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Need Advice - Ladder Vs. OCW, First Attempt

vh20

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 2, 2012
3,876
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Hi, Everyone
I'm about to run either a Ladder Test or the Optimal Charge Wt. test (OCW, as seen on Dan Newberry's site) on a new .338LM. I've always done the old-school load-development thing of just loading up to shoot groups of different charge wts., so this will be a new experience for me. I have chosen my components: Lapua brass, CCI 250 primer, Retumbo powder, and 300 gr. SMK bullet. Hodgdon lists loads for this combo as 85.0 min/94.0 max.

I was wondering what the general preference here is concerning these two tests. Also, If someone could give some insight into what increments they would suggest. Most examples I have seen use about 0.3 grain increments, but they are only dealing with total charge wts. of around 35-40 gr. I was thinking something like 0.7 or 0.8 gr. increments might be more appropriate for these heavier charges? I was also wondering if in the lower ranges, does anyone make slightly larger increments (like maybe 1.0 gr) until they're up into more reasonable MV ranges?

Any and all advice is welcome. Thanks!
 
Re: Need Advice - Ladder Vs. OCW, First Attempt

You're on the right track. I'll tell you what I do after doing a lot of development with all of the methods. They all will pretty much get you to the same end, but I think I've really shrunk it down to the lowest common denominator. I think it's the fastest way to get there too.


The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
Finding the best load for your rifle with a given set of components; bullet, primer, powder etc... has been quite an exercise at times. There are many methods to the end, but the end really is always the same. We want an accurate load with adequate velocity and we want that load to have as close to ZERO vertical dispersion as possible at long range. Long range shooting demands that particular parameter.
With other methods of development your load is not guaranteed to be void of vertical at long range.
Shooting groups at 100 yards with the OCW method even shot round robin style may find you a good 100 yard load. More than likely you’ll have to change something after you shoot it at long range and see the ugly vertical it produced. I’ve had plenty of 100 yard loads that shoot big 1-hole groups that string vertically at long range. It entails a lot of testing and you can’t usually get it done with one trip to the range.
Shooting a long range Audette Ladder is a step better and will generally isolate a node of 3 loads that MAY have no vertical. Then you have to load a few of each of the loads in the node to test at long range to pick the best one. Again, multiple trips to the range are necessary. More trips if you have to do seating depth adjustments on the load you think is best.
Then there’s the issue of left over ammo that doesn’t shoot well. You either have to use them as foulers or pull the bullets, dump the powder, resize the case. The pulled bullets really are not as good as fresh out of the box so they’re compromised.
When shooting at long range the problem of seeing your impacts is huge even with a good spotting scope. I usually have to drive down range every so often to label the target as to which hole is which load. Sucks.
I think I’ve just about perfected a method of load development that will result in the best long range load (a load with as close to zero vertical as possible) with as little shooting as possible in the shortest amount of time possible; usually one trip to the range.
First, all of the testing will be done at the longest range possible. I’ve been using 600 yards because of our F-Class range. Big target boards.
I’ve solved the problem of being able to see impacts at this range. At first I was using just a big 36”x36” steel plate painted black. The impacts were easy to see, but you need to drive down range and paint it often to stay organized. This just isn’t possible if there are others using the range. Yesterday I made some homemade “Shoot ‘N See” targets and used them at 600 yards. They worked great. You can see the impacts with just your rifle scope. The target is a piece of cardboard with a black trash bag taped to it. I spray painted the bag white, sprayed an orange dot on it as an aim point. I made 4 of them about 3 feet high and 2 feet wide. Each has room for 3 sprayed on aim points. Yesterday I used three of the boards on the target rack so I had 9 aim points.
Here’s the method:
I’m not going to go into brass prep or how to find the starting OAL for the bullet chosen as I assume you know how to do these things.
At your home bench properly prep your brass. The more brass you have the better. I’ve used 100 pieces in 2 loading blocks for this. You then want to charge your cases. If it’s a brand new rifle and components and you don’t really have an idea where you will find accuracy or pressure, look at the loading manual data and charge 10 cases at the max load then progressively move down either .2 or .3 grains depending on the case volume of the cartridge charging the next 10 and so on till you have all 100 cases charged. You will have 10 sets of 10 cases that are in graduations of .2 or .3 grains.
You need to have your press mounted so it is portable. Mine is mounted on a Black and Decker Workmate style table that I can put in the truck bed. You need to take your press, seating die, calipers, comparator, and loose bullets to the range. All of the bullet seating will be done there. The powder weighing is important and you want it to be consistent, that’s why I do it at home the way it will be done when the load is solidified. I’ve tried weighing at the range but I think it introduces a variable that can go wrong.
Seat bullets into 2 of the starting (lowest charge weight) load cases. I will also assume you have a reasonable expectation of being on the paper by ball parking the data into your scope. For this test I assume you can sight in at the range you’re shooting.
Shoot the first to shells at a particular aim point. Keep the aim points straight as to which ones correspond to which loads. If the two impacts are close together and show no vertical stringing tendency, seat another bullet into a case from that set and shoot it at the same aim point. Continue this until you see vertical from that set or think it’s the perfect load. Shoot at least 5 if no stringing is seen in the first 4. You may see ugly vertical stringing between the first and second shot. If this is the case, don’t seat any more bullets into that set of cases. Move on to the next set of cases that have a higher charge and repeat. Soon you will find the charge that has zero vertical stringing. When you are satisfied you have found The Load, seat bullets into the rest of the cases that contain that load. If you are lucky and have a range like mine, you will then be able to nail down the drop data for your load immediately. My range has steel that can be shot from the same bench from 220 yards out to 780 yards. Make sure you get a good 100 yard zero first.
You will have found a long range load in one trip with as little shooting possible. You will not have to pull any bullets or re-size any cases but simply dump the powder from the cases back into your measure at home. You didn't need to set up a chronograph. A load that has no vertical dispersion is telling you that it has consistent velocity.
I’ve taken a scale to the range to make more of The Load from the other charged cases if you have shot most of the best loads. It works and I recommend doing so. You can then seat bullets in the best load and have enough to really nail the drop data in the same trip.
 
Re: Need Advice - Ladder Vs. OCW, First Attempt

DIdn't have a chance to read the above post completely, so forgive me if I'm redundant... with the .338, I would do 1 grain to find max pressure and general ladder. Then run a second test with .5 grain increments later to fine tune. Good Luck!
 
Re: Need Advice - Ladder Vs. OCW, First Attempt

The above is something I have written and saved to try to help folks; the method has been working well for me. It is basically shooting groups at long range. You do the bullet seating at the range so that you don't have to pull a bunch of bullets out of rounds that shoot like shit. You get it done in one range session without going back and forth to your house and the range for more testing.

With the Lapua case capacity, I'd go .5 grain increments
 
Re: Need Advice - Ladder Vs. OCW, First Attempt

Finally think I just found a load for my 338. Basically did a combination of the two actually. Did a ladder at 300 yards and found a good node. Then taking the range of that node I did a truncated OCW around those charge weights. Just went out this past Tuesday with two sets of loads to fine tune the charge weights and was able to print this 5 round group at 300 yards. I'm not sure what happened on the flyer. It seemed like my groups at 400 and 500 were decent but at 500 had same thing with a flyer.

Load was 250SMK, 96.4gr H1000 and Fed 215M primers.
20130108_122216_zpse506490e.jpg
 
Re: Need Advice - Ladder Vs. OCW, First Attempt

Did also forget to mention that when I did my charge weights I actually used .3 grain increments.
 
Re: Need Advice - Ladder Vs. OCW, First Attempt

Thanks, everyone. Good suggestions!