Alright, I have done some research, and from what I have gathered a neck turner uniforms the brass neck to a consistent thickness. Does this make neck tension more consistent? Is this process worth the time and hassle?
Neck Turning
- Thread starter Quackaddict
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Re: Neck Turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does this make neck tension more consistent? </div></div>
Not in my experience. Hell, I annealed too and the ones that were hard to seat remained hard to seat. I think sorting using a strain gaige is a far better method.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does this make neck tension more consistent? </div></div>
Not in my experience. Hell, I annealed too and the ones that were hard to seat remained hard to seat. I think sorting using a strain gaige is a far better method.
Re: Neck Turning
Yes it improves neck tension consistency but really only worth the effort if you're trying to get your groups down that last little bit. IMO
Only way to tell whether it's worth it to you is to do some and see the result or find some brass that has consistent necks and sort them out and compare to non-sorted brass.
Yes it improves neck tension consistency but really only worth the effort if you're trying to get your groups down that last little bit. IMO
Only way to tell whether it's worth it to you is to do some and see the result or find some brass that has consistent necks and sort them out and compare to non-sorted brass.
Re: Neck Turning
Yes, it makes the necks more consistent,
No, it is not worth the time and effort at the tactical level (better than 1 MoA). At the benchrest level it is worth bringing those loosing 0.18" groups to those winning 0.13" groups. If you have a weapon capable of regularly shooting 5-shot groups inside 0.3" then neck turning might shave off a few more hundredths.
Yes, it makes the necks more consistent,
No, it is not worth the time and effort at the tactical level (better than 1 MoA). At the benchrest level it is worth bringing those loosing 0.18" groups to those winning 0.13" groups. If you have a weapon capable of regularly shooting 5-shot groups inside 0.3" then neck turning might shave off a few more hundredths.
Re: Neck Turning
Ok, that answers my question, the only reason I asked is the other night when I was loading ammo I could feel different cases took more or less pressure to seat the bullet, I wondered if turning the necks would make it more consistent and in turn more accurate.
Ok, that answers my question, the only reason I asked is the other night when I was loading ammo I could feel different cases took more or less pressure to seat the bullet, I wondered if turning the necks would make it more consistent and in turn more accurate.
Re: Neck Turning
How old is the brass? Virgin brass or multiple firings?
If everything is sized the same, the neck tension should be the same. If there is a noticable difference in seating tension, then it is probably coming from the inside of the case neck. There could be case lube present inside the neck from sizing. Or on virgin brass, there is some difference in the texture or smoothness inside the neck. This all makes a difference.
How old is the brass? Virgin brass or multiple firings?
If everything is sized the same, the neck tension should be the same. If there is a noticable difference in seating tension, then it is probably coming from the inside of the case neck. There could be case lube present inside the neck from sizing. Or on virgin brass, there is some difference in the texture or smoothness inside the neck. This all makes a difference.
Re: Neck Turning
While neck turning will make the O.D. and I.D. of the neck concentric, how does it help the rest of the brass?
Plus your going to increase neck clearance (bad for accuracy to some extent)- that's why we use tight neck chambers...
While neck turning will make the O.D. and I.D. of the neck concentric, how does it help the rest of the brass?
Plus your going to increase neck clearance (bad for accuracy to some extent)- that's why we use tight neck chambers...
Re: Neck Turning
It doesn't. It makes brass smaller and forces it to expand more. But 308 chambers are so big and Winchester brass is so small, what's another .001-2"?
It doesn't. It makes brass smaller and forces it to expand more. But 308 chambers are so big and Winchester brass is so small, what's another .001-2"?
Re: Neck Turning
Only a couple more thousanths you have to size the neck down which contributes to work hardening the necks and can lead to runout in a seated bullet.
If you have unequal thickness in the neck the whole lenght of brass will reflect the same. Culling may help in long range accuracy... YMMV
Only a couple more thousanths you have to size the neck down which contributes to work hardening the necks and can lead to runout in a seated bullet.
If you have unequal thickness in the neck the whole lenght of brass will reflect the same. Culling may help in long range accuracy... YMMV
Re: Neck Turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How old is the brass? Virgin brass or multiple firings?
If everything is sized the same, the neck tension should be the same. If there is a noticable difference in seating tension, then it is probably coming from the inside of the case neck. There could be case lube present inside the neck from sizing. Or on virgin brass, there is some difference in the texture or smoothness inside the neck. This all makes a difference.
</div></div>
One fired and beyond has much less difference in the feel of seating the bullet. New Lapua on the other hand varies from case to case. As a result I never work up loads with it and basically use new case ammo for fun work on dingers and such. The accuracy opens up a bit, but still acceptable for the stuff I do.
I have only needed to neck size so far, I don't use lube on the cases when I neck size.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How old is the brass? Virgin brass or multiple firings?
