 260k mile engine out of the 03 runs way better and doesn't burn any oil or leak. The crate motor (350) that came out only had 105k and was leaking and burning oil already. Went from 200hp to 350hp and has better fuel mileage and way more power.



Honestly I'm not too worried. The vehicle itself acts as a faraday cage if the ECU is mounted in the engine bay surrounded by sheet metal.
 
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