National Match M1A--what to do with it?

stiletto raggio

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I was given a National Match M1A by a (very generous) friend several years ago. It is the full kit and kaboodle: SA bipod, mount, rings and 4-14x56 scope on a bedded heavy barrel and wood stock. I had my gunsmith back home drill it for a Kydex saddle-type cheekpiece (I went years using a "chin weld") and now it is pretty much in final configuration. I know the system is dated, but I also know they still have a reputation for accuracy. I have mostly shot inexpensive Israeli "match" ammo but have never gotten impressive results. I recently purchased some 190 and 200 grain Sierra MatchKings to experiment with and hope that handloading will shrink the groups to MOA or better.

I will be deploying soon and am having a high-end 7WSM bolt gun built for me. I currently have a Steyr Tactical HB with a McMillan stock and a Leupold 4-16x50 and I doubt the M1A will ever shoot as well as it does. I am tempted to pull the optics off the M1A and put those nice NM sights to work (the objective of the SA scope blocks the iron sights) or maybe just get a more compact scope. I love the gun and don't intend to get rid of it, but it is way too long/heavy for a general-purpose "battle rifle" and it doesn't exactly compete as a precision gun. So what would you do?
 

Howie Feltersnatch

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Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

Well if you want to be "very generous" in return to your friend's generosity send it to me as a pass on. I've always wanted one!!

I don't know to tell you the truth. I'd hang on to it.

Thank you for your service to our country.
 

Prairie Dog Dundee

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Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

I have a NM and enjoy it very much. I've had good success with bullets from 150 grain to 175 grain. IMO what you have is more than a battle rifle and less than a precision rifle where accuracy is concerned. I can shoot mine MOA with the right loads but it is more difficult to shoot to that level of accuracy than a good bolt gun. While maybe not optimal it is a very good, spoter, SPR or DM rifle. Pull the scope you have and put a Super Sniper 3-9 FFP mil/mil scope on it. Spend some time getting to know the scope and rifle and I believe you will come to appreciate the combination. I have this combination and over the past four months have put just under 900 rounds through it shooting steel IPSC targets. While I intend to add a quality AR platform in 7.62 to my collection. I won't be parting with this rifle/scope combination.
 

Rovieairto

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Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

Put those NM irons back where they belong!
A good shooter can hold less than 2 moa with those sights.
That rifle has a lot to teach you if you will let it.
The 155, 168, and 175 bullet weights are what most folks are using to obtain accuracy with their civilian M14's.
I'd go with the 175 Sierra mactchking and some RL-15 to start.
You already have scoped rifles, and you can always revert it back if you later decide to.

Hell, shoot an NRA OTC match with it if you ever find the time.
You'll really see what can be done with irons.

Thanks for your service, and stay safe over there.
 

splean

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Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

I have an SA National Match in a Mc Millan M3A stock with a Luepold 3.5-10x. I've had it for a few years and it's never been a great shooter. Part of it was the scope mounts. I went from a Knights Armory rail to a Smith's Enterprises mount and rings. It has tightened up some as a result. I've fired FGMM and 155-175 handloads with varying results, but never stellar. The more I research the rifle the more I suspect it can be made into an accurate shooter but at substantial cost and effort. Still, I love my rifle and I'm still rooting for it (and me). I'm hoping a new approach to handloading will bare some good results.

Take care and thank you for your service.
 

bmt

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Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Thanks for your service, and stay safe over there.

</div></div>

Amen!

Stay safe and thank you.

BMT
 

SoundFx

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Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

Careful with bullets over 175 grains in that platform. From what I understand, they can beat up the M14 gas system (or maybe the op rod), and shorten the functional life of the gun. There are several threads on this topic over at the M14 forum.

Hope that helps!
 

Prairie Dog Dundee

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Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

The M1a is not as easy to shoot well as a bolt, nor are they as accurate as a good percission bolt gun. But can be far more accurate than the average battle rifle. The target in the photo was fired at 500 yards with the NM with Super Sniper 3-9 mentioned above. The aim point was simply quartering the target and firing rather quickly.
[img img]

This photo is of the target you can see in the background of the 1st photo.
[img img}

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
 

Victor-TNVC

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    If you have not seen it yet (sounds like you have the chin-welds under control...), but if you do not...We have released our new TNVC Riser Stock Pouch (RSP) for the M1A here. http://tnvc.com/items/weapon_accessories/tnvc_rsp.html I personally got tired of all the "chin-welds" with our boys out in the field. Left versions and other colors will be out in a few weeks.

