I want to start neck turning my .223 brass. I could use some help choosing a good set of produts. I was looking at the K and M products, with the Redding body die, and Redding neck gauge. What else would I need if anything?
Need advise on neck turning
- Thread starter squirrelsnpr
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Re: Need advise on neck turning
I don't mean to offend you but neck-turning is a complete waste of time! Take a guy who spends time on the trigger and one who spends time turning down necks and the trigger-presser will shoot better groups all day everday.
I don't mean to offend you but neck-turning is a complete waste of time! Take a guy who spends time on the trigger and one who spends time turning down necks and the trigger-presser will shoot better groups all day everday.
Re: Need advise on neck turning
Here's my issue. When I am seating my bullets I feel a noticeable difference in the neck tension. I figure neck turning will eliminate this difference. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I am also using Hornady Cases, which are decent, but they are not Lapua. I'm trying to obtain the best possible results out of my brass. Besides, I dont have enough money to be bedind the rifle as much as I would like, so this is a way to satisfy my urge to shoot.
Here's my issue. When I am seating my bullets I feel a noticeable difference in the neck tension. I figure neck turning will eliminate this difference. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I am also using Hornady Cases, which are decent, but they are not Lapua. I'm trying to obtain the best possible results out of my brass. Besides, I dont have enough money to be bedind the rifle as much as I would like, so this is a way to satisfy my urge to shoot.
Re: Need advise on neck turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mean to offend you but neck-turning is a complete waste of time! Take a guy who spends time on the trigger and one who spends time turning down necks and the trigger-presser will shoot better groups all day everday. </div></div>
You don't shoot much competition with a rifle do you?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mean to offend you but neck-turning is a complete waste of time! Take a guy who spends time on the trigger and one who spends time turning down necks and the trigger-presser will shoot better groups all day everday. </div></div>
You don't shoot much competition with a rifle do you?
Re: Need advise on neck turning
How many times has the brass in question been fired? If it's more than 2 to 5 X the cases may need to be annealed. After brass has been loaded and fired several times the case necks loose some of their "springiness". This will cause differences in the neck tension that holds the bullet in place. I wouldn't turn the necks shooting in a factory chamber unless I was shooting it in some kind of match.
How many times has the brass in question been fired? If it's more than 2 to 5 X the cases may need to be annealed. After brass has been loaded and fired several times the case necks loose some of their "springiness". This will cause differences in the neck tension that holds the bullet in place. I wouldn't turn the necks shooting in a factory chamber unless I was shooting it in some kind of match.
Re: Need advise on neck turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mean to offend you but neck-turning is a complete waste of time! Take a guy who spends time on the trigger and one who spends time turning down necks and the trigger-presser will shoot better groups all day everday. </div></div>
You don't shoot much competition with a rifle do you? </div></div> + 1 There are time when it helps
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mean to offend you but neck-turning is a complete waste of time! Take a guy who spends time on the trigger and one who spends time turning down necks and the trigger-presser will shoot better groups all day everday. </div></div>
You don't shoot much competition with a rifle do you? </div></div> + 1 There are time when it helps
Re: Need advise on neck turning
unlees you have a gun with a tight neck. All you need to do is clean up the neck on your brass. Any of the tools your looking at will work. Just be sure you dont remove to much. Only clean them up
unlees you have a gun with a tight neck. All you need to do is clean up the neck on your brass. Any of the tools your looking at will work. Just be sure you dont remove to much. Only clean them up
Re: Need advise on neck turning
Its the thicker material at the base of the neck that you want to clean up. I usually wait till the 3rd or 4th firing, once most of the stretching and forming has occured.
Get the K&M turner with the donut cutter and their expander mandrel.
Its the thicker material at the base of the neck that you want to clean up. I usually wait till the 3rd or 4th firing, once most of the stretching and forming has occured.
Get the K&M turner with the donut cutter and their expander mandrel.
Re: Need advise on neck turning
Do you chamfer the inside case mouth before each loading? Using a die that does not overwork the case helps too (bushing or custom honed die). Annealing appears to have benefits but I think its lower down the list of possible issues that need checking. I turn necks on a .270 neck 243AI but not sure I would want to do it for a high volume rig.
Do you chamfer the inside case mouth before each loading? Using a die that does not overwork the case helps too (bushing or custom honed die). Annealing appears to have benefits but I think its lower down the list of possible issues that need checking. I turn necks on a .270 neck 243AI but not sure I would want to do it for a high volume rig.
