Would like to here what pros and if any cons that you guys have on turning necks. Also, what equipment does it take as well as wich one has the most bang for the buck.
Thanks
Hombre
Thanks
Hombre
need advice on neck turning
- Thread starter hombre
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Re: need advice on neck turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hombre</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would like to here what pros and if any cons that you guys have on turning necks. Also, what equipment does it take as well as wich one has the most bang for the buck.
Thanks
Hombre </div></div>
Turning necks will give you consistent neck tension from round to round. I usually turn all my necks but didn’t on my .260 using Nosler Brass. The thing shoots like a freak. If using quality brass like Lapua, Nosler or Norma you can get away with very little brass prep. If using Remington or Winchester, it needs all the help it can get and neck turning is a good start. Get the Hart Neck Turning Tool and don’t look back. No matter the direction you go, use bushing dies for sure.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hombre</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would like to here what pros and if any cons that you guys have on turning necks. Also, what equipment does it take as well as wich one has the most bang for the buck.
Thanks
Hombre </div></div>
Turning necks will give you consistent neck tension from round to round. I usually turn all my necks but didn’t on my .260 using Nosler Brass. The thing shoots like a freak. If using quality brass like Lapua, Nosler or Norma you can get away with very little brass prep. If using Remington or Winchester, it needs all the help it can get and neck turning is a good start. Get the Hart Neck Turning Tool and don’t look back. No matter the direction you go, use bushing dies for sure.
Re: need advice on neck turning
I tried it, and for the amount of time I took doing it, I did not see enough of a return to continue. The way I figured, if my throats are cut to allow .002 clearance each side around the neck when fired then I'm ok unless I have some really bad brass. As far as equipment, I purchase all mine from Sinclair and have always been impressed.
I tried it, and for the amount of time I took doing it, I did not see enough of a return to continue. The way I figured, if my throats are cut to allow .002 clearance each side around the neck when fired then I'm ok unless I have some really bad brass. As far as equipment, I purchase all mine from Sinclair and have always been impressed.
Re: need advice on neck turning
One other question, is it better to have a tighter neck or one that is not quite so tight. I'm using win. brass and how often do you would have to turn the necks say on win. brass. I have only been reloading for about a year and I'm having a 300 win. mag built buy APA and have about 400 pcs of 1 once fired win. brass. Just trying to better my reloading capabilities and also try to make more consistant loads.
Thanks
Hombre
One other question, is it better to have a tighter neck or one that is not quite so tight. I'm using win. brass and how often do you would have to turn the necks say on win. brass. I have only been reloading for about a year and I'm having a 300 win. mag built buy APA and have about 400 pcs of 1 once fired win. brass. Just trying to better my reloading capabilities and also try to make more consistant loads.
Thanks
Hombre
Re: need advice on neck turning
it all depends on what the gun will be used for. I have tight necks on my target guns. But not on anything else
it all depends on what the gun will be used for. I have tight necks on my target guns. But not on anything else
Re: need advice on neck turning
Unless he gets the "dreaded do-nut" and has to either ream or turn in and expand out.
Unless he gets the "dreaded do-nut" and has to either ream or turn in and expand out.
Re: need advice on neck turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GreatGonzo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hombre, you should only have to turn the brass one time. </div></div>
Yes and sometimes if you leave them a touch thick you can re turn them after 4 or 5 firings. Which i have seen help a bunch but not everytime. I neck turn my comp stuff and like WM pointed out it depends on what type of brass you are using. Just touching it a little can help runout a bunch. You dont ever have to clean the whole outside of the case up. A very very big help then doing this is using a expander that is .308 of .309 and a pilot on your turning tool that is .002" smaller will help them come out even better(matter of fact i find it a must when turning).
To point out something else that has helped me alot is the forester trimmer i use. They make inside neck reamers that can really help alot! I use them in .0005" increments to play with my neck tension without having to use bushing dies like WM said. Some guns will like different tension and so will some bullet and powder/primer combos. Its all a matter of what you expect out of your rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GreatGonzo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hombre, you should only have to turn the brass one time. </div></div>
Yes and sometimes if you leave them a touch thick you can re turn them after 4 or 5 firings. Which i have seen help a bunch but not everytime. I neck turn my comp stuff and like WM pointed out it depends on what type of brass you are using. Just touching it a little can help runout a bunch. You dont ever have to clean the whole outside of the case up. A very very big help then doing this is using a expander that is .308 of .309 and a pilot on your turning tool that is .002" smaller will help them come out even better(matter of fact i find it a must when turning).
To point out something else that has helped me alot is the forester trimmer i use. They make inside neck reamers that can really help alot! I use them in .0005" increments to play with my neck tension without having to use bushing dies like WM said. Some guns will like different tension and so will some bullet and powder/primer combos. Its all a matter of what you expect out of your rifle.