    Vic
     

    Top Cat

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    The M1-A is capable of MOA accuracy, but not every rifle will do it. It requires some tuning by someone who knows the platform. The average decent rifle should shoot 2" or better with good ammo, so if your rifle does that with the ammo you are using it's in the ballpark.

    The Springfield aluminum mount and scope combo is a weak link for the system. The mount will shoot loose and and the Springfield scopes are know to have some issues as well.

    A Super Sniper is a better match to the rifle, but the mount is the most important component for running optics on these rifles. A Smith or Sadlak are rugged and work well, and are generally considered to be the best solution to optics issues.

    Israeli "match" ammo may not be up to the same standards that we expect. These rifles will often shoot their best with Federal GMM 168 or 175gr loads or their equivalent. Fed GMM is nicely matched with the M1-A. It is a moderate accuracy load. The military had to tone down their 118LR ammo in Iraq to prevent the rifles from breaking parts in the field. The newer 175 loads are appropriate for the M1-A. Hotter loads that are fine in a bolt rifle will tear up an M1-A.

    The gas system is tuned to Military ball ammo, so that means that commercial ammo (with the exception of Win white box), heavy bullet loads or any load with slow powder will be rough on the gas system, op rod, bolt, etc., because they produce high gas port pressure...it is a different concept than chamber pressure.

    So no bullets over 180 gr, and no powders slower than 4064, loaded to a midrange level will be appropriate for the rifle and shoot the best on target.

    TC

     

    NukeMMC

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    I could go on for days on the M14-based rifles and their accuracy. I shot them for several years competitively and as a DMR. I went Distinguished with the M14.

    First, as stated above, to have the M14/M1A shoot in the same league as a bolt rifle will take significantly more time, money and resources than most are willing to dedicate, so scratch that notion out right away. What you can do, with reasonable cost, is create a 3/4-1moa rifle for targets out to 800yds.
    Top Cat has good advice on the mounts. Find a Brookfield Precision/Sadlak mount and a more suitable optic and sell the SA scope and mount. Our Navy DMRs (early 90s here) had BPT mounts and pre-Mk4 M1A Ultra 10x scopes. I like the utility of the newer variables that don't lose their zero when you change magnification
    Seal that wood stock! Any moisture is going to wreak havoc with your bedding and the tension on the front band. Fine grit sand it, seal it and use a good Danish oil to finish it to keep the groups from going all over when the rain starts.

    On the rifle itself, I was never impressed by the work SA did on building "NM" rifles. How did they fix the front band to the gas cylinder? How much clearance between the handguard and the stock? Any op-rod contact with the stock? Is the op-rod guide solid on the barrel and non-moving? Is the flash hider reamed with a #7 spiral flute taper pin ream? If you have access to a smith who works M14s, ask him to group-test at 200yds and swap out your gas piston with ones with different diameters and watch the group sizes grow and shrink. A good trigger job will also do wonders for you. Check your magazines. Different mags will "stack" groups in different places for a given rifle. Get mags that shoot groups on top of each other at 200 or 300 yards.

    Also, as was stated above, stay away from the heavy bullets. Depending on what twist, your rifle should shoot just fine with 155-175gr bullets. Personally, with FGMM 168s at <$1 each, feed them that until you develop your own load. I would try 42gr of 4895 under a 168 in LC brass as a starting point though, but what do I know? The 168s will take you out to 800yds without issue.

    Regardless, you were indeed the recipient of a VERY generous gift.
     

    NukeMMC

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor-TNVC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have not seen it yet (sounds like you have the chin-welds under control...), but if you do not...We have released our new TNVC Riser Stock Pouch (RSP) for the M1A here. http://tnvc.com/items/weapon_accessories/tnvc_rsp.html I personally got tired of all the "chin-welds" with our boys out in the field. Left versions and other colors will be out in a few weeks.

    Vic </div></div>
    Nice piece of kit there!! I sure wish we had these on our DMRs! I like the dope sleeve on the left side also.
     