Re: Need advise on neck turning
And, don't turn the whole neck circumference. As Nesikabay says, clean it up about 85-90%.
And, don't turn the whole neck circumference. As Nesikabay says, clean it up about 85-90%.
Re: Need advise on neck turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mean to offend you but neck-turning is a complete waste of time! Take a guy who spends time on the trigger and one who spends time turning down necks and the trigger-presser will shoot better groups all day everday. </div></div>
You don't shoot much competition with a rifle do you? </div></div>
Let me add a little substance to what I said. If you have a good rifle, scope, ammo...whatever you use for a rest as long as it's solid, then quality practice and record keeping is the best way to get better. QUALITY trigger time is THE best teacher. As long as you know what you're looking for.
But IF you are changing your load, brass, powder, primer or any other variable in the equation, you need to test it. And turning necks SOMETIMES comes into the areas of the best brass you can afford or make.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mean to offend you but neck-turning is a complete waste of time! Take a guy who spends time on the trigger and one who spends time turning down necks and the trigger-presser will shoot better groups all day everday. </div></div>
You don't shoot much competition with a rifle do you? </div></div>
Let me add a little substance to what I said. If you have a good rifle, scope, ammo...whatever you use for a rest as long as it's solid, then quality practice and record keeping is the best way to get better. QUALITY trigger time is THE best teacher. As long as you know what you're looking for.
But IF you are changing your load, brass, powder, primer or any other variable in the equation, you need to test it. And turning necks SOMETIMES comes into the areas of the best brass you can afford or make.
Re: Need advise on neck turning
To give you all a better idea of why I may be getting the different feel in neck tension here is a little more info.
I have settled on an excelent load for my .223( 22.7 grains of H322 topped with 75 grn A-Max). I am using an RCBS Gold Metal Match neck sizing die (.245) and their Gold Metal Match seating die. I have been able to get awesome results and then on other times I think they are sub par. Most of the time the sub par groups are due to verticle strings. I was thinking this may be caused by the inconsistant neck tension.
I know neck turning is not going to produce miracles. I just wanted to know if it would help, and tools others use and how they liked them. I don't want to throw money at this. Thanks for the info.
To give you all a better idea of why I may be getting the different feel in neck tension here is a little more info.
I have settled on an excelent load for my .223( 22.7 grains of H322 topped with 75 grn A-Max). I am using an RCBS Gold Metal Match neck sizing die (.245) and their Gold Metal Match seating die. I have been able to get awesome results and then on other times I think they are sub par. Most of the time the sub par groups are due to verticle strings. I was thinking this may be caused by the inconsistant neck tension.
I know neck turning is not going to produce miracles. I just wanted to know if it would help, and tools others use and how they liked them. I don't want to throw money at this. Thanks for the info.
Re: Need advise on neck turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many times has the brass in question been fired? If it's more than 2 to 5 X the cases may need to be annealed. After brass has been loaded and fired several times the case necks loose some of their "springiness". This will cause differences in the neck tension that holds the bullet in place. I wouldn't turn the necks shooting in a factory chamber unless I was shooting it in some kind of match. </div></div>
I ask again. How many times has the brass in question been fired?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many times has the brass in question been fired? If it's more than 2 to 5 X the cases may need to be annealed. After brass has been loaded and fired several times the case necks loose some of their "springiness". This will cause differences in the neck tension that holds the bullet in place. I wouldn't turn the necks shooting in a factory chamber unless I was shooting it in some kind of match. </div></div>
I ask again. How many times has the brass in question been fired?
Re: Need advise on neck turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mean to offend you but neck-turning is a complete waste of time!</div></div>
Really..............care to explain why?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mean to offend you but neck-turning is a complete waste of time!</div></div>
Really..............care to explain why?
Re: Need advise on neck turning
I have fired the brass quite a bit. I have also attempted annealing. The brass I'm working with has been fired 2x since annealing.
I do not have an annealing machine, for now I am placing the brass into a cordless drill and let them spin in the flame for approx. 4-5 seconds. I did notice that the force needed to seat the bullets did get easier. I know I need to get a more precise method of annealing. Which is another thread all together.
I have fired the brass quite a bit. I have also attempted annealing. The brass I'm working with has been fired 2x since annealing.
I do not have an annealing machine, for now I am placing the brass into a cordless drill and let them spin in the flame for approx. 4-5 seconds. I did notice that the force needed to seat the bullets did get easier. I know I need to get a more precise method of annealing. Which is another thread all together.
