I'm fairly new to the precision marksmanship community and need opinions from more experienced marksmen. I'm looking to put an optic on my GAP crusader that will be capable of handling both LE call outs and competitions geared toward sharpening job related skills. The largest field of veiw possible would help for duty situations, but it would be nice to have a higher than 10x magnification for the competitions. So far, the newest generation IOR seems to look the best on paper, but like I said, I'm new......anyone?
Rifle Scopes Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
- Thread starter servo
- Start date
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
US Optics
Nightforce
Vortex
S&B
Long story short. Get behind as many as you can and decide for yourself.
US Optics
Nightforce
Vortex
S&B
Long story short. Get behind as many as you can and decide for yourself.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
I vote SN3 - 3.2-17x44 - but im a USO Junky so my view is biased for sure.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">US Optics
Nightforce
Vortex
S&B
</div></div>
Toss in Premier and everything is pretty much covered. Not saying the IOR is a bad scope, but they don't have the track record. Vortex is kinda in the same boat as they are relative newcomers to the game. Im not a Leupold fan but LE units/departments have been using them for years. The new FFP Mark 4 seems to be getting good reviews so I wouldn't count that out. Of the scopes listed I have only used Leupold/S&B/USO/Nightforce myself. In high end optics you get what you pay for.
I vote SN3 - 3.2-17x44 - but im a USO Junky so my view is biased for sure.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">US Optics
Nightforce
Vortex
S&B
</div></div>
Toss in Premier and everything is pretty much covered. Not saying the IOR is a bad scope, but they don't have the track record. Vortex is kinda in the same boat as they are relative newcomers to the game. Im not a Leupold fan but LE units/departments have been using them for years. The new FFP Mark 4 seems to be getting good reviews so I wouldn't count that out. Of the scopes listed I have only used Leupold/S&B/USO/Nightforce myself. In high end optics you get what you pay for.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
Should you decide that more than 10x is necessary...
I've *heard* very good things about the S&B and the Premier, but have never owned one, so I can't really comment. I do own a Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50. This is the only optic I've ever owned that I can honestly say I would not hesitate to trust my life to. This thing is built like a battle tank and it's controls reek of precision and durability. Watch LL's video of what he did to it.
It's a little heavy and the eye placement pickiness makes me a little crazy sometimes (but i have no parallax issues.
) , but I recently got to fondle one of the new IOR's side-by-side and there is NO comparison in build quality and confidence inspired by feel. The IOR reminded me of a really expensive Falcon Menace with great glass and better knobs. (Sorry in advance to the IOR owners. Callin' 'em as I see's 'em)
The Razor tracks perfectly and repeatably. Great reticle and a LOT more affordable than the S&B and Premier. Call Scott @ Liberty Optics for a price.
PM LoneWolfUSMC. I know he's currently doing a T&E on one for his dept. He'll give you the straight up.
.02
John
Should you decide that more than 10x is necessary...
I've *heard* very good things about the S&B and the Premier, but have never owned one, so I can't really comment. I do own a Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50. This is the only optic I've ever owned that I can honestly say I would not hesitate to trust my life to. This thing is built like a battle tank and it's controls reek of precision and durability. Watch LL's video of what he did to it.
It's a little heavy and the eye placement pickiness makes me a little crazy sometimes (but i have no parallax issues.
The Razor tracks perfectly and repeatably. Great reticle and a LOT more affordable than the S&B and Premier. Call Scott @ Liberty Optics for a price.
PM LoneWolfUSMC. I know he's currently doing a T&E on one for his dept. He'll give you the straight up.
.02
John
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: O2thief</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the S&B 1-8x on the market yet? I was looking for it and saw that it might have been having some problems, thus delaying release.</div></div>
No it's not. There weren't any problems but they did do a small redesign which improved the scope but delayed release. Prototypes should be out in the next few weeks and then production models should be coming into the states after that.
What is your budget for the scope? That will help alot with recommendations as there's no reason to recommend $2000+ optics if your budget is $1000.
For specs from what you mentioned so far I would go 3.5-15x/4-16x, matching knobs and reticle, and illuminated reticle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: O2thief</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the S&B 1-8x on the market yet? I was looking for it and saw that it might have been having some problems, thus delaying release.</div></div>
No it's not. There weren't any problems but they did do a small redesign which improved the scope but delayed release. Prototypes should be out in the next few weeks and then production models should be coming into the states after that.
What is your budget for the scope? That will help alot with recommendations as there's no reason to recommend $2000+ optics if your budget is $1000.
For specs from what you mentioned so far I would go 3.5-15x/4-16x, matching knobs and reticle, and illuminated reticle.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
I am saving my quarters for the new S&B PMII 3-20, plenty of low magnification for close engagement and 20X for the 1000yds F class is more than enough IMO
hope this helps.