If everything is sized the same, the neck tension should be the same. If there is a noticable difference in seating tension, then it is probably coming from the inside of the case neck. There could be case lube present inside the neck from sizing. Or on virgin brass, there is some difference in the texture or smoothness inside the neck. This all makes a difference.
</div></div>
One fired and beyond has much less difference in the feel of seating the bullet. New Lapua on the other hand varies from case to case. As a result I never work up loads with it and basically use new case ammo for fun work on dingers and such. The accuracy opens up a bit, but still acceptable for the stuff I do.
I have only needed to neck size so far, I don't use lube on the cases when I neck size.
Re: Neck Turning
Ok. If you have a lot of firings on the brass (3-5), you may need to anneal. Some brass needs annealing sooner than others. On the virgin brass, take a nylon brush with a touch of mica on it and brush the inside of the neck with it. This will help with keeping the necks consistant. Also, chamfer the inside of the virgin brass. Some have a slight edge on the inside which will effect seating tension and score the bullet some. If needed, raise the brass up into a sizing die to just touch the expander ball to even out the case neck (if needed), then chamfer.
Ok. If you have a lot of firings on the brass (3-5), you may need to anneal. Some brass needs annealing sooner than others. On the virgin brass, take a nylon brush with a touch of mica on it and brush the inside of the neck with it. This will help with keeping the necks consistant. Also, chamfer the inside of the virgin brass. Some have a slight edge on the inside which will effect seating tension and score the bullet some. If needed, raise the brass up into a sizing die to just touch the expander ball to even out the case neck (if needed), then chamfer.
Re: Neck Turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, that answers my question, the only reason I asked is the other night when I was loading ammo I could feel different cases took more or less pressure to seat the bullet, I wondered if turning the necks would make it more consistent and in turn more accurate. </div></div>
The tension varies because the neck wall thickness varies. Have you ever measured commercial brass for NWT? Take a ball mic and measure a few cases at the 12:00, 4:00 and 8:00 positions. They can be off by .015" in spots.
What people aren't telling you here is if you're going to take the time to turn the necks, you'll want to inside ream them to remove those 'high spots' that have only been pushed in like Chad states, via bushing dies or even plain old fixed dies.
I was loading up 50 RA61 cases with nine cycles on them, the other night using a .335" or .336" bushing (can't recall) and all went in smoothly. Some were a tad harder to seat, but one that I seated, I could twist the bullet out of the neck with little effort. This one had very thin neck walls and I needed to use a .334" bushing to get the same tension that the others had with the original size that I used.
Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, that answers my question, the only reason I asked is the other night when I was loading ammo I could feel different cases took more or less pressure to seat the bullet, I wondered if turning the necks would make it more consistent and in turn more accurate. </div></div>
The tension varies because the neck wall thickness varies. Have you ever measured commercial brass for NWT? Take a ball mic and measure a few cases at the 12:00, 4:00 and 8:00 positions. They can be off by .015" in spots.
What people aren't telling you here is if you're going to take the time to turn the necks, you'll want to inside ream them to remove those 'high spots' that have only been pushed in like Chad states, via bushing dies or even plain old fixed dies.
I was loading up 50 RA61 cases with nine cycles on them, the other night using a .335" or .336" bushing (can't recall) and all went in smoothly. Some were a tad harder to seat, but one that I seated, I could twist the bullet out of the neck with little effort. This one had very thin neck walls and I needed to use a .334" bushing to get the same tension that the others had with the original size that I used.
Chris
Re: Neck Turning
"If everything is sized the same, the neck tension should be the same."
If the cases have varying thicknesses either in the individual case or between different cases the neck tension must be different.
Right?
"If everything is sized the same, the neck tension should be the same."
If the cases have varying thicknesses either in the individual case or between different cases the neck tension must be different.
Right?
Re: Neck Turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What people aren't telling you here is if you're going to take the time to turn the necks, you'll want to inside ream them to remove those 'high spots' that have only been pushed in like Chad states, via bushing dies or even plain old fixed dies.</div></div>
What your seeing when you check neck thickness with ball mikes in neck wall thickness variance. NO amount of reaming is going to reduce it. The reamer follows the point of least resistance, will NOT make the O.D. and I.D of the neck concentric. All you'll end up with is a bigger hole with the same value of neck thickness variance. You use the expansion arbor that's paired with the turning arbor to iron out the necks and then turn the necks which equalizes neck thickness.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What people aren't telling you here is if you're going to take the time to turn the necks, you'll want to inside ream them to remove those 'high spots' that have only been pushed in like Chad states, via bushing dies or even plain old fixed dies.</div></div>
What your seeing when you check neck thickness with ball mikes in neck wall thickness variance. NO amount of reaming is going to reduce it. The reamer follows the point of least resistance, will NOT make the O.D. and I.D of the neck concentric. All you'll end up with is a bigger hole with the same value of neck thickness variance. You use the expansion arbor that's paired with the turning arbor to iron out the necks and then turn the necks which equalizes neck thickness.