Re: Need advise on neck turning
Have you checked down the neck at the shoulder junction for a "donut"? I use a machine reamer .002" smaller than the bullet diameter to remove them. I bought most of mine at MSC for $15 to $20 each.
When annealing you really need a temp stick or something to know what temp you are using.
Have you checked down the neck at the shoulder junction for a "donut"? I use a machine reamer .002" smaller than the bullet diameter to remove them. I bought most of mine at MSC for $15 to $20 each.
When annealing you really need a temp stick or something to know what temp you are using.
Re: Need advise on neck turning
I'm planning on getting into the neck turning. I need to look for some videos on the net of folks doing it to get a general idea of how it's done. From what i've read before it's a process that only really needs to be done once. Do it when the brass it new, or once fired, and then you shouldn't really need to do it again.
I don't have a bushing die right now, but it's on the list of things to get. Once I finally make the upgrade, i'll likely do the neck turning as well.
Branden
I'm planning on getting into the neck turning. I need to look for some videos on the net of folks doing it to get a general idea of how it's done. From what i've read before it's a process that only really needs to be done once. Do it when the brass it new, or once fired, and then you shouldn't really need to do it again.
I don't have a bushing die right now, but it's on the list of things to get. Once I finally make the upgrade, i'll likely do the neck turning as well.
Branden
Re: Need advise on neck turning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mean to offend you but neck-turning is a complete waste of time! Take a guy who spends time on the trigger and one who spends time turning down necks and the trigger-presser will shoot better groups all day everday. </div></div>
You don't shoot much competition with a rifle do you? </div></div>
Let me add a little substance to what I said. If you have a good rifle, scope, ammo...whatever you use for a rest as long as it's solid, then quality practice and record keeping is the best way to get better. QUALITY trigger time is THE best teacher. As long as you know what you're looking for.
But IF you are changing your load, brass, powder, primer or any other variable in the equation, you need to test it. And turning necks SOMETIMES comes into the areas of the best brass you can afford or make. </div></div> Victor your right neck turning wont help as much as the things you mentioned. Neck turning wont make a bad load shoot. But sometimes NOT ALL when you have your load and everything else right it can help. But if its not a tight neck gun it wont help enough to make all the work worth the time. BUT ON A SIDE NOTE IT CANT HURT IF DONE RIGHT
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mean to offend you but neck-turning is a complete waste of time! Take a guy who spends time on the trigger and one who spends time turning down necks and the trigger-presser will shoot better groups all day everday. </div></div>
You don't shoot much competition with a rifle do you? </div></div>
Let me add a little substance to what I said. If you have a good rifle, scope, ammo...whatever you use for a rest as long as it's solid, then quality practice and record keeping is the best way to get better. QUALITY trigger time is THE best teacher. As long as you know what you're looking for.
But IF you are changing your load, brass, powder, primer or any other variable in the equation, you need to test it. And turning necks SOMETIMES comes into the areas of the best brass you can afford or make. </div></div> Victor your right neck turning wont help as much as the things you mentioned. Neck turning wont make a bad load shoot. But sometimes NOT ALL when you have your load and everything else right it can help. But if its not a tight neck gun it wont help enough to make all the work worth the time. BUT ON A SIDE NOTE IT CANT HURT IF DONE RIGHT
Re: Need advise on neck turning
I like K&M's tool. I have found that it is easiest to turn new brass. Once it is fired, brass hardens and it is difficult to get a snug fit on the mandrel. Either it's too loose or too tight, and no two cases are alike. It is a giant pain in the ass.
Remington has the softest necks and is easiest to work with.
I like K&M's tool. I have found that it is easiest to turn new brass. Once it is fired, brass hardens and it is difficult to get a snug fit on the mandrel. Either it's too loose or too tight, and no two cases are alike. It is a giant pain in the ass.
Remington has the softest necks and is easiest to work with.
Re: Need advise on neck turning
Just anneal it first. I find them to be more uniform after forming to my chamber and since most of the stretching and flowing has already occurred, you have less chance of getting a donut. Trimming with the Giraud also helps since it indexes off of the shoulder. If you're trimming is based on OAL of the case, then you are fighting that tolerance on top of your shoulder bump tolerance.
Just anneal it first. I find them to be more uniform after forming to my chamber and since most of the stretching and flowing has already occurred, you have less chance of getting a donut. Trimming with the Giraud also helps since it indexes off of the shoulder. If you're trimming is based on OAL of the case, then you are fighting that tolerance on top of your shoulder bump tolerance.