I am saving my quarters for the new S&B PMII 3-20, plenty of low magnification for close engagement and 20X for the 1000yds F class is more than enough IMO
hope this helps.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
IOR 3-18x42.
It is an awesome piece of kit.
I say that because that is what I run, therefore, it must be true.
IOR 3-18x42.
It is an awesome piece of kit.
I say that because that is what I run, therefore, it must be true.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
Many vendors (incl USO) have LE pricing. PM Doc76251 for details. Don't assume you can't afford top glass... because many vendors and dealers give Great support to LE.
I run a 5 x 25 USO T-Pal, which is a little more glass than I need for my duty rifle. But it is such a great piece of gear...
I also second Sapper and Winny on the 3.2-17 USO. And you can find used deals on the PX.
If you want to start with something lower cost before moving up, don't disregard the Leup Mark 4 6.5-25 LR/T with TMR reticle. I started with one of those when I first got my M/O slot and it's a good unit. I'd still be shooting it had it not been for demo'ing a T-Pal at a school this spring.
Cheers, Sirhr
Many vendors (incl USO) have LE pricing. PM Doc76251 for details. Don't assume you can't afford top glass... because many vendors and dealers give Great support to LE.
I run a 5 x 25 USO T-Pal, which is a little more glass than I need for my duty rifle. But it is such a great piece of gear...
I also second Sapper and Winny on the 3.2-17 USO. And you can find used deals on the PX.
If you want to start with something lower cost before moving up, don't disregard the Leup Mark 4 6.5-25 LR/T with TMR reticle. I started with one of those when I first got my M/O slot and it's a good unit. I'd still be shooting it had it not been for demo'ing a T-Pal at a school this spring.
Cheers, Sirhr
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
I like the IOR stuff, good reticles, knobs, glass but reliability is the main thing.
I think a nightforce 3-15 with all the goodies is your safest bet.
I like the IOR stuff, good reticles, knobs, glass but reliability is the main thing.
I think a nightforce 3-15 with all the goodies is your safest bet.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sapper524</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I vote SN3 - 3.2-17x44 - but im a USO Junky so my view is biased for sure.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">US Optics
Nightforce
Vortex
S&B
</div></div>
Toss in Premier and everything is pretty much covered. Not saying the IOR is a bad scope, but they don't have the track record. Vortex is kinda in the same boat as they are relative newcomers to the game. Im not a Leupold fan but LE units/departments have been using them for years. The new FFP Mark 4 seems to be getting good reviews so I wouldn't count that out. Of the scopes listed I have only used Leupold/S&B/USO/Nightforce myself. In high end optics you get what you pay for.
</div></div>
My bad......
PH works well also.
you really need to get behind them and drive them. See what works for you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sapper524</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I vote SN3 - 3.2-17x44 - but im a USO Junky so my view is biased for sure.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">US Optics
Nightforce
Vortex
S&B
</div></div>
Toss in Premier and everything is pretty much covered. Not saying the IOR is a bad scope, but they don't have the track record. Vortex is kinda in the same boat as they are relative newcomers to the game. Im not a Leupold fan but LE units/departments have been using them for years. The new FFP Mark 4 seems to be getting good reviews so I wouldn't count that out. Of the scopes listed I have only used Leupold/S&B/USO/Nightforce myself. In high end optics you get what you pay for.
</div></div>
My bad......
PH works well also.
you really need to get behind them and drive them. See what works for you.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
+1 for NF 3.5-15, proven reliability and not "too" expensive
+1 for NF 3.5-15, proven reliability and not "too" expensive
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageStag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 for NF 3.5-15, proven reliability and not "too" expensive </div></div>
FFP or SFP?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageStag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 for NF 3.5-15, proven reliability and not "too" expensive </div></div>
FFP or SFP?
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competi
SFP, and by "too" I meant not very expensive. I wasn't saying the others aren't worth the money.
SFP, and by "too" I meant not very expensive. I wasn't saying the others aren't worth the money.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageStag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SFP, and by "too" I meant not very expensive. I wasn't saying the others aren't worth the money. </div></div>
that is a big cost you need to sort out. FFP or SFP.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageStag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SFP, and by "too" I meant not very expensive. I wasn't saying the others aren't worth the money. </div></div>
that is a big cost you need to sort out. FFP or SFP.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageStag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SFP, and by "too" I meant not very expensive. I wasn't saying the others aren't worth the money. </div></div>
that is a big cost you need to sort out. FFP or SFP. </div></div>
I guess I don't understand what your getting at.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageStag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SFP, and by "too" I meant not very expensive. I wasn't saying the others aren't worth the money. </div></div>
that is a big cost you need to sort out. FFP or SFP. </div></div>
I guess I don't understand what your getting at.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: O2thief</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm fairly new to the precision marksmanship community and need opinions from more experienced marksmen. I'm looking to put an optic on my GAP crusader that will be capable of handling both LE call outs and competitions geared toward sharpening job related skills. The largest field of veiw possible would help for duty situations, but it would be nice to have a higher than 10x magnification for the competitions. So far, the newest generation IOR seems to look the best on paper, but like I said, I'm new......anyone? </div></div>
First off, like everyone has said, you get what you pay for in glass in most cases. Low end would be leupold - they have worked well for my PD and I have never had a problem with them, but they seem to have fallen out of favor with people who are looking for perfection.