Re: need advice on neck turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unless he gets the "dreaded do-nut" and has to either ream or turn in and expand out. </div></div>
To address this problem.......
I expand up one caliber and then turn to the shoulder intersection. It does not hurt anything unless you actually go up into the shoulder area. This also is a really neat trick when you need to fire form brass. I expand up one caliber and them leave a false shoulder for a bump in the chamber so you dont have to put the bullet into the lands. Just run your sizing die out a good turn or two then creep it back until you feel the round chamber tightly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unless he gets the "dreaded do-nut" and has to either ream or turn in and expand out. </div></div>
To address this problem.......
I expand up one caliber and then turn to the shoulder intersection. It does not hurt anything unless you actually go up into the shoulder area. This also is a really neat trick when you need to fire form brass. I expand up one caliber and them leave a false shoulder for a bump in the chamber so you dont have to put the bullet into the lands. Just run your sizing die out a good turn or two then creep it back until you feel the round chamber tightly.
Re: need advice on neck turning
You can get a similar result by grinding the base of a FL die a bit and bumping the shoulder down an extra 0.020" or so. Then turn to the "new" shoulder. You do have to seat into the lands in order to bump the shoulder back out though.
You can get a similar result by grinding the base of a FL die a bit and bumping the shoulder down an extra 0.020" or so. Then turn to the "new" shoulder. You do have to seat into the lands in order to bump the shoulder back out though.
Re: need advice on neck turning
Unless you are shooting <1MOA 5 shot groups, I wouldn't mess with it. However... Since the last several rifles I have had were either benchrest rifles or VERY good shooters from the bench, I do on occassion turn to clean up thin & thick spots.
For the benchrest rifles with a specified tight neck chamber, after finding the neck thickness I need to have, I set up one of my neck turners on an amount that leaves precisely half. Then I take the last half with another cutter. Having taken it in 2 steps, saves on the heat and distortion of the case necks.
If you are thinking of turning for a factory chamber, I would inspect all the brass I have and find the very worse case. Then plan on removing aproximately 80% of the high spot. Go with that figure and keep it to the light side.
Never remove more than half of the neck wall thickness.
You can get into trouble taking too much metal from the case necks.
Moving the neck down excessively is a good way to start case head seperations. If you have the donut get a reamer the size of your bullet + .001" and remove it by reamer.
Good luck.
Unless you are shooting <1MOA 5 shot groups, I wouldn't mess with it. However... Since the last several rifles I have had were either benchrest rifles or VERY good shooters from the bench, I do on occassion turn to clean up thin & thick spots.
For the benchrest rifles with a specified tight neck chamber, after finding the neck thickness I need to have, I set up one of my neck turners on an amount that leaves precisely half. Then I take the last half with another cutter. Having taken it in 2 steps, saves on the heat and distortion of the case necks.
If you are thinking of turning for a factory chamber, I would inspect all the brass I have and find the very worse case. Then plan on removing aproximately 80% of the high spot. Go with that figure and keep it to the light side.
Never remove more than half of the neck wall thickness.
You can get into trouble taking too much metal from the case necks.
Moving the neck down excessively is a good way to start case head seperations. If you have the donut get a reamer the size of your bullet + .001" and remove it by reamer.
Good luck.
Re: need advice on neck turning
This is all new to me so trying to follow along. I haven't bought any equipment yet. As far as I know the 300win.mag is just a regular chamber but APA is building the gun. Might have to call Jared on Monday and talk to him about the build. I don't mind a little extra work on the brass as long as i'm getting something in return even if its just a piece of mind.
Thanks for all the info
Hombre
This is all new to me so trying to follow along. I haven't bought any equipment yet. As far as I know the 300win.mag is just a regular chamber but APA is building the gun. Might have to call Jared on Monday and talk to him about the build. I don't mind a little extra work on the brass as long as i'm getting something in return even if its just a piece of mind.
Thanks for all the info
Hombre
Re: need advice on neck turning
Depends on your neck dimension. Most 30 cal necks run large and FB. (will let you figure out that acronym)
On 308s I have four reamers for 308 that cut .337, .339, .341 and SAAMI which is FB.
A .339 neck will just chamber LC Match M118. The .337 will just chamber Fed Match and unturned Winchester brass and I have not found a LC round that will even start in.
The BR boys will use chambers .001" larger than loaded rounds.
Recommendation for you. When he builds your rifle he will take a whack off the muzzle and trash it. Ask him to run his reamer in the trash section of barrel up to the shoulder and then turn the other end off to where you have about 1/8" of throat showing.
This will do several very neat things for you. It gives you an exact knowledge of where your case neck is in relation to the length so you can watch your neck length grow and KNOW EXACTLY WHERE YOU ARE. Also it tells you if you have any loaded rounds that may bind in the chamber without having to actually load the rifle to find out. Also tells you how LOOSE (FB) your necks are.
