I'm wanting to put together an M14 EBR and I'm needing to know whether to get a national match or the standard model. Is the national match really that much better? Can the national match hold sub MOA groups?
- Thread starter TAKDRIVEN
- Start date
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TAKEDA54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm wanting to put together an M14 EBR and I'm needing to know whether to get a national match or the standard model. Is the national match really that much better? Can the national match hold sub MOA groups? </div></div>
The standard should be fine... TACOM M14EBR-RI rifles use rack grade M14s with original chrome lined barrels and get sub MOA accuracy with M118LR. I recommend you also invest in the M14/M21A5 C-IED 4.5 lb MAX-PAK Trigger Upgrade from SEI.
Here are some M14EBR-RI rifles.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TAKEDA54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm wanting to put together an M14 EBR and I'm needing to know whether to get a national match or the standard model. Is the national match really that much better? Can the national match hold sub MOA groups? </div></div>
The standard should be fine... TACOM M14EBR-RI rifles use rack grade M14s with original chrome lined barrels and get sub MOA accuracy with M118LR. I recommend you also invest in the M14/M21A5 C-IED 4.5 lb MAX-PAK Trigger Upgrade from SEI.
Here are some M14EBR-RI rifles.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TAKEDA54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm wanting to put together an M14 EBR and I'm needing to know whether to get a national match or the standard model. Is the national match really that much better? Can the national match hold sub MOA groups? </div></div>
why
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TAKEDA54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm wanting to put together an M14 EBR and I'm needing to know whether to get a national match or the standard model. Is the national match really that much better? Can the national match hold sub MOA groups? </div></div>
why
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
With the NM your paying a lot for a bedded action which is lost when you change stocks.
With the NM your paying a lot for a bedded action which is lost when you change stocks.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
I just don't get turning a fine battle rifle into one of those mutated abortions. I'll take the traditional stock on that rifle all day long. If one needs all the bells and whistles on an M14, then a JAE stock at least feels ergonomic, albeit it's heavy.
I just don't get turning a fine battle rifle into one of those mutated abortions. I'll take the traditional stock on that rifle all day long. If one needs all the bells and whistles on an M14, then a JAE stock at least feels ergonomic, albeit it's heavy.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
I'm with Dark Horse. I have two full-tilt Smith Enterprise rifles that shoot into 1MOA with most quality 155-175gr. match ammo. One's with a 22" stainless Krieger and the other an 18" SEI medium/heavy. Both are fairly lightweight and mounted in std. USGI fiberglass stocks. These stocks, of course, have no provision for bedding. I was interested in replacing these stocks with a Sage EBR on the shorty and a JAE on the other. Once I got my hands on a Sage to try out I couldn't figure out why anybody would want one. It was like holding onto a porcupine and, at least for me, very unergonomic. I like the looks and engineering that went into the JAE but it's too damn heavy, plus I hear it can be difficult to seperate the barreled action from the stock. The weight is certainly an important consideration but any difficulty in breaking down the rifle for servicing in the field is a deal breaker for me. The way I see it, the only real drawbacks to these stocks is the lack of any good rail mounting points on the sides of the forearm for lights and lasers, no provisions for QD side mount sling swivels, and they're a bit plain. (SEI does make a nice rail for the bottom with an integrated sling swivel but their side units aren't parallel to the bore centerline.) So, what do we have? The USGI is light, cheap, strong, ergonomic, easy to service, plentiful, and authentic. And with a well-built rifle they shoot quite well. My second choice would be a lightweight McMillian (bedded, of course). After I have Karsten mount a cheekpiece and do a custom digital camo paint job on each of mine I'll be happy with what Uncle Sam issued way back then.
I'm with Dark Horse. I have two full-tilt Smith Enterprise rifles that shoot into 1MOA with most quality 155-175gr. match ammo. One's with a 22" stainless Krieger and the other an 18" SEI medium/heavy. Both are fairly lightweight and mounted in std. USGI fiberglass stocks. These stocks, of course, have no provision for bedding. I was interested in replacing these stocks with a Sage EBR on the shorty and a JAE on the other. Once I got my hands on a Sage to try out I couldn't figure out why anybody would want one. It was like holding onto a porcupine and, at least for me, very unergonomic. I like the looks and engineering that went into the JAE but it's too damn heavy, plus I hear it can be difficult to seperate the barreled action from the stock. The weight is certainly an important consideration but any difficulty in breaking down the rifle for servicing in the field is a deal breaker for me. The way I see it, the only real drawbacks to these stocks is the lack of any good rail mounting points on the sides of the forearm for lights and lasers, no provisions for QD side mount sling swivels, and they're a bit plain. (SEI does make a nice rail for the bottom with an integrated sling swivel but their side units aren't parallel to the bore centerline.) So, what do we have? The USGI is light, cheap, strong, ergonomic, easy to service, plentiful, and authentic. And with a well-built rifle they shoot quite well. My second choice would be a lightweight McMillian (bedded, of course). After I have Karsten mount a cheekpiece and do a custom digital camo paint job on each of mine I'll be happy with what Uncle Sam issued way back then.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
It's actually easy to remove the barreled action from a JAE. Loosening the the lug screws that hold the receiver, the lug slides will just slide out with it. It's placing the barreled action back into the stock with the lug slides that can be a little tricky.
