As i am finally getting all my reloading stuff together, ive ordered the redding competiton seater with the type s full sizer. I know at some point you need to full length resize the brass so it will fit in the chamber nicely this is why i went with that combo, i was wondering if it would help to get a neck sizer as well to use mainly while after 4th or 5th time shot brass use the full length sizer? Just wondering what some of others thoughts on this would be.
Neck sizing vs Full length dies
- Thread starter NFW
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You should mic a loaded round at the neck. Assuming your running a bolt gun, get a bushing that is .001-.002 smaller than that measurement. If you change brass, you will need to remeasure. If you loading below Max powder charge, you shouldn't have to bump the shoulder every loading. When your bolt gets a little sticky, then bump the shoulder. Just what I do, J
I just neck size with a Lee collet die and check occasional rounds in a Lee Wilson or Dillon chamber guage. No stuck cases, but do FLS every 3-4 firings depending on the brass. Lapua the best with Nosler a close second, but primer pockets tend to loosen sooner than on Lapua.
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Neck sizing does preserve the life of the brass.
Neck sizing does not lead to more accurate ammo.
They (THEY) say you cannot Neck Only size semi-auto ammo.
Yet I have 4000 rounds through my AR15 that have been NO sized without a single FtF.
I say, perhaps its their procedures and not the NO process itself.
Neck sizing does not lead to more accurate ammo.
They (THEY) say you cannot Neck Only size semi-auto ammo.
Yet I have 4000 rounds through my AR15 that have been NO sized without a single FtF.
I say, perhaps its their procedures and not the NO process itself.
Well the most consistent ammo is FL sized with just enough bump(.001-.0015) to allow the bolt to close, I had some Win 7-08 brass resized to 260 that had 30+ firings, if you NS then have to FL size the consistency is gone.
I agree, I've done both.....In my testing, FL sizing just barely bumping the shoulder is the way to go and is just as accurate as neck sizing only.....Always the same, consistent, unlike just neck sizing for a few firings then having to bump the shoulder back when it gets hard to chamber.
If you just have to neck size only, you CAN do that with a Full Length sizer die. BUT you can't full length size with a neck only sizer die. Read the instruction that come with your dies.
Personally, I F/L size all my rifle brass. I bump the shoulder between .0015" and .003" Remember temperature affects both your chamber when you shoot, as well as the dies when you load. Rounds loaded in the summer when it's hot... Might be .003" or .005 small in the winter.
I pull the firing pin out of the bolt so there isn't any spring tension on the bolt, and bump the shoulder back .0005" at a time until the bolt handle falls on it's own weight. Before doing it that way, check and make sure your bolt will indeed fall on it's own weight. (How do you adjust your dies to move .0005"? I use industrial shims that go from .001" up to .062" I get from MSC Industrial Supply, [used to be Manhattan Supply Company]). There are a couple in the .0015" to .0025" range. When you get a case that works, try it on 3 more cases to make sure the first was a true reading.
Good luck.
Personally, I F/L size all my rifle brass. I bump the shoulder between .0015" and .003" Remember temperature affects both your chamber when you shoot, as well as the dies when you load. Rounds loaded in the summer when it's hot... Might be .003" or .005 small in the winter.
I pull the firing pin out of the bolt so there isn't any spring tension on the bolt, and bump the shoulder back .0005" at a time until the bolt handle falls on it's own weight. Before doing it that way, check and make sure your bolt will indeed fall on it's own weight. (How do you adjust your dies to move .0005"? I use industrial shims that go from .001" up to .062" I get from MSC Industrial Supply, [used to be Manhattan Supply Company]). There are a couple in the .0015" to .0025" range. When you get a case that works, try it on 3 more cases to make sure the first was a true reading.
Good luck.
I guess I am one of the only ones here that sizes in two steps. Here is an article: The Rifleman's Journal: Reloading: Two-Step Sizing and Concentricity
Basically, you neck size first with a neck die that gets you half way from fired dimension to final dimension (as far as neck diameter). The Full Length Sizer takes you the final distance.
Another reason to own a neck sizer... if you want to get a set of custom dies made, you need to fire some brass three times and neck size only. At that point, your brass should very closely match the chamber, and you can send them to Neil Jones or Warner Tool: Neil Jones Custom Products or Warner Tool Company. Warning: when you buy a custom made die, every other die you own will start to feel like it is not doing the job right.
Also, a thrice fired, neck only piece of brass will give you the appropriate headspacing for your rifle. At that point, headspace equals roughly .000" - .001". Like 427Cobra mentions, you can also do it by feel, but I like to see it on a set of calipers. Remember, you must start with virgin brass. Already fired brass will not stretch the same way.
Basically, you neck size first with a neck die that gets you half way from fired dimension to final dimension (as far as neck diameter). The Full Length Sizer takes you the final distance.
Another reason to own a neck sizer... if you want to get a set of custom dies made, you need to fire some brass three times and neck size only. At that point, your brass should very closely match the chamber, and you can send them to Neil Jones or Warner Tool: Neil Jones Custom Products or Warner Tool Company. Warning: when you buy a custom made die, every other die you own will start to feel like it is not doing the job right.
Also, a thrice fired, neck only piece of brass will give you the appropriate headspacing for your rifle. At that point, headspace equals roughly .000" - .001". Like 427Cobra mentions, you can also do it by feel, but I like to see it on a set of calipers. Remember, you must start with virgin brass. Already fired brass will not stretch the same way.
I have tried experiments with S dies, honed neck dies, neck dies, FL dies, small base dies, making my own dies on the lathe with a boring bar, etc.
The shocking result from controlled experiments with populations of brass dedicated to a die is that the Lee Collet neck die, cheap and looks cheap, has just killer performance. That is improvements concentricity, lack of neck cracking, and lack of case length growth.
That collet neck die sat on my shelf for years being judged by it's cost and appearance. Now it is getting used.
The shocking result from controlled experiments with populations of brass dedicated to a die is that the Lee Collet neck die, cheap and looks cheap, has just killer performance. That is improvements concentricity, lack of neck cracking, and lack of case length growth.
That collet neck die sat on my shelf for years being judged by it's cost and appearance. Now it is getting used.
Does it cure baldness as well? The problem with the Collet Die is that you can't easily adjust neck tension with it. You could certainly machine it to adjust it, but that defeats the purpose. As for neck cracking and case length growth... those are not problems inherent to the die. Necks crack because of oversizing, which is a function of the difference between fired neck dimension and final sized dimension as well as number of firings. Annealing fixes this, by the way. Case length growth has most to do with the difference between the fired dimensions of the brass and the sized dimension of the brass. I don't really see it as a problem per se. But I use a custom die, anneal every time (I skip sometimes when in a hurry), and trim every time.
I have had to pitch brass for a couple of reasons: 1) primer pocket gets too large, 2) older brass gets set in its ways and then tends to develop some eccentricity... happens at between 15 and 20 firings.
Still... if you are happy with the neck tension that the Lee Collet die gives you, it does deliver concentricity, which is a good thing.
I have had to pitch brass for a couple of reasons: 1) primer pocket gets too large, 2) older brass gets set in its ways and then tends to develop some eccentricity... happens at between 15 and 20 firings.
Still... if you are happy with the neck tension that the Lee Collet die gives you, it does deliver concentricity, which is a good thing.
I push the shoulder with a body die, and have a set of brass that went 35 reload cycles cosistently punching 0.38" 5-shot groups over the whole life of the brass.
The trick is the procedures used and the care applied, not which die gets screwed into the press!