Re: Neck Turning
Quack,
You may wish to try Victors BR trick of cleaning the inside of the neck with 4-0 steel wool wrapped around an old bore brush and placed in a drill. Gets rid of any combustion build up or rough spots from champhering.
HTH,
DocB
Quack,
You may wish to try Victors BR trick of cleaning the inside of the neck with 4-0 steel wool wrapped around an old bore brush and placed in a drill. Gets rid of any combustion build up or rough spots from champhering.
HTH,
DocB
Re: Neck Turning
Mate, neck turning.... if you dont have to dont. Its only fun the first couple of cases, then it sucks. It really becomes a chore.
Saying that, I have two rifles that I must neck turn for. Both are tight neck with minimal turn.
Also, if you start with quality brass.. well it speaks for itself.
I have a 6mmBeggs in a BR rifle, hence neck turning trying to squeeze every last bit of accuracy out... the other is a 300WSM tact rifle. The 300WSM winchester brass is very inconsistant through the neck. I did not turn to clean whole neck, just light skim to take some/most of the high spots off.
Cheers
Mate, neck turning.... if you dont have to dont. Its only fun the first couple of cases, then it sucks. It really becomes a chore.
Saying that, I have two rifles that I must neck turn for. Both are tight neck with minimal turn.
Also, if you start with quality brass.. well it speaks for itself.
I have a 6mmBeggs in a BR rifle, hence neck turning trying to squeeze every last bit of accuracy out... the other is a 300WSM tact rifle. The 300WSM winchester brass is very inconsistant through the neck. I did not turn to clean whole neck, just light skim to take some/most of the high spots off.
Cheers
Re: Neck Turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ackley Improved</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mate, neck turning.... if you dont have to dont. Its only fun the first couple of cases, then it sucks. It really becomes a chore.
</div></div>
+1... I can agree with that. I usually don't turn case necks except for match ammo in match rifles.
If the brass in question has been fired more than 4 or 5 times, it's probably loosing neck tension due to work hardening. And the more you size it & work it the worse it will get. Sometimes annealing will help get back some of it. But if it has gone too far, sometimes that won't make it "like new again".
You probably need to be checking for donuts inside the case neck at the shoulder junction also.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ackley Improved</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mate, neck turning.... if you dont have to dont. Its only fun the first couple of cases, then it sucks. It really becomes a chore.
</div></div>
+1... I can agree with that. I usually don't turn case necks except for match ammo in match rifles.
If the brass in question has been fired more than 4 or 5 times, it's probably loosing neck tension due to work hardening. And the more you size it & work it the worse it will get. Sometimes annealing will help get back some of it. But if it has gone too far, sometimes that won't make it "like new again".
You probably need to be checking for donuts inside the case neck at the shoulder junction also.
Re: Neck Turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AJ300MAG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What people aren't telling you here is if you're going to take the time to turn the necks, you'll want to inside ream them to remove those 'high spots' that have only been pushed in like Chad states, via bushing dies or even plain old fixed dies.</div></div>
What your seeing when you check neck thickness with ball mikes in neck wall thickness variance. NO amount of reaming is going to reduce it. The reamer follows the point of least resistance, will NOT make the O.D. and I.D of the neck concentric. All you'll end up with is a bigger hole with the same value of neck thickness variance. You use the expansion arbor that's paired with the turning arbor to iron out the necks and then turn the necks which equalizes neck thickness.
</div></div>
+1
The best solution is to turn the neck and then inside ream using an inlinre ream die. These dies FL size the case, and while the case is fully supported inside the die, you are able to run a reamer through the top (where the decapper assembly normally sits) and clean-up the inside of the neck.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AJ300MAG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What people aren't telling you here is if you're going to take the time to turn the necks, you'll want to inside ream them to remove those 'high spots' that have only been pushed in like Chad states, via bushing dies or even plain old fixed dies.</div></div>
What your seeing when you check neck thickness with ball mikes in neck wall thickness variance. NO amount of reaming is going to reduce it. The reamer follows the point of least resistance, will NOT make the O.D. and I.D of the neck concentric. All you'll end up with is a bigger hole with the same value of neck thickness variance. You use the expansion arbor that's paired with the turning arbor to iron out the necks and then turn the necks which equalizes neck thickness.
</div></div>
+1
The best solution is to turn the neck and then inside ream using an inlinre ream die. These dies FL size the case, and while the case is fully supported inside the die, you are able to run a reamer through the top (where the decapper assembly normally sits) and clean-up the inside of the neck.
