Rifle Scopes Need help zeroing Steiner M5Xi 5-25, can't move elevation down.

[squatumd]

I am having problems coming down enough to zero a Steiner M5Xi 5-25. I had no problem zeroing this scope when I first mounted it on my Remington, and slipping the turret / setting the zero stop. I just swapped stocks to a MPA chassis, and the zero shifted up ~0.5 mils. When trying to adjust down, I can't click, even when first slipping the turrets up 0.5 or even a full mil, it's just stuck there.

I'd hate to think I've mechanically bottomed out (and coincidentally at the exact place that the rifle zeroed previously). I have the scope mounted in a Spuhr 20 MOA mount on a 20 MOA rail for a total of 40 MOA of cant, less than the 45 MOA recommended by Steiner. I'm wondering if at some point in the process I bunged up something internally by tightening the set screw down at the wrong time, or not lifting the turret up enough per the instructions in the manual. At one point I think I might have forced the turret below the zero stop in frustration, once again, hopefully not bunging up anything.

With 3 matches coming up in the next 2 months I'm getting a bit nervous (not to mention I can't practice effectively at 100 yards without holding under), any help is appreciated.

 

[digrazir]

If you want to lower your point of impact say 3 mills. Loosen your turrets and go to the 3 mill mark on your elevation turret. Tighten your turret back down and bring turret back down to zero. Your point of impact should have dropped 3 mills. Hopefully you didn't break anything when trying to force your turret down past the zero stop. Ray

 

[squatumd]

Thanks for your response. I understand what you are recommending, it's what I've done to zero previously. For some reason though, I can't move down at all from my current setting. I can move up 0.9 mils PAST the 26 mil point, which jives with the total travel that Cal Zant reports in his review of the Steiner mechanical range (26.9 above + 0.2 below zero = 27.1 mils)

I'm 0.5 mil high, so I should be able to loosen the set screws, move the turret to 0.5, tighten them, viola - zeroed. Except what I get is the turret stuck at 0.5 mil. Thought that maybe I missed a beat, so went further up to 1.0 mil, same result, turret is stuck here. Afraid I might be bottomed in elevation travel, but if so I'd like to have a little conversation with the folks at Steiner for recommending a 45 MOA mount /base combo.

At this point I'm wondering if there's something in the turret that I somehow 'scooched' so that I can't lower it further than it's at now, or if I'm just bottomed. really don't want to be swapping mounts or bases at this point on this project, and REALLY don't want to be doing it when this optic goes onto a Tempest build in a couple of months.

 

[digrazir]

Thanks for your response. I understand what you are recommending, it's what I've done to zero previously. For some reason though, I can't move down at all from my current setting. I can move up 0.9 mils PAST the 26 mil point, which jives with the total travel that Cal Zant reports in his review of the Steiner mechanical range (26.9 above + 0.2 below zero = 27.1 mils)

I'm 0.5 mil high, so I should be able to loosen the set screws, move the turret to 0.5, tighten them, viola - zeroed. Except what I get is the turret stuck at 0.5 mil. Thought that maybe I missed a beat, so went further up to 1.0 mil, same result, turret is stuck here. Afraid I might be bottomed in elevation travel, but if so I'd like to have a little conversation with the folks at Steiner for recommending a 45 MOA mount /base combo.

At this point I'm wondering if there's something in the turret that I somehow 'scooched' so that I can't lower it further than it's at now, or if I'm just bottomed. really don't want to be swapping mounts or bases at this point on this project, and REALLY don't want to be doing it when this optic goes onto a Tempest build in a couple of months.

I believe it is a bad idea to use an elevated base and an elevated scope mount together. With your scope 20 moa or possibly 30 moa total elevation is plenty..You never want to do most of your shooting at the extreme end, one way or the other of your scope..that said I see guys do it all the time..Ray

 

[black max]

I had the same scope mounted on a 30moa defiance rail in an sphur sp4106 which is 20moa. It's a non issue, you must have messed something up. Like you said, the scopes are designed to be used with 45moa.

 

[squatumd]

I'll be calling Steiner tomorrow, hopefully there will be a simple DIY fix, no time to pull it and have it make a round trip.

 

[Darklefthand]

26 mils divided by two equals 13. That set up with 40 MOA is equivalent to 11.63 mils, which would put you very close to the max adjustment. I imagine you set your zero stop with your last rifle, which probably cut into some of the adjustment, likely accounting for that extra 1.37 mils. Doesn't it make sense that you are very close to the erectors mechanical floor?

 

[squatumd]

The odd thing though is that before I headed to the range, I was actually dialed to ~1.5 mils elevation, and just slipped the turrets before heading to the range to re-zero after swapping stocks. At a minimum you'd think I'd have at least that much to play with still, but appears to have 'disappeared'. I understand that I'd be closer than not to the mechanical bottom of travel, but there's sufficient evidence that something else is going on here.

