Neck or fl die, beginner question

[dontbelievethisnonsense]

I’m planning to start reloading 6,5x55 as I have about 500 norma and 200 lapua cases saved. I read what I found here and there was notion of determining the head space of my rifle and only pushing back 0.003” instead of full resize. What I couldn’t figure out was: do I do this with normal full die or neck resize die?

If I just determine the position by sooting one case, determining there it touches and screwing the die 0.003” down and lock the adjustment there and never touch it, is there any benefit from buying specific tool to measure headspace from shoulder?

Also if you mind on giving input, should I go with scenar or smk or something else? Is 0.7 L ultrasound washer too small? Some recommend dishwasher detergent. Others specific brass cleaner. How long should I keep the cases in washer?

 

[padom]

Simple answer for a beginner. FL resize. Get a Forster FL sizing die and a Hornady Case comparator. Measure your once fired brass with calipers and the case comparator. Write that number down. Now subtract .003" and insert your FL sizing die in your press. Screw it down till it touches the shelf holder than back off 1/4 turn.

Now lube 5 cases with Imperial Sizing Wax. Size one case and measure it with the case comparator. Does it equal your once fired case - .003"?? If not adjust your die down a 1/4 turn and size again. Rinse and repeat this process making sure you have your case lube until your sized case measures your once fired brass number minus .003. Now lock your die in place and your done. Size all your brass.

Side note, I push the shoulder back on my semi auto AR's .003 and my bolt guns .001...

Hope this clears things up

 

[patriot07]

I went back and forth a hundred times on die types when learning on my 223 and 6.5 CM. Ended up funding that padom is right - for beginners, use a FL sizer die and bump the shoulder .002-.003" and call it a day. Once you've found a good load, then would be a good time to start experimenting with other die types if you want to go that route.

 

[Dai Bando]

Don't forget to punch the primer out before measuring.

 

[mdmp5]

F/L only and don't bother thinking about a neck die again

 

[RNWRKNP]

So you bump the shoulder back .001 to better retain the shape of the chamber for length specific to your rifle. With neck sizing your simply resizing the neck and leaving the entire cartridge the same shape as your chamber. Why is bumping the shoulder better than neck sizing? Is the length more important to accuracy than the width? Obviously after a couple of firings the shoulder would have to be bumped back. My only conclusion based on the experience here is that length is more important to accuracy than width. Following along but still not solid on this myself.

 

[918v]

Because if you only neck size you create a zero clearance situation between the case head, the breech face, the bolt lugs and the bolt lug recess. You end up grinding all these surfaces when you manipulate the bolt which becomes increasingly harder to close with each reload cycle.

 

[mdmp5]

So you bump the shoulder back .001 to better retain the shape of the chamber for length specific to your rifle. With neck sizing your simply resizing the neck and leaving the entire cartridge the same shape as your chamber. Why is bumping the shoulder better than neck sizing? Is the length more important to accuracy than the width? Obviously after a couple of firings the shoulder would have to be bumped back. My only conclusion based on the experience here is that length is more important to accuracy than width. Following along but still not solid on this myself.

It’s not only the shoulder setback, but the sizing of the body. The body is the culprit in a round that will barely chamber and at times, won’t eject. I ripped a bolt handle off my Sako Trg after rebarreling, and simply trying to eject a piece of brass that had been fire formed in the factory barrel. When I took the measurements, the brass was a few thou wider at the bottom of the body

 

[RNWRKNP]

It’s not only the shoulder setback, but the sizing of the body. The body is the culprit in a round that will barely chamber and at times, won’t eject. I ripped a bolt handle off my Sako Trg after rebarreling, and simply trying to eject a piece of brass that had been fire formed in the factory barrel. When I took the measurements, the brass was a few thou wider at the bottom of the body

So it’s a functionality thing not accuracy which makes more sense to me. I always full sized after the 2nd round of neck sizing and never ran into an issue but I can def see what you mean. Didn’t mind saving the $50 on the 2 match set vs 3 set of S dies for my 6.5x284 coming down the pipe from the smith.......Sako no less. Appreciate the input amigo.

 

[mdmp5]

So it’s a functionality thing not accuracy which makes more sense to me. I always full sized after the 2nd round of neck sizing and never ran into an issue but I can def see what you mean. Didn’t mind saving the $50 on the 2 match set vs 3 set of S dies for my 6.5x284 coming down the pipe from the smith.......Sako no less. Appreciate the input amigo.

There have been studies and I’ve seen mixed results. I did my own experiment 10 years ago and found no accuracy advantage in neck sizing over F/L. It’s about non inferiority for me with enhanced functionality. My technique actually involves neck sizing first to step down the neck diameter with the expander ball, then f/l sizing with the desired neck tension. A study comparing the sequence of neck and full length sizing was done, and it showed better ES and accuracy with neck before f/l, which I why do it in that sequence

 

[RNWRKNP]

There have been studies and I’ve seen mixed results. I did my own experiment 10 years ago and found no accuracy advantage in neck sizing over F/L. It’s about non inferiority for me with enhanced functionality. My technique actually involves neck sizing first to step down the neck diameter with the expander ball, then f/l sizing with the desired neck tension. A study comparing the sequence of neck and full length sizing was done, and it showed better ES and accuracy with neck before f/l, which I why do it in that sequence

That is interesting. Does that require more annealing because the brass is being worked twice? Another thing I need to learn how to do....switching over to Lapua and their kinda proud of their stuff. Although not that much more than Nosler and better quality if I understand correctly.

 

[918v]

The brass is not being worked twice. I think he meant to say neck sized without the expander ball.

 

[flyright]

FL sizing doesn't affect accuracy significantly. Bumping the shoulder.001 - .004 doesn't affect accuracy significantly - at least not .25 moa accuracy in my experience. The negative issues with neck sizing only or min shoulder bumping for both bolt actions and esp. SA's far outweigh accuracy gains.

I have many benchrest friends that somewhat agree, but will risk unchamberable loads in custom cut chambers to milk the last .1 for the win. I think most of us here are looking for reliability along with accuracy for the majority of our shooting. We should be able to find a half moa load that feeds every time or we are not going to be happy.

 

[mdmp5]

The brass is not being worked twice. I think he meant to say neck sized without the expander ball.

No, neck sized with the expander ball, but just a step down. The ball is in there to round out any dents and half moons. For example, I’ll use a 292 for the neck step, and then a 290 for the F/L step. So it’s just taking the neck down in 2 steps instead of 1. Same amount of work, but less at a time. It’s likely overkill, but I only really do it to avoid full sizing a mouth that’s dented and then using the bullet OD to fix the dent.

 

[mdmp5]

That is interesting. Does that require more annealing because the brass is being worked twice? Another thing I need to learn how to do....switching over to Lapua and their kinda proud of their stuff. Although not that much more than Nosler and better quality if I understand correctly.

I’ve always had good QC with the Lapua brass I’ve bought over the years in 4 different calibers. Nosler brass is ok; I got a box for 300 win mag years ago. It’s simply Norma brass that has been sorted. Norma brass is comparable to Lapua, depending on the caliber, but still not as good. You can see the differences in the primer pocket depths and flash holes. Not complaining, just takes an extra one time step for uniformity. I’ve seen a couple guys ripping on lapua, and that’s fine because it’s their experience, but I’ve not had that experience myself

 

[dontbelievethisnonsense]

Great advice, thanks everyone. Re-read some of the sticky posts and I'm starting to have a pretty good idea of the process. Now I just need to decide what components I start with first.