For real LE work, the lower the power the better, and a wide FOV is a must. You don't want to keep having to move back and forth between the top floor windows and front door - and the reality is most sniper deployments are across the street. On the range and at at competitions, higher magnification is better. In real life, the ability to dial the power knob down to low power is a must. 5x on the low end to me is too much. I'd much rather have 2.5 or 3.5 on the low end. On the top, I can make 1000 yard shots with a 10x just fine - even though I cannot fathom taking that shot in an LE situation.
I've had nikons, leupolds, IOR's, Burris', and have shot others' nightforce. Right now, I think the nightforce is the best bang for the buck.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: O2thief</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm fairly new to the precision marksmanship community and need opinions from more experienced marksmen. I'm looking to put an optic on my GAP crusader that will be capable of handling both LE call outs and competitions geared toward sharpening job related skills. The largest field of veiw possible would help for duty situations, but it would be nice to have a higher than 10x magnification for the competitions. So far, the newest generation IOR seems to look the best on paper, but like I said, I'm new......anyone? </div></div>
First off, like everyone has said, you get what you pay for in glass in most cases. Low end would be leupold - they have worked well for my PD and I have never had a problem with them, but they seem to have fallen out of favor with people who are looking for perfection.
For real LE work, the lower the power the better, and a wide FOV is a must. You don't want to keep having to move back and forth between the top floor windows and front door - and the reality is most sniper deployments are across the street. On the range and at at competitions, higher magnification is better. In real life, the ability to dial the power knob down to low power is a must. 5x on the low end to me is too much. I'd much rather have 2.5 or 3.5 on the low end. On the top, I can make 1000 yard shots with a 10x just fine - even though I cannot fathom taking that shot in an LE situation.
I've had nikons, leupolds, IOR's, Burris', and have shot others' nightforce. Right now, I think the nightforce is the best bang for the buck.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the IOR stuff, good reticles, knobs, glass but reliability is the main thing.
I think a nightforce 3-15 with all the goodies is your safest bet. </div></div>
reliability does not seem to be an issue with 4th gen.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the IOR stuff, good reticles, knobs, glass but reliability is the main thing.
I think a nightforce 3-15 with all the goodies is your safest bet. </div></div>
reliability does not seem to be an issue with 4th gen.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
reliability does not seem to be an issue with 4th gen. </div></div>
I hope so, supposedly they are upgrading me to 4th gen. I loved that scope but unless I can be sure they're reliable I can't recommend it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
reliability does not seem to be an issue with 4th gen. </div></div>
I hope so, supposedly they are upgrading me to 4th gen. I loved that scope but unless I can be sure they're reliable I can't recommend it.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
For your stated purposes, a 1-8 is the wrong animal.
3-5 on the low end and 14-20 on the high end would be a good range.
First thing you need to do is figure out what price range you can do...then bump it a little. Good glass is extremely important for the purposes you stated.
Then figure out if you need FFP or if SFP will suffice. I would suggest FFP for any real deal situations that are in un-controled environments, but people have been using SFP to great affect too.
For your stated purposes, a 1-8 is the wrong animal.
3-5 on the low end and 14-20 on the high end would be a good range.
First thing you need to do is figure out what price range you can do...then bump it a little. Good glass is extremely important for the purposes you stated.
Then figure out if you need FFP or if SFP will suffice. I would suggest FFP for any real deal situations that are in un-controled environments, but people have been using SFP to great affect too.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
I'll tell you that S&B 3-20 is really peaking my interest. That really might be the ticket for you. I own 2 USO 3.2-17's they are great, a mk4 4.5-14, and I just picked up a NF 3-15, haven't mounted it yet but i am impressed for the $. The S&B magnification range is what is appealing to me though. I think this will probably be my next purchase, unless I run across some other great deals on the EE, I just can't seem to pass up some of these deals. Good Luck in your search.
