I'm shopping for an upgrade to a competition Redding or Forster die set. Shooting an AR style (LWRC REPR). Any reason to choose "National Match" vs standard 308 win dies? Price is the same.
National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
- Thread starter targaflorio
- Start date
Re: National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
Targa,
I just bought the Forster National Match set. I chose the Forster because a few hide members claimed the Redding Dies have had issues lately. I dunno if it is true or not. The only advantage to the National Match is that it offers the Micro-adjustable bullet seating depth. You will not have much room to play with if you want to load the cartridges into the magazine of an AR /SR 25 variant so you will neet a Bullet seater with microadjustments if you want to seat the bullet closer to the lands.
my .02 cents.
Targa,
I just bought the Forster National Match set. I chose the Forster because a few hide members claimed the Redding Dies have had issues lately. I dunno if it is true or not. The only advantage to the National Match is that it offers the Micro-adjustable bullet seating depth. You will not have much room to play with if you want to load the cartridges into the magazine of an AR /SR 25 variant so you will neet a Bullet seater with microadjustments if you want to seat the bullet closer to the lands.
my .02 cents.
Re: National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
I have heard the Forster and Redding are pretty close and the Forster is less expensive. From what I can tell, the Ultra version of their seating die includes the micrometer. Both 308 and National Match are available as Ultras, with the micrometer. I've seen small base dies some people use for semi-autos, but "National Match" does something special for gas guns. Just not sure what...
I have heard the Forster and Redding are pretty close and the Forster is less expensive. From what I can tell, the Ultra version of their seating die includes the micrometer. Both 308 and National Match are available as Ultras, with the micrometer. I've seen small base dies some people use for semi-autos, but "National Match" does something special for gas guns. Just not sure what...
Re: National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
I know the N Match dies will size a little more than a standard die, not sure if it's the same amount as a small base die. I have heard the Forster size die has the expander ball is higher up in the die than most all other dies, the case is better supported when pulling the case from the die.
I know the N Match dies will size a little more than a standard die, not sure if it's the same amount as a small base die. I have heard the Forster size die has the expander ball is higher up in the die than most all other dies, the case is better supported when pulling the case from the die.
Re: National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
Forster NM micrometer seating die.
Redding Type S (or Forster bushing sizer) FL.
Need a Wilson case gauge or RCBS Precision Mic also to set your sizer. Need about .004" under gas gun chamber dimension to be sure of full bolt lock-up. If sized close to fired/expanded dimension, bolt may not seat fully and rifle won't fire...
Full length size always for any semi-auto. Probably won't need a SB set.
Remember no slow powder in an AR or M14. IMR 4064 (or Varget, RL15) at 42.5 w/168gr bthp match bullet load to 2.825 or what your magazines measure. Hornady, Nosler, Sierra all are very good bullets. Try the Sierra accuracy load suggestion.
Forster NM micrometer seating die.
Redding Type S (or Forster bushing sizer) FL.
Need a Wilson case gauge or RCBS Precision Mic also to set your sizer. Need about .004" under gas gun chamber dimension to be sure of full bolt lock-up. If sized close to fired/expanded dimension, bolt may not seat fully and rifle won't fire...
Full length size always for any semi-auto. Probably won't need a SB set.
Remember no slow powder in an AR or M14. IMR 4064 (or Varget, RL15) at 42.5 w/168gr bthp match bullet load to 2.825 or what your magazines measure. Hornady, Nosler, Sierra all are very good bullets. Try the Sierra accuracy load suggestion.
Re: National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bignada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forster NM micrometer seating die.
Redding Type S (or Forster bushing sizer) FL.
Need a Wilson case gauge or RCBS Precision Mic also to set your sizer. Need about .004" under gas gun chamber dimension to be sure of full bolt lock-up. If sized close to fired/expanded dimension, bolt may not seat fully and rifle won't fire...
Full length size always for any semi-auto. Probably won't need a SB set.
Remember no slow powder in an AR or M14. IMR 4064 (or Varget, RL15) at 42.5 w/168gr bthp match bullet load to 2.825 or what your magazines measure. Hornady, Nosler, Sierra all are very good bullets. Try the Sierra accuracy load suggestion.
</div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bignada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forster NM micrometer seating die.
Redding Type S (or Forster bushing sizer) FL.
Need a Wilson case gauge or RCBS Precision Mic also to set your sizer. Need about .004" under gas gun chamber dimension to be sure of full bolt lock-up. If sized close to fired/expanded dimension, bolt may not seat fully and rifle won't fire...
Full length size always for any semi-auto. Probably won't need a SB set.
Remember no slow powder in an AR or M14. IMR 4064 (or Varget, RL15) at 42.5 w/168gr bthp match bullet load to 2.825 or what your magazines measure. Hornady, Nosler, Sierra all are very good bullets. Try the Sierra accuracy load suggestion.