Most chambers in relation to the OAL of the case are long anyhow so you don't necessarily have to trim your necks to factory length as long as you know where you are and takes all the guesswork out of it.
Once you can see how loose your necks are in your chamber you will know the answer to neck turning for your own rifle.
For max case life I would also order a custom reamer to your specs and have all your barrels cut with your own reamer. Reamer specs are arrived at simply by:
Take fifty new unfired loaded rounds and a good mic and measure the case dimension .200" up from rim and record for all rounds. OK lets say you have a max base dimension of .465 so your base dimension on the reamer can be .467". It will expand .002" on firing and spring back leaving you with .4655"to .466" base and you will not even see any case head swell at all.
On the neck do the same thing and depending on your degree of loading knowledge and attention to detail you may have loaded rounds giving you .338" so you can order .339 or .340.
Have him chamber it to snug on a GO GAGE. This combination should result in a max movement of .002" in case body, case neck and shoulder location and zilch for body length stretch. You will also be amazed at how much your case life will go up. The only thing you have to worry about then is case quality. If you have good brass you can achieve over 100 reloads on your cases depending on your load discipline. (Don't try to get mag vels out of standard cases)
The absolutely finest brass I have ever had the pleasure of loading is DWM. Very tight primer pockets and hard heads. I suspect with the proper reamer these cases properly cared for would go 200 reloads.
I have one LC 63 Match 30.06 case I have loaded 157 times and it is waiting for the testing to continue. Primer pocket is still tight. I have no knowledge of any US commercial cases lasting anywhere near that case life. IMI and Prvi Partisan give early indication of longer case life.
Proper case care will include cleaning in stainless media bath, reasonable loads, proper neck/shoulder stress relieving. Read comments of Suasponte on this subject, he knows the game and has posted outstanding photographs to show the proper techniques so no use going over that here.
Also would not hurt to get a MO gage for the cals you will be using and L.E. Wilson case gages.
Depends on your neck dimension. Most 30 cal necks run large and FB. (will let you figure out that acronym)
On 308s I have four reamers for 308 that cut .337, .339, .341 and SAAMI which is FB.
A .339 neck will just chamber LC Match M118. The .337 will just chamber Fed Match and unturned Winchester brass and I have not found a LC round that will even start in.
The BR boys will use chambers .001" larger than loaded rounds.
Recommendation for you. When he builds your rifle he will take a whack off the muzzle and trash it. Ask him to run his reamer in the trash section of barrel up to the shoulder and then turn the other end off to where you have about 1/8" of throat showing.
This will do several very neat things for you. It gives you an exact knowledge of where your case neck is in relation to the length so you can watch your neck length grow and KNOW EXACTLY WHERE YOU ARE. Also it tells you if you have any loaded rounds that may bind in the chamber without having to actually load the rifle to find out. Also tells you how LOOSE (FB) your necks are.
Most chambers in relation to the OAL of the case are long anyhow so you don't necessarily have to trim your necks to factory length as long as you know where you are and takes all the guesswork out of it.
Once you can see how loose your necks are in your chamber you will know the answer to neck turning for your own rifle.
For max case life I would also order a custom reamer to your specs and have all your barrels cut with your own reamer. Reamer specs are arrived at simply by:
Take fifty new unfired loaded rounds and a good mic and measure the case dimension .200" up from rim and record for all rounds. OK lets say you have a max base dimension of .465 so your base dimension on the reamer can be .467". It will expand .002" on firing and spring back leaving you with .4655"to .466" base and you will not even see any case head swell at all.
On the neck do the same thing and depending on your degree of loading knowledge and attention to detail you may have loaded rounds giving you .338" so you can order .339 or .340.
Have him chamber it to snug on a GO GAGE. This combination should result in a max movement of .002" in case body, case neck and shoulder location and zilch for body length stretch. You will also be amazed at how much your case life will go up. The only thing you have to worry about then is case quality. If you have good brass you can achieve over 100 reloads on your cases depending on your load discipline. (Don't try to get mag vels out of standard cases)
The absolutely finest brass I have ever had the pleasure of loading is DWM. Very tight primer pockets and hard heads. I suspect with the proper reamer these cases properly cared for would go 200 reloads.
I have one LC 63 Match 30.06 case I have loaded 157 times and it is waiting for the testing to continue. Primer pocket is still tight. I have no knowledge of any US commercial cases lasting anywhere near that case life. IMI and Prvi Partisan give early indication of longer case life.
Proper case care will include cleaning in stainless media bath, reasonable loads, proper neck/shoulder stress relieving. Read comments of Suasponte on this subject, he knows the game and has posted outstanding photographs to show the proper techniques so no use going over that here.
Also would not hurt to get a MO gage for the cals you will be using and L.E. Wilson case gages.
