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need help from exsperienced AR shooters!!

jollyrancher

jollyrancher

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 5, 2009
102
0
40
DFW, Texas
#1
i have a Rock River Arms Tactical Car A4 16" Chrome Molly 1:9 twist heavy barrell. RRA Two Stage trigger all stock Acog TA31F 4x32. i started with 55 grain lake city, then ran out and started using 55 grain American Eagle. my quetion is what kind of groups should i exspect from this gun both weere shot free hand from a bench 90 degree weather windage 5mph from right to left. whats your best at 100 yards 200 yards? i shot this weekend and i just feel terrible about my shooting. im not sure if i should exspect a lot more from my rifle or if what i shot is as good as it gets. kinda embarrassed to even post the pics but heres 50 yard target, then 8" target at 100 yards. i know there are a lot of factors in the way this turned out like the fact that i didnt clean my gun from last time i shot, and it looks like i was pulling to the left, the fact that i changed ammo. im going to go back this week and see if anything has change. any suggestions are appreciated, quetions are welcome too. i will post more pics later
IMG_0040.jpg
 
#3
Re: need help from exsperienced AR shooters!!

the little guy above the nine was my first shot, then i adjusted. others to the left of the bullseye. one more adjustment then i left it alone
 
#4
Re: need help from exsperienced AR shooters!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">both weere shot free hand from a bench </div></div>

i would say you done pretty well on the first target, as for the second target, that too is pretty good for "free hand", the only way to find out if it can group better is to have the rifle rock solid in a "vise" like steady rest. try that and post the photos of the results OK ?
 
#6
Re: need help from exsperienced AR shooters!!

it is also hard to determine what you did at a 100. In other words did you shoot quickly or take your time but the one thing to get into mind with an AR is if a man sized target was there could it hit him in the chest. The answer is yes. An AR is not a precise weapon the way you have it set-up. It is a battle rifle set-up to put maximum lead down range to hit a man or animal. You are using a stock AR with stock ammo so you are not going to shoot 1 MOA. If you want to get the most out an AR you are going to have to thrown some money at it. It can be done but you have to ask yourself what is the point of your shooting -precision or just shooting. If it is precision than I think you need to get an AR with match components - IMHO
 
#7
Re: need help from exsperienced AR shooters!!

You didn't say what kind of experience you have shooting, but if your new, don't feel bad as that isn't too bad of a start. I've definitely seen a lot worse.

First off, your zero appears to be riding left, so you might be best served with an adjustment to the right. That isn't a shift from the wind you're seeing, that is your zero. Either that or your natural point of aim is off.

Secondly, with that rifle and scope setup, and with that ammunition, you can expect anywhere from 2-4+ MOA performance. Maybe down to close to 1 MOA if your rifle really likes that ammo for some reason, but quite frankly the FMJ stuff you're shooting isn't built for high accuracy, it's built for high volume.

Pick up a variety of different match ammo and see what the rifle likes. I suggest some 68gr with that twist, but some 1:9's like even the 77gr stuff too. Some better ammunition will get your groups a lot smaller, and with ammo you get what you pay for.

Get off the bench and get on the ground with a good prone position and loop sling. That right there will tighten up your group. Another option is either use a bipod or a rest and use your non-firing hand on the rear of the butt stock for elevation control. Get your entire body weight absorbing the recoil right, not just your shoulder.

Finally, just because the rifle will shoot fast doesn't mean you have to. Stay slow on that trigger and make sure you're feeling the reset after each shot. AR's are brutal on shooters with poor follow through, and if you don't continue all the fundamentals for a couple seconds after the shot, in a bit of exaggeration of your follow through, you'll get sloppy and so will your group.

I'm not even going to get into your rifle maintenance, as there's enough threads discussing that as it is. I'll just say that isn't the reason for the loose group.

Keep shooting, improve your technique and ammo, and you'll see a lot tighter groups in your future.
 
#8
Re: need help from exsperienced AR shooters!!

thanks fellas, theres definitely some changes to be made, gonna try and repost any type of progress or results within the next couple of months
smile.gif
start from the foundation then build my way up
 
#15
Re: need help from exsperienced AR shooters!!

I'm of the opinion one should learn to shoot the AR with irons prior to moving to glass.

First get a good position, which means your head is resting "it's total weight" on the stock to get and keep a good sight picture. As far as natural point of aim, windage is adjusted by shifting the body, elevation is adjusted by moving your non-shooting hand up and down the stock. The head should be as erect as possible. Bring the rifle to the head, not the other way around. Such a position will allow you to follow through and get you ready for the next shot. The elbow of the non shooting arm should be directly under the rifle which should keep you from drifting off to the left (if right handed).

I would highly recommending you go to the CMP Bookstore and purchase a copy of the USAMU Service Rifle guide (best $6.95 investment you can make in the shooting game).

The sight group of the OP looks to me to be a position problem more then anything else but its hard to say without actually watching you shoot.

The below target was shot at 100 yards on the 600 yard reduced target, from the Sitting Position (Sling), using 53 grn hornady bullets out of a White Oak 1 in 7. Twist at 100 yards isnt that critical. Nor is the wind. At 100 yards if the wind is a factor then its probably blowing you out of position.



GEDC2291.JPG
 
#16
Re: need help from exsperienced AR shooters!!

I'll hand you the nickname 'shotgun'.
Your rifle is capable of 1MOA - 2MOA groups. If you have properly zeroed it and it is reliable then the large open groups are YOU.
Find a good book on the basic fundamentals and work on them, first from prone supported, then from kneeling, and use a good sling that isn't too tight on the rifle and moves the action/lower when you use it. You will find your groups get smaller with good fundamentals and practice.
Did I say,"Get off the bench!"?
 
#17
Re: need help from exsperienced AR shooters!!

i already have a nick name thanks <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jollyrancher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They call me Jolly Rancher cause you can suck me for a long time oh my lord! song by DL4

jollyrancher.jpg
</div></div>
 
#20
Re: need help from exsperienced AR shooters!!

-Shoot proned out for groups if you aren't going to vice your weapon.
-FF your barrel & I also recommend the DD Light 12.0
-Try different ammunition out, but bear in mind you have a 1/9, so don't get carried away trying heavy bullets
-Learn your holds, because your 200yd sill. is ehhh, little high and wide
grin.gif

-Realize that you are shooting a battle rifle and not a PR. I believe the standard for a rack grade M4 is 2-4moa or some shit like that.
-What range did you zero your ACOG at?
-PRACTICE dry firing...for every shot you think you yanked....do 3 good slow dry-fires immediately after to address the mistake immediately and correct it with good input.
-Without knowing what kind of previous trng you've had...some of it could be sight-alignment, trigger control, breathing, body position, coming off the glass and getting back on it in a different position because your cheek-weld sucks, follow through, shitty ammo, or a bazillion other factors.
*I rest my mag on the ground and also use my elbows to form a "tripod" of sorts when I shoot despite the, "AHHHH GET YOUR MAG OFF THE GROUND CROWD".

You may want to entertain picking up a CMMG .22 conversion for trng....shooting your bangstick with that at 50yds should tell you quite a bit about habits, etc.
 
#21
Re: need help from exsperienced AR shooters!!

on my silhouette i was actually aiming for the nose and eye area not center mass, my bro comes back from AFGH in January and he said he would do a one on one with me. so hopefully he can spot the problem and i can fix it, going to keep a progress on here kinda a before and after
smile.gif
 
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