 

[digrazir]

Twenty mills is plenty of elevation to get out to 1500 yards with most decent running 6mm and 6.5mms..easily accomplished with a 20 moa base. I just can't see pushing the extreme end of elevation of your scope when you will rarely or probably never need it...Ray

 

[squatumd]

Spoke with Steiner on the phone. Unfortunately I don't have the optic in front of me, but was eager to get an idea about what I'm dealing with. Apparently I actually might be at the bottom on the mechanical range of the optic, having the full range of adjustment available to me on the turret. I'm a bit disappointed that I took their recommendation of a 45 MOA base mount (20 MOA base + 20 MOA Spuhr mount) and then ran into this issue. Still confused as to how I was zeroed three weeks back with room to spare in both directions, and now can't zero with the same load, rifle, and optic setup with just a chassis swap. I REALLY hope I didn't do any damage to any internals by bumping against the limits when attempting to adjust down that last few 10ths.

 

[Thumper580]

Darklefthand nailed it...

 

[Darklefthand]

Have you checked to make sure your scope can perform the entire 26 mils of advertised adjustment? If it can, the answer is simple, and that 40 MOA of cant plus whatever your rifle/barrel alignment are just doesn't jive. If you don't have the full 26 mils, then something is definitely wrong with the scope, mechanically.

 

[black max]

I zeroed the same same scope yesterday and it is mounted in a 45moa AI mount on an ar308. I have 26.9 mils of up travel after my 100 yd zero.

 

[squatumd]

black max - now that's what I was hoping to see. I spoke with a very helpful gentleman this morning at Steiner, and he explained how the internals are set, and then depending on the German that assembled the thing, some adjust to optical center, some to mechanical center, so there's some variation on the internal adjustment range compared to the turrets. You can jog this a bit by clicking the adjustment post with the cap off (gripping the thing is the trick here, the ideal tool would be a ring with a few set screws to grip the same as the set screws on the turret, but without engaging the turret) and gain some travel in the desired direction. Gave it 4 clicks to test the concept, and marked the post with a sharpie so I can return to the 'factory' setting. At this point it's as much intellectual curiosity as anything, as the Steiner (Burris) tech assured me that if anything was bunged up I could send it in for repair or replacement.

 

[Darklefthand]

Ok, well now I'm curious.. Blackmaxx, how can you have 26.9 mils of travel on a scope that specifies it has 26 mils of elevation range? I'm not questioning your assertion, just wondering what am I missing here?

 

[squatumd]

I believe there's some mechanical adjustment / travel beyond the adjustment range in the turrets, according to the Steiner tech that I spoke with at length. Even on the turrets you get 0.2 mil below zero, and 0.9 mils above the 26.0 mil hash. In Cal Zant's big scope test he puts out there that the Steiner has 27.1 mils of travel, and it may be more than that actually, but I'm not sure how much more.

 

[Darklefthand]

Ok, well that makes sense. So is it common that scopes have a little more or a little less than their actual spec'd overall elevation adjustment? Is that the norm? Or is it more likely a scope will have exactly 260 clicks(.1 mil), when a manufacturer lists their elevation range as being 26 mil?

 

[squatumd]

So I'm confident at this point that I'm bottomed out, but I'm also suspicious that I received a scope that, for whatever reason, has tolerances that are overly biased towards the bottom of the travel, based on the experiences of black max and of my shooting buddy with the same setup. I'm going to send the scope back to Steiner and have the gentleman that I spoke with give it a good going over. Seems worth the expense of shipping and a bit of time for such an expensive piece of glass. Does this make sense?

 

[digrazir]

So I'm confident at this point that I'm bottomed out, but I'm also suspicious that I received a scope that, for whatever reason, has tolerances that are overly biased towards the bottom of the travel, based on the experiences of black max and of my shooting buddy with the same setup. I'm going to send the scope back to Steiner and have the gentleman that I spoke with give it a good going over. Seems worth the expense of shipping and a bit of time for such an expensive piece of glass. Does this make sense?

I can understand sending the scope back for your own piece of mind. I don't understand the need to maximize upward travel to that degree unless most of your shooting is at a mile plus. Ray

 

[black max]

So I'm confident at this point that I'm bottomed out, but I'm also suspicious that I received a scope that, for whatever reason, has tolerances that are overly biased towards the bottom of the travel, based on the experiences of black max and of my shooting buddy with the same setup. I'm going to send the scope back to Steiner and have the gentleman that I spoke with give it a good going over. Seems worth the expense of shipping and a bit of time for such an expensive piece of glass. Does this make sense?

Good idea on sending it in to Steiner for a checkup, I would not mess with it myself. I also had a 3-15 that would go to 27.1 or .2 (don't recall), I wish I still had that one...

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Just another opinion here take it as you wish. This isn't brain surgery................. With the turret bottomed out rotate the elevation up and if you can go the full 26 mils you have used all the elevation left in the optic. If you can't go up the full 26, then you have the zero stop set incorrectly or have another problem with the internals (doubtful.) If you do have all 26 mils available then you'll have to gain more elevation in your base. Shoot at 100 yds. measure the distance between POI and POA and then divide by 1.047 and you'll have the additional MOA needed to zero. Of course, that will be at the extreme end of erector travel so you might want to add some depending. So for example, if the distance is 5 1/4 (5.25) inches high divide my 1.47 and you'll have the bare minimum needed additional MOA in your mount/base (3.57 MOA.) So, in this example I would obtain a 25 MOA base to go with that expensive 20 MOA Spuhr or trade your 20 MOA Spuhr for a 0 and buy a 45 MOA base. What you are experiencing is not that uncommon.