    Prairie Dog Dundee

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    Very good advice above regarding ammo and reloading. The American Eagle M1a 168 grain OTM load is pretty good and can be had for less money than the FGM. My most accurate loads have used the 168 gain Nosler HPBT match bullet and RL15. However I've had surprisingly good luck with the Hornady 150 FMJ and WC846. My WC846 is a hot lot and I use 43 grains rather than the 46 grains recommended. Military spec can be found on this link. http://web.archive.org/web/20000619233517/home.att.net/~Masterpo/762mil.htm
    Also take care to make sure your reloads gauge to spec and all primers are fully seated. High primers can cause slam fires in and M1a.
    Some good general info on the M1a can be found here. http://www.zediker.com/articles/articles.html#handloading
     

    samnev

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoundFx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Careful with bullets over 175 grains in that platform. From what I understand, they can beat up the M14 gas system (or maybe the op rod), and shorten the functional life of the gun. There are several threads on this topic over at the M14 forum.

    Hope that helps! </div></div>

    Same advive as above. My NM M1A will shoot 1 MOA @ 100 yards with 168 grain SMK's.
     

    kraigWY

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    I'm with Top-Cat on this one. I've shot the M14/M1A for over 30 years in compitition, I got my Dist Badge with one.

    If the guy who builds the Match M1A/M14, knows what he is doing, it will shoot and it will hold up. I got my M1A in 1977 and Gene Barnett (Barnett Barrels) turned it into a Super Match. He was an armor for the National Guard MTU at the time, plus made the barrels top shooters used.

    I also went to sniper school using he M21, and taught sniper schools using the M21, THEY SHOOT.

    I started out using M-118 until 1977 when I hung around the reloading room of the AMU and saw them making Mexican Match (pulling the 174s out of M118 and stuffing in 168 SMKs) I got the state to buy the bullets and started Mex Matching our ammo. Except we were using M14s in 1000 yard matchs where the 168s didnt work. We started using 180 SMKs, (the old 180s, closer to the 175 SMKs of today) They worked and they held up.

    A couple years ago the NRA American Rifleman did a piece on the M14s. They reported the M21s were holding up better then the Marine's M40s. The success of the Army's sniper program over the Marines in SE Asia, points that out, (though to be honest the tactics used by the Army vs. Marines had a lot to do with it.

    M1A%20_1_.jpg

    USAMU Sniper School - Benning School for Boys
    Sniper%20School.jpg


    As pointed out by Top Cat, impregnating the M14/M1A has more to do with the match rifle holding up then anything else. If done propertly they are imuned to moisture and I've shoot them in some pretty nasty weather, AS LONG AS THE STOCK IS BEDDED propertly. I mean totatly free floated, Just a bit of gease making contact with the forarm and gas system. My stock is over 30 years old and its still totally water proof.

    I dont shoot glass on my M1A anymore, but based on my experience with the ART-Leatherwood system, THEY WORKed.

    I'm old and retired now, though my M1A still shoots, I dont. I'm moved more into playing now, Vintage Military Rifle Matches and ARs, but it wasnt the gun that went south, its me.
     

    hrt4me

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    A month ago I sold my preban Springfield M1A NM (made in 1990) because I hadn't fired it since October 1992 (according to my log book), but now you guys are almost making me regret the sale...
     

    9H_Cracka

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    Hell, shoot an NRA OTC match with it if you ever find the time.
    You'll really see what can be done with irons.
    </div></div>

    we do have 1 or 2 in the area to shoot
    wink.gif


    http://web.me.com/ljahearn/Site/Main.html
     

    Moose

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    Damn good shooting at 500 with M1A.Im doing about the same at 400,wish i had a better place to shoot more distance.
     

    Prairie Dog Dundee

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sigster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damn good shooting at 500 with M1A.Im doing about the same at 400,wish i had a better place to shoot more distance. </div></div>

    That is one advantage of living in one of the big squarish states out west. The low hill behind the target of the lower picture is 1100 yards from where I put my shooting mat. If I move to the west 100 yards I can shoot out 2 miles to a hill.
    I haven't had to do it but I guess I could set up a mat on the western edge of the great salt lake on the Bonnivile salt flats and set up targets in Nevada. I now have enough targets to start at 200 yards and put one up every 100 yards to 1000. Great way to spend a day.
     

    stiletto raggio

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    I think I am going to pull the scope and make it an iron sight rifle. If I don't like it, I may throw a lower-powered scope on there.

