Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

[Bangaboom]

Hi Guys,
I am planning to buy a Garand M1C sniper rifle from CMP. Does anyone know or think that since this is a older version of the sniper rifle... will it already be drilled and taped for mounting a M81, 82, or 84 Scope mount??? I need your experience and or opinions concerning this issue before I commit. I want the M1C as it should have more historical history vs the M1D. I do plan to shoot The M1C and possibly compete in matches. Thanks for your help.

Dan G.

 

[no1special]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

it will be drilled and tapped for a griffin& howe detachable mount. 3 holes tapped and 2 holes for alignment dowel pins all in a line on the receiver.

 

[Bangaboom]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

Tru,

Thanks...Do You or anyone else know where i could find a griffin & howe detachable mount for a M1C sniper rifle at a reasonable price? Thanks

Dan G.

 

[Kells81]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

reasonable price might be the issue.... You might be able to find a repro for a fair price but as its not a common item even a repro will be expensive.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

I think the C's that the CMP is selling still have the "base" screwed and staked to the receiver. The G&H mounts are tough to come by and pricey. Real G&H serialed C mounts run around $800 in some of the ads I have seen.

The CMP Want To Buy Forum or the Culvers Shooting Page Want To Buy Forum may get you in tuch with an enthusiast willing to sell the G&H mount that is not as predatory as a Gun Broker auctioneer.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

Just recalled. If you do a search on the CMP forum there is a vendor selling a G&H repro. I dont think its exact and the purists had some issues with it but I think it was in the $4-500 range.

I'll take a look for it and return with a link If I can find it.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

Tarheel Ordnance repro MC-1 mount (Marine Corps version of M1-C)

http://www.tarheelordnance.com/store/page3.html

 

[FlightRN]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

The M1C&D rifles are a fascinating history. Original parts are becoming very expensive. Finding all the parts and pieces can be interesting. Unfortunately,scopes and mounts can run $2-3K for average examples these days. Reproductions are available so those on a budget are helped. Additionally, using a repo scope alleviates the fear of ruining an original scope.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FlightRN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Unfortunately,scopes and mounts can run $2-3K for average examples these days. </div></div>

Those prices seem high....

Check M84 or M82 on the auction site starting with "E" and ending with "y"....originals start around $750 and none are over $1000 (even the Buy it Now ones). Mounts are around $200-400.

I regularly shoot 2 x WW2 vintage Zeiss Zf39, a Soviet PEM dated 1938, a '44 dated No32 MkIII and an original USMC Unertl x8....these old scopes are all fully functional and can be used without problem as long as you treat them with some respect.

Just make sure that if you buy one it is fully functional, no mould/fungus in the tube, cracked.scratched lenses, missing parts etc.

I hear what you are saying about the "risk" of damage but There are guys who can service and maintain these older scopes to keep them in top shape if you take the time to look around.

I would think twice about regualrly using a certified/original/rare/valuable precision rifle combo - no matter what nationality.

A project rifle using authentic parts is a great alternative and one which lessens the risk of losing a piece of genuine history.

 

[FlightRN]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

Good Day,
I believe your numbers are referencing M-84 scopes in specifically.

Reproduction M82 scopes are $5-600 (I could have bought one at the NRA show for $440) There is an original M82 scope with a <span style="text-decoration: underline">scrubbed</span> tube for $950 on ePay. Reproduction M1C mounts are around $350-400 from the same source. Original (USGI) G&H mounts are running $800+.

If you start to get into the Kollmorgen scopes, they are easily running +$2K for the scope alone. Original G&H mounts are $1K+

There are places that can repair the older scopes but unfortunately they are becoming fewer and fewer. I recently had a poor outcome with someone that was recommended and now I'm hoping that I can salvage the scope.

Shooting original scope is great fun but again, for those on a budget, finding someone who is really qualified to fix them can be interesting. Currently there are individuals who are exceptional qualified to repair such scopes like the No32 (i.e. Laidler) but their numbers are getting smaller and smaller. Its just something to consider.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

I guess the better the condition or more collectable the item, the higher the seller will price it. The point is that there are alternatives to paying $2-3K for a collector grade top-of-the-tree variant or buying a less than ideal repro.

I've never heard of anyone give unconditional praise to any of the Weaver, Unertl, Zeiss, PEM, No32 scope repros. The normal reaction is that they are OK "for the money"....usually qualified by further comments on lenses, tolerances, return to zero issues, click value inaccuracies, general quality.

I do see a lot of blokes competing with original, perfectly servicable (but arguable less desirable from a collector's point-of-view?) No32 Mk1 and Mk 2, lesser known German manufacturer's x4 scopes from the interwar years etc.

Maybe getting the older stuff (especially European scopes?) fixed in the US is a tougher proposition than it is here.

Peter does great work but he tells me that it is getting tougher to find parts for the No32 - this can be an expensive solution if you have no alternative but to contact him through BDL or Fultons.....

I know of several good guys on the older German scopes - Robert Spielauer in Austria in particular in my experience.

On the Unertl, Parsons seem to be the company most recommend and Richard and Mike are very helpful...but I have been warned about their lead times which may put some off.

My approach has always been - buy these old scopes now whilst they can still be found, get the best you can, get them serviced whilst the parts, guys and knowledge to do it are still available and look after them....but USE them for what they are designed for.

PS....you've posted some great pics of your collection. Thanks for that...you are a very lucky man!

 

[Daniel Hall]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

You could try Griffin And Howe. They make a mount with 1" rings. I believe it is not the same as originally used. It is a reasonable way to get started.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KraigWY has often said he has time with this rifle system while in the ANG if memoery serves.

I'm surprised he hasn't offered some insight. </div></div>

Yeah I ran several sniper schools for the Alaska National Guard using the M1C/Ds but I don’t know much about the after market scopes/mounts except what I get form the CMP Forums. That would be the place to go.

We had 5 BNs, and each was suppose to have 12 snipers, but they averaged about 18-24. We had a surplus of rifles plus I had a supply of scopes/mounts and other parts to keep them going.
After we got the M21s the rifles were turned in (probably what you see from CMP now. The other scopes /mounts/parts were turned in as junk. (Wished I’d kept them now, they weren’t on my property books)

Anyway, about the C vs D. The C was originally converted M1s. They took a good quality M1 and mounted the G&H mount. The Ds were built from the “get go” as sniper rifles.

In reality, accuracy wise, there is no difference between the two. Both worked quite well. Sure there was exceptions, some didn’t shoot worth a hoot, some were outstanding, but that occurred in both rifles, not one or the other.

If you learn to shoot the M1s they are outstanding. With the ball ammo you sighted them in at 50 yards, they were good to 900. The 50 yard marks on the M-84 scopes were quite consistent. We used mostly M-72 (’06 match). It shot a tad different but you had to have an exceptional shooter to tell the difference.

With either, It was not difficult to keep the rounds on the E-Silhouette to 900 yards.
If you get a good tight rifle, (don’t matter if it’s a C or D except D’s from CMP are cheaper) and a good mount/scope, these rifles are more then capable of cleaning the 300 & 600 yard targets used in the CMP Vintage Sniper Matches.

 

[Brock Golson]

Re: Need input for a Garand M1C Sniper Rifle

Holy crap! Nice pics of an awesome collection of M1 sniper rifles.