Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

[dbshabo]

Newbie to reloading here. Put together a reloading bench and got what I thought was necessary to begin reloading 6.5mm Creedmoor ammo for a bolt gun. I bought a set of Hornady dies, guess I bought Hornady because they are the only source for factory loaded ammo. After reading the tacked instructional posts at the begining of this forum I've come to the conclusion that I should get a neck sizing die for this round.

I bought 6 boxes of factory loaded ammo so I could shoot the new rifle and for a supply of brass. This brass still chambers easily in my rifle after one firing. I read the two posts by doc76251 and learned a lot. He basically said the brass needs to be fired without full length resizing, neck sizing only, until it will no longer chamber in the rifle. That makes sense to me in order to determine what the max headspace measurement is before you bump the shouler back. Can this be accomplished in a full length die? It seems to me that a neck die that doesn't change anything but the neck size is the way to go. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. Since I'll be using new brass eventually I'll have to go thru this process again won't I?

I saw a video on YouTube today where a guy compared a Hornady neck die with a Lee collet neck die. He used a concentricy guage to measure the necks after going thru the dies. The Lee die produced much better results. I've read a lot of good things about Redding dies and everything else Redding for that matter. I've looked at the Redding bushing dies and they are pricey. I don't mind paying the extra $$ if it is worth it. Lee will make a custom die, they don't make dies for the 6.5CM as of yet, for $60 + s/h. That will put the cost of the two at about the same level.

Sorry for the long post here. My main point here was to ask you out there your opinion of my assumption, the merits of the Redding and Lee dies, and suggestions on other brand dies that will do a good job. Thanks in advance for any advice offered.

Shabo

 

[former naval person]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

Use the Lee die for the neck...follow that with a body die if you need to bump the shoulder. Gives the least runout in my hands.

 

[RotARy15]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

Lee craftsmanship is meh. To the point that I have had to polish every Lee Collet die I've ever used simply to get it to the quality that I believe it should be. I've often heard that the Lee gives the best results and I've heard otherwise. Very rarely I have heard that a Lee die was pathetic to the point that the bullet jammed into the rifling on one side preventing the bolt from closing.

I use a Lee Collet but I don't have the tools to check runout. Most people only know what they have. I fall in this category on this matter. Few people go out and buy every die available for 1 task.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

I've owned plenty of die brands, but Lee has been very hard to beat...at least for me. I have Lee collet NS dies for all my sets. You're going to hear comments about neck tension from the BR folks. Collets and bushings, they each have their + and -. I don't want to buy a ton of bushings so it's a no-brainer for me...LEE. I do believe collets are better with presses that do not have camover AND bushings are better with presses that do have camover. Every manufacturer is producing great stuff. I think it's important for people to know their equipment and perfrom consistent reloading practices.

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

I have a number of die sets for a couple of my calibers, I guess I like being thorough. Also, I tend not to discard tools. Hornady dies are excellent, by the way - no reason to have remorse on that purchase. I use the Lee collet dies and don't feel any reason to find another way to accomplish that task - my runout is always very very low. I NS and FL size my brass depending on many factors, too much to get into here, but with experience and more reading, you'll find a pattern that works for you.

Reloading is like anything else: there's more than one way to skin a cat. You should learn from others, but there's nothing that says you have to do any of it the same as someone else.

As far as "best" accuracy from sizing dies, most of the top precision shooters are FL sizing because concentricity is completely controlled. But like boltgunluvr said, the BR folks have very idiosyncratic routines that don't necessarily apply to all of us, so don't follow them just because it's what "they" do. I think the best reason to NS is case capacity - I gain a few grains on fireformed brass, and when using Varget, those extra grains really help! And Lee collet dies seem to work the brass a little less than a typical NS die, whether bushing or standard. That's my reason for using them anyway, otherwise, I'm a FL size guy.

ETA:
I didn't really answer your question. If you're starting out, use whatever tools you can get your hands on, especially if you have a local supplier; you'll have time to try other brands and determine a favorite later. I have a favorite brand of reloading tools that nobody around me carries, so if I need a decap pin or a seater stem, I have to order it. (Not so it seems with RCBS, which my local guy has in abundance.) I'm not making a statement about Lee other than cost, but one of the great benefits of buying a $15 Lee RGB die set over an $80+ Redding die set - especially as a beginner - is when you're learning you make mistakes... and stick cases... and scratch dies... or other things. Learn your lessons on the less expensive sets and upgrade later. Don't get caught up - YET - on who does what or which brand is something the others aren't, don't even worry about FL vs NS right now. Just get reloading and learning. No amount of reading or advice will replace time spent pulling that press handle.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

The LEE Collet Die is almost impossible to beat for concentricity.

The mandrel is pretty much centered on the flash hole on one end and the neck on the other. Hard to get a "crooked neck" when using this setup. For my factory chambered rifles I use the Lee Collet die for neck sizing and when they are ready for a shoulder bump I use a Forster Neck Size/Shoulder bump bushing die with the bushing removed.

Bushing dies require careful neck thickness control for proper results. They also require the use of some lube. No lube at all with the Lee Die and neck tension is controlled by the mandrel, not the thickness of the brass at the case neck.

For those that shudder at the thought that Lee could make something this good, never fear. Their patent will expire soon and then they can buy the same tool from Redding, RCBS, Forster, Lyman, et al, for twice the price (or more).

 

[Senna11]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

The LCD for me too.