    Do you think the scope is of good enough quality to mount on a serious .308 bolt gun? I've heard both good and bad reviews of teh SA scope. I guess I can just try it out and see what happens.
     

    pappy42

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    I sold my USAMU "All Army" M1A to a buddy a few years ago.

    While going through a divorce, he stored the rifle at his father's house. The house was flooded by a river and the rifle was submerged for several days.

    After being hosed off and lovingly cleaned, the old rifle shot as well as it always did. It too, has a epoxy impregnated in a vacumn stock.

    Hell of a way to treat an old warrior, but it came through.
     

    BCP

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiletto raggio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I am going to pull the scope and make it an iron sight rifle. If I don't like it, I may throw a lower-powered scope on there.

    Do you think the scope is of good enough quality to mount on a serious .308 bolt gun? I've heard both good and bad reviews of teh SA scope. I guess I can just try it out and see what happens. </div></div>

    I would get a good mount and put one of those 3-9 SSniper scopes on there like the guy several posts up did.
     

    Erud

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiletto raggio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I am going to pull the scope and make it an iron sight rifle. If I don't like it, I may throw a lower-powered scope on there.

    Do you think the scope is of good enough quality to mount on a serious .308 bolt gun? I've heard both good and bad reviews of teh SA scope. I guess I can just try it out and see what happens. </div></div>

    Good call on the M1A. In my opinion, putting a scope on a NM rifle is like gay marriage. Even though it may be legal now in some states, it's not how God intended it to be.

    The SA scopes don't seem to be very well regarded, though I have no experience with them. But, since you already have it, you might as well save yourself some cash and mount it up and run it until it fails - maybe it never will.

    Good luck,
    Erik

     

    kraigWY

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good call on the M1A. In my opinion, putting a scope on a NM rifle is like gay marriage. Even though it may be legal now in some states, it's not how God intended it to be.</div></div>

    Now that is a GREAT QUOTE if I ever heard one. Thanks for making my day.
     

    MK14 SEI

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Erud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my opinion, putting a scope on a NM rifle is like gay marriage.
    Even though it may be legal now in some states, it's not how God intended it to be.

    </div></div>

    I don't know anything about gay marriage, but when it comes to putting a scope on a NM M14... it appears that God's opinion has changed.

    IMGP0315.jpg


    IMGP0325.jpg


    IMGP0321.jpg



    The rifle pictured above performed very well at Camp Perry... TACOM-RI, SEI and SAGE are collaborating to bring
    the modernized National Match M14 to the civilian market. It should be competing at High Power matches soon.

    No scope?, no problem... use your proven national match iron sights.
     

    madcratebuilder

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was given a National Match M1A by a (very generous) friend several years ago. It is the full kit and kaboodle: SA bipod, mount, rings and 4-14x56 scope on a bedded heavy barrel and wood stock.</div></div>

    The SA scope are problematic at best, complaints on tracking, repeatability and just plain old failure. They do command a princely price on evil bay. I would sell it and buy a SWFA 3-9. You may even have some cash left over.

    If you want to play with the heavier bullets you can use a grooved piston from Sadlak. I picked one up but haven't used it yet, it does get good reviews by folks using it.

    I couldn't make up my mind on scope or irons so I have two of them.
     

    Erud

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Erud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my opinion, putting a scope on a NM rifle is like gay marriage.
    Even though it may be legal now in some states, it's not how God intended it to be.

    </div></div>

    I don't know anything about gay marriage, but when it comes to putting a scope on a NM M14... it appears that God's opinion has changed.

    IMGP0315.jpg


    IMGP0325.jpg


    IMGP0321.jpg



    The rifle pictured above performed very well at Camp Perry... TACOM-RI, SEI and SAGE are collaborating to bring
    the modernized National Match M14 to the civilian market. It should be competing at High Power matches soon. </div></div>

    I don't know if I'd say anyone's opinion has changed - people have been putting scopes on them for years. Sure you can take a perfectly good open-sighted battle rifle and turn it into a marginal precision rifle, but why? It now has the same basic ergonomics of a scoped AR-10 so why not just get a LR308 for half the cost?