I'll tell you that S&B 3-20 is really peaking my interest. That really might be the ticket for you. I own 2 USO 3.2-17's they are great, a mk4 4.5-14, and I just picked up a NF 3-15, haven't mounted it yet but i am impressed for the $. The S&B magnification range is what is appealing to me though. I think this will probably be my next purchase, unless I run across some other great deals on the EE, I just can't seem to pass up some of these deals. Good Luck in your search.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
Counter sniper, the name says it all.
lol. Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Flyingbullseye
Counter sniper, the name says it all.
lol. Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Flyingbullseye
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
I'm having the same problem in figuring out which scope to buy. Like you, this is for a dual-use rifle. I will be primarily using the rifle for competition and training, but it has the potential for becoming an operational rifle. I'm essentially the back-up sniper in case someone goes down on the team for whatever reason (sickness, injury, vacation, etc). We have a Remington M700 PSS with a Leupold VX-III duplex scope as a back up rifle, but I have my own setup that will be authorized.
I'd like to think that the S&B PMII 3-20x is the ideal scope for LE work, but I can't justify spending $3149 right now on a scope.
I've relegated my decision to the following options: Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x, Vortex Razor HD 5-20x, and USO SN3 3.2-17x.
Everyone on the team runs Leupold Mark4, but the requirement is that we have to have illuminated reticles. I only like to use mil/mil, so Leupolds are out since they don't make illuminated M5 models. Right now, it's a serious fight to determine how much money I want to spend, since the cost steps range from $1800 to $2300 for the scopes that I want. I think the SN3 is the best option, but it's also going to cost me the most at $2300 fully configured the way I want it (after the 10% LE discount, mind you).
Decisions, decisions...
Let us know what you guys come up with.
I'm having the same problem in figuring out which scope to buy. Like you, this is for a dual-use rifle. I will be primarily using the rifle for competition and training, but it has the potential for becoming an operational rifle. I'm essentially the back-up sniper in case someone goes down on the team for whatever reason (sickness, injury, vacation, etc). We have a Remington M700 PSS with a Leupold VX-III duplex scope as a back up rifle, but I have my own setup that will be authorized.
I'd like to think that the S&B PMII 3-20x is the ideal scope for LE work, but I can't justify spending $3149 right now on a scope.
I've relegated my decision to the following options: Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x, Vortex Razor HD 5-20x, and USO SN3 3.2-17x.
Everyone on the team runs Leupold Mark4, but the requirement is that we have to have illuminated reticles. I only like to use mil/mil, so Leupolds are out since they don't make illuminated M5 models. Right now, it's a serious fight to determine how much money I want to spend, since the cost steps range from $1800 to $2300 for the scopes that I want. I think the SN3 is the best option, but it's also going to cost me the most at $2300 fully configured the way I want it (after the 10% LE discount, mind you).
Decisions, decisions...
Let us know what you guys come up with.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flyingbullseye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Counter sniper, the name says it all.
lol. Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Flyingbullseye </div></div>
I assure you......I can help you.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flyingbullseye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Counter sniper, the name says it all.
lol. Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Flyingbullseye </div></div>
I assure you......I can help you.......
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
All good options but like the one post says, get behind as many as you can. Wish I would have done this before deciding on my AR 3-gun optic, whould have saved me a bundle of cash.
All good options but like the one post says, get behind as many as you can. Wish I would have done this before deciding on my AR 3-gun optic, whould have saved me a bundle of cash.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
I REALLY want to get my hands on the S&B 3-20x. It seems like an excellent compromise.
My current "double duty" optic is the USO SN-3 3.2-17x.
3x is a good low-end for LE work. For competitions having access to high magnification can be extremely useful.
I have been running the Vortex Razor 5-20x for a month now. The 5x is on the high end of what I can use at work. I can still make it work, but it's not optimal.
I REALLY want to get my hands on the S&B 3-20x. It seems like an excellent compromise.
My current "double duty" optic is the USO SN-3 3.2-17x.
3x is a good low-end for LE work. For competitions having access to high magnification can be extremely useful.
I have been running the Vortex Razor 5-20x for a month now. The 5x is on the high end of what I can use at work. I can still make it work, but it's not optimal.
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
The NF 3-15x50 is definately what u need. If your Dept. is dishing out some money then go USO 3-17 or the S&B. Outside of that grab the NF and keep some money in your pocket (WOW! I never thought I would be talking about NF as economical way to go)
The NF 3-15x50 is definately what u need. If your Dept. is dishing out some money then go USO 3-17 or the S&B. Outside of that grab the NF and keep some money in your pocket (WOW! I never thought I would be talking about NF as economical way to go)
Re: Need scope capable of both LE duty and competition
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flyingbullseye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Counter sniper, the name says it all.
lol. Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Flyingbullseye </div></div>
I assure you......I can help you.......
</div></div>
So long as its help with how to range while I range, or pointing me in the direction of a cheap working S&B.
Man I can't even type this post with a straight face.
Flyingbullseye
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flyingbullseye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Counter sniper, the name says it all.
lol. Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Flyingbullseye </div></div>
I assure you......I can help you.......
So long as its help with how to range while I range, or pointing me in the direction of a cheap working S&B.
Man I can't even type this post with a straight face.
Flyingbullseye
Similar threads