One thing I'd like to make you aware of however is the fact that either the standard production .260 Rem or 6.5x55 LCD's can be easily modified to work perfectly with the Creedmoor.

I've done several LCD mods and the results have been perfect and for less money and time than a custom die from Lee would be.

If you're interested I'd be happy to help you out for the cost of shipping the die back to you.

 

[sakobob]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

+1 . i to found the same . it is difficult to reach over your high dollar bushing die to grab a 20 $ lcd and use it to get more concentric loads.

 

[dbshabo]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

Senna11...I sent you a PM about your post. What do you have to do to mod the .260 or 6.5x55 die to work with the Creedmoor? Thanks to all for the replies. Senna check your messages.

Shabo

 

[Jimlaw83]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

+1 lee collet die. Compared to my Hornady and Forster BR dies, it averages less than half the runout, and if you want to control neck tension, just call them and they will send you different sized mandrels for $5 apiece. I settled on .002 neck tension with my 260, but can go as far as .004

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

If you have the Hornady die already... Use it!
Spend the $$$ on powder and bullets instead. (Or maybe some headspace/bullet ogive measuring tools, if you don't have them already..)

Finding the correct load for your rifle is going to shrink your groups more than buying a different die...

You can always get the Lee collet die later on when your ready to try something different!
If you've made your mind up already, and HAVE to buy more dies tho.. my vote is also for the Lee collet die, and Redding body die for bumping shoulders.

Good luck!

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

After I got a concentricity gage I started checking both sized case necks and loaded ammo. I soon got rid of a couple of 'bushing' sizers and changed my FL dies into 'homemade' body sizers to be used with Lee's Collet Neck dies to obtain straighter necks in fully sized cases.

 

[usmc02xx]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

+1 lcd. works great for me. like a previous poster said, its falling into the flash hole and guiding it up so no chance to screw it up. And added bonus is that you can deprime, necksize, and prime in one full swing of press.

Of course I'm one of those guys that think that cleaning cases isn't worth the effort since im gonna make it dirty again asap...

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

I used a lee collet for years with good results, moved on to redding neck bushing dies and then to redding full length bushing dies and they are all I use now.

 

[njnicky]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

I have only used the lee collet i really cant speak for any other neck sizers, but thus far I havent had a problem. Not to mention the cost was minimal.

 

[.50 Cal Cow]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

I have been dabbling in this game for around only 6 months now but have been piece mealing the bench as I go. Leaving me with all sorts of dies discussed. Was actually playing around with my 300wm reloading using both the Hornady FL die on one set of brass and the Lee Collet Neck on another set.

With my Hornady FL die (both my 300wm and 30-06) I seem to be getting a lot of case/bullet runout. I am more leaning at this point to it being my technique. Seems that there is a lot of neck tension on the sized brass and the expander ball and die is very finicky with type of lube and amount used. Tried one shot, rcbs and imperial wax all with varying amounts of success.

After playing around with the Lee die I'm excited to say that I'm figuring out just how to use this and actually loaded my proudest quality loads this weekend as far as runout is concerned. There is actually a very good two part video on youtube but a fellow named ammosmith who will teach you how to make the most out of the die and everytime I watch it I figure it out more and more. But I'm learning if you are meticulous about recording your technique you can actually fine tune your neck tension just the same by tracking the amount you are turning the die in. Sure you won't be able to quantify it, by say a bushing dimension, but to me its fairly relative as I'm just looking to be able to repeat what I did last time i.e. that buzzword "consistent".

But for sure as stated above on the finish of the Lee. It definitely wasn't as pretty as the hornadys or reddings. But of little concern to me as it's functional.

Now as for the others I have a Forster bushing neck size/shoulder bump die for my .308 and the fancy pants Redding comp bushing die set for my .338 and they both seem to produce minimal runout with minimal effort if the brass is decent.

So in the end jury's still out for me on the Hornady until I can prove its not me, the Lee Collet is a no brainer for the price even if you upgrade later on, and the high dollar ones make life easy from the get go if you can follow their instructions.

Hope any of it helps from a fellow newb.

 

[30SMK]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

I would say redding bushing dies for any sizing neck of FL. They are easy to use and I get the neck tension I want.

Good luck

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

I use a redding NO die from the competition kit (micrometer head with sliding sleave) and get excellent concentricity.

But I'm going to state that in this case, it IS the Indian and not the arrow. A skilled reloader can take the LCD or the RCDS and make equally superb ammo with either arrangement, once the reloader understands the tool, its uses and limitations. Heck, A skilled reloader can take the FL die and do NO sizing with it!

 

[easygoose]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

Use an LE Wilson neck sizer

 

[KelsonAK]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

I have been using a full length die with the expander taken out to bump shoulders and a lee collet die to size the neck.

Take the lee appart and polish things up, and also clean it every once in a while and you will be a much happier reloader

 

[Ring]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

LEE

 

[Hopkins]

Re: Neck Sizing Die...Redding or Lee Collet?

Lee CD's work well until the brass work hardens. The necks of your brass will work harden first and you won't get feedback from the use of the CD and that will let you know they need to be annealed. I use Redding body dies to bump the shoulders back to .002 back of a tight fit in the chamber after I run the brass through the Lee CD. You will need some additional tools to do it this way however. At the minimum you will need a headspace gauge and tools to anneal your cases with. Bumping shoulders with predictable results is much easier to do using a Redding Competition Shellholder Set. Annealing seems a daunting task at first but learning how to do it pays big dividends for anyone using pricey brass for reloading.