    What kind of HP matches will you be competing in with this thing? All the one's I've shot did not allow scopes. I guess you could shoot F-TR with it, but you'd be giving up a lot to any bolt or AR-based rifle. Also curious what matches it shot at Camp Perry - do they have some kind of Tactical Match out there now?

    Just my opinions - worth exactly what you paid for them.
    wink.gif


    Thanks,
    Erik
     

    BattleAxe

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    Hmmmm...what to do with a M1A?

    What to do?

    What to do?

    I'm stumped
    cool.gif


    256-img-0015.jpg
     

    MK14 SEI

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmm...what to do with a M1A?

    What to do?

    What to do?

    I'm stumped
    cool.gif


    256-img-0015.jpg
    </div></div>

    Very nice!
     

    Xcount

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    Go ahead and disregard over 100 years of competition at Camp Perry with iron sights. Just because the NRA recently changed rules just to attract newbies doesn't mean that's how God intended matches to be held.


    sinking more money into a M1a is just turning good money into bad. you might as well buy a boat.
     

    BattleAxe

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xcount</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sinking more money into a M1a is just turning good money into bad. you might as well buy a boat. </div></div>
    After you own a boat for 10 or so years and the glitter is gone, you almost can't give it away but a M1A will still be a M1A.
     

    Bugs Bunny

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Melick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A month ago I sold my preban Springfield M1A NM (made in 1990) because I hadn't fired it since October 1992 (according to my log book), but now you guys are almost making me regret the sale...
    </div></div>

    You arent missing anything
    wink.gif
     

    Downrange1x

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    SHOOT THE SHIT OUTTA IT!!!! That's what they are made for!!!I have a super match M1A I'll put up against most bolt systems.
     

    MK14 SEI

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downrange1x</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about some info on stock system from H2OMAN? </div></div>

    This post on The M14HDW Forum covers the stock system in detail.

    AR15.com covers it in this post.
     

    Erud

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    IMGP0315.jpg


    IMGP0325.jpg


    IMGP0321.jpg



    The rifle pictured above performed very well at Camp Perry... TACOM-RI, SEI and SAGE are collaborating to bring
    the modernized National Match M14 to the civilian market. It should be competing at High Power matches soon. </div></div>

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Erud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    What kind of HP matches will you be competing in with this thing? All the one's I've shot did not allow scopes. I guess you could shoot F-TR with it, but you'd be giving up a lot to any bolt or AR-based rifle. Also curious what matches it shot at Camp Perry - do they have some kind of Tactical Match out there now?
    </div></div>

    Still curious about these questions....
     

    MK14 SEI

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Erud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    1. What kind of HP matches will you be competing in with this thing? All the one's I've shot did not allow scopes.

    2. I guess you could shoot F-TR with it, but you'd be giving up a lot to any bolt or AR-based rifle.

    3. Also curious what matches it shot at Camp Perry - do they have some kind of Tactical Match out there now?

    </div></div>

    1. I don't know, the dust has not settled yet.

    2. What would you give up to a .308 AR based rifle?

    3. It was the shoot that occurred a bout 2 weeks ago.
    I have read that the rifle was shot by a retired national guard Brigadier General. He scored 184 out of 200.

     

    BattleAxe

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    I'm still amazed at how many underestimate the accuracy potential of these weapons. Sure its expensive but the price is exactly in line with anything else with limited demand.

    The irony here is that I'd be willing to wager there are some that will justify putting a set of $3000 wheels or other worthless bling on a $1000 car, then scoff at the notion of modifying a M1A. We should embrace the fact that the aftermarket has finally found a way to modernize what can only be described as an amazing platform.

    I'd easily own 3 of them in different configurations if I could pull it off.
     

    Erud

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Erud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    1. What kind of HP matches will you be competing in with this thing? All the one's I've shot did not allow scopes.

    2. I guess you could shoot F-TR with it, but you'd be giving up a lot to any bolt or AR-based rifle.

    3. Also curious what matches it shot at Camp Perry - do they have some kind of Tactical Match out there now?

    </div></div>

    1. I don't know, the dust has not settled yet.

    2. What would you give up to a .308 AR based rifle?

    3. It was the shoot that occurred a bout 2 weeks ago.
    I have read that the rifle was shot by a retired national guard Brigadier General. He scored 184 out of 200.