</div></div>
+1
Re: National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
The Forster NM die simply has .003" off the bottom of it so that brass fired in a CORRECTLY match chambered gas gun can be sized down to minimum dimension.
Any die can have this mod done to it by a competent machinist with a lathe, gunsmith or otherwise, in about 5 minutes.
Nice option to have it available from Forster directly though.
I sincerely doubt your REPR has a match dimension chamber in it cut at between 0 and .002" of minimum.
The Forster NM die simply has .003" off the bottom of it so that brass fired in a CORRECTLY match chambered gas gun can be sized down to minimum dimension.
Any die can have this mod done to it by a competent machinist with a lathe, gunsmith or otherwise, in about 5 minutes.
Nice option to have it available from Forster directly though.
I sincerely doubt your REPR has a match dimension chamber in it cut at between 0 and .002" of minimum.
Re: National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bignada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forster NM micrometer seating die.
Redding Type S (or Forster bushing sizer) FL.
Need a Wilson case gauge or RCBS Precision Mic also to set your sizer. Need about .004" under gas gun chamber dimension to be sure of full bolt lock-up. If sized close to fired/expanded dimension, bolt may not seat fully and rifle won't fire...
Full length size always for any semi-auto. Probably won't need a SB set.
Remember no slow powder in an AR or M14. IMR 4064 (or Varget, RL15) at 42.5 w/168gr bthp match bullet load to 2.825 or what your magazines measure. Hornady, Nosler, Sierra all are very good bullets. Try the Sierra accuracy load suggestion.</div></div>
Good info, thanks!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bignada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forster NM micrometer seating die.
Redding Type S (or Forster bushing sizer) FL.
Need a Wilson case gauge or RCBS Precision Mic also to set your sizer. Need about .004" under gas gun chamber dimension to be sure of full bolt lock-up. If sized close to fired/expanded dimension, bolt may not seat fully and rifle won't fire...
Full length size always for any semi-auto. Probably won't need a SB set.
Remember no slow powder in an AR or M14. IMR 4064 (or Varget, RL15) at 42.5 w/168gr bthp match bullet load to 2.825 or what your magazines measure. Hornady, Nosler, Sierra all are very good bullets. Try the Sierra accuracy load suggestion.</div></div>
Good info, thanks!
Re: National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
The difference between the head diameter of standard and "small base" dies is about 2 thou. A National Match die is perhaps 3 thou shorter than normal. ?? Few rifles will need or notice that.
I'm puzzled at the logic of getting a tight chamber in a match rifle and then buying a small base or "NM" die that carefully 'restores' the sloppy fit. ??
The difference between the head diameter of standard and "small base" dies is about 2 thou. A National Match die is perhaps 3 thou shorter than normal. ?? Few rifles will need or notice that.
I'm puzzled at the logic of getting a tight chamber in a match rifle and then buying a small base or "NM" die that carefully 'restores' the sloppy fit. ??
Re: National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
Forster responded to me suggesting the standard 308 dies. Now... bushing or no bushing...
Forster responded to me suggesting the standard 308 dies. Now... bushing or no bushing...
Re: National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
I like the bushings because you work the neck less.. The bushing simply sizes the neck down, instead of sizing it super small and then dragging it across an expanding plug to get it to the right diameter.
I like the bushings because you work the neck less.. The bushing simply sizes the neck down, instead of sizing it super small and then dragging it across an expanding plug to get it to the right diameter.
Re: National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The difference between the head diameter of standard and "small base" dies is about 2 thou. A National Match die is perhaps 3 thou shorter than normal. ?? Few rifles will need or notice that.
I'm puzzled at the logic of getting a tight chamber in a match rifle and then buying a small base or "NM" die that carefully 'restores' the sloppy fit. ?? </div></div>
You have a misunderstanding of chambers, small base dies, and NM dies from Forster.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The difference between the head diameter of standard and "small base" dies is about 2 thou. A National Match die is perhaps 3 thou shorter than normal. ?? Few rifles will need or notice that.
I'm puzzled at the logic of getting a tight chamber in a match rifle and then buying a small base or "NM" die that carefully 'restores' the sloppy fit. ?? </div></div>
You have a misunderstanding of chambers, small base dies, and NM dies from Forster.
Re: National Match or 308 win dies for a gas gun?
<span style="font-style: italic">"You have a misunderstanding of chambers, small base dies, and NM dies from Forster."</span>
Thank you for your very insightful and helpful post.
<span style="font-style: italic">"You have a misunderstanding of chambers, small base dies, and NM dies from Forster."</span>
Thank you for your very insightful and helpful post.
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