    </div></div>

    1. Ok.

    2. Inherent accuracy. I have seen quite a few(and have owned 3 myself - 2 of which cost less than $1100 each) AR-based .308's that will shoot sub-MOA. My 16" barreled box stock AP4 upper shoots just over MOA. I have also owned lots of regular .223 AR's that will shoot well below MOA. I have not seen too many (any?) M1A's shoot sub-MOA without lots of expensive work. There are probably some out there, but I haven't seen them. Not many would argue that an M1A is as inherently accurate as an AR. That's one of the main reasons (ergonomics, cost and recoil being the others) why you see about 50 AR's for every M1A at HP matches.

    3. 2 weeks ago the NRA national matches were going on, which encompass a bunch different matches. Not sure which match he would have shot in, but a 184 out of 200 is not exactly setting the world on fire. 92% shooting - that would put him in the "Expert" class for that string - expert is the middle of the 5 classifications in NRA Highpower. Decent shooting. The top shooters are shooting clean 200's with high X-counts in all of the matches - but with sights. And not with M1A's. There's a reason for that. Sherri Gallagher shot a 2396-161x out of 2400 possible for the week - but she is a complete freak of nature.

    Again, just my opinions.

    Erik
     

    9H_Cracka

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xcount</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go ahead and disregard over 100 years of competition at Camp Perry with iron sights. Just because the NRA recently changed rules just to attract newbies doesn't mean that's how God intended matches to be held.


    sinking more money into a M1a is just turning good money into bad. you might as well buy a boat. </div></div>

    I've read the 2010 rulebook word for word and I don't interpret it that way at all. You can't even get an NRA XC classification shooting with glass. Additionally, the CMP has no provisions for glass in its rules.

    If you asked the same question with every other gun in the collection, what list of answers would you have? And, what action would you take based on those answers?

    Sometimes having a specific whatever in the stash for you to pick up, finger, and take to the range upon occasion because YOU WANT TO and because YOU CAN is justification enough.
     

    KMCM110

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    IMGP0315.jpg


    IMGP0325.jpg


    IMGP0321.jpg



    </div></div>

    I like that dressing on the Rifle.
     

    johndoe

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Prairie Dog Dundee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The M1a is not as easy to shoot well as a bolt, nor are they as accurate as a good percission bolt gun. But can be far more accurate than the average battle rifle. The target in the photo was fired at 500 yards with the NM with Super Sniper 3-9 mentioned above. The aim point was simply quartering the target and firing rather quickly.
    [img img]

    This photo is of the target you can see in the background of the 1st photo.
    [img<a href="http://img375.imageshack" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">[url]http://img375.imageshack[/url].[/url]




    us/img375/6012/m1a5at400.jpg</a>img}
    great shooting!

    Uploaded with [url="http://imageshack.us"]ImageShack.us

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us </div></div>
     

    Anchor Zero Six

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    Wow what a thread!

    There are so many different paths you could go with this thing, just depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend.

    I have a big fondness of the platform however each time I think I want to get a built up 14 I talk myself out of it. IMO there is no disputing the potential accuracy but at what cost? My latest exploration into gas driven 308's lead me to the LMT. In hindsight I have no regrets as its capable of out the box .5" for 2500.00 to expect the same from the 14 is wishfull thinking IMO.

    Considering you already have one that lessens the initial cost considerable and if it were me I would either set it up for NM and give that a try or send it to SEI and have an 18" barrel installed along with a USGI fiberglass stock add a GDI mount and a SPR type optic or ACOG or Dot sight and call it done.

    Keep it simple!
     

    brt1963

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    Re: National Match M1A--what to do with it?

    Add a Sadlak Airborne mount, attach SWFA SS 3x9 and some form of cheekriser. Add an extended bolt and mag release if you want. Invest in reloading dies or buy a bunch of FGMM (although mine seems to like the Hornady Match a bit better).

    Shoot, have fun, repeat.

    My 20 year old SuperMatch is sub-MOA with match ammo, on occasions is 3/4 MOA.

    IMGP2318.jpg