I completely agree on Sage/Troy style stocks...they just don't feel right.
It's actually easy to remove the barreled action from a JAE. Loosening the the lug screws that hold the receiver, the lug slides will just slide out with it. It's placing the barreled action back into the stock with the lug slides that can be a little tricky.
I completely agree on Sage/Troy style stocks...they just don't feel right.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
I think its great that M14/M1A shooter have so many choices... traditional USGI
wood & synthetic, McMillan, SAGE, JAE, TROY, and an assortment of custom stocks.
I would like to own at least one of every M14 stock ever made, but I have
not hit the LOTTO, so I stick with what I like and know best... SAGE EBR.
My second favorite is a tight fitting USGI synthetic and I love the look and
feel of USGI walnut and birch, but I'm not crazy about bedding the action.
I think its great that M14/M1A shooter have so many choices... traditional USGI
wood & synthetic, McMillan, SAGE, JAE, TROY, and an assortment of custom stocks.
I would like to own at least one of every M14 stock ever made, but I have
not hit the LOTTO, so I stick with what I like and know best... SAGE EBR.
My second favorite is a tight fitting USGI synthetic and I love the look and
feel of USGI walnut and birch, but I'm not crazy about bedding the action.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
Certainly nothing like wood. Depending on the app, sometimes not so practical tho'. Regarding the JAE being easy to remove, I've heard from sources as reputable as they get, that they have experienced difficulty when trying to pull the barreled action from the stock. Evidently, the aluminum slides that engage the action lug, being a relatively soft material, tend to distort a bit upon torquing down and then when trying to remove also tend to "stick" to their surrounding mating surfaces. Usually. a mallet is called for, sometimes two people. Perhaps that is why JAE offers a set of titanium lug slides as an option (Ti is much harder and does not exhibit the sticky tendency that aluminum does). All that said, I'd like to put together another rifle using one of these for F-class and see for myself just how good they really are. Probably won't happen as the next one will be a high-end USGI NM clone built by Clint Fowler. In wood.
Certainly nothing like wood. Depending on the app, sometimes not so practical tho'. Regarding the JAE being easy to remove, I've heard from sources as reputable as they get, that they have experienced difficulty when trying to pull the barreled action from the stock. Evidently, the aluminum slides that engage the action lug, being a relatively soft material, tend to distort a bit upon torquing down and then when trying to remove also tend to "stick" to their surrounding mating surfaces. Usually. a mallet is called for, sometimes two people. Perhaps that is why JAE offers a set of titanium lug slides as an option (Ti is much harder and does not exhibit the sticky tendency that aluminum does). All that said, I'd like to put together another rifle using one of these for F-class and see for myself just how good they really are. Probably won't happen as the next one will be a high-end USGI NM clone built by Clint Fowler. In wood.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
Go with the standard. It will shoot well enough, and save you weight and $$$. You can always upgrade to a different barrel later, and by then you will have more experience to make a better informed decision to meet your needs.
Go with the standard. It will shoot well enough, and save you weight and $$$. You can always upgrade to a different barrel later, and by then you will have more experience to make a better informed decision to meet your needs.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
I second longbow, that's what I did. It's a lot of fun, if you don't mind changing your mind often on what to upgrade to as you get more trigger time.
I second longbow, that's what I did. It's a lot of fun, if you don't mind changing your mind often on what to upgrade to as you get more trigger time.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
If you're going to get an M1A to transfer to a new chassis system, get the "loaded" model. The loaded offers a lot of the NM upgrades and is the ideal platform to drop in to an aftermarket chassis. Like the others stated above, you lose the bedding that a NM rifle comes with if you remove it from the original stock. The loaded comes with a NM barrel, NM trigger job, NM reamed flash suppresor, and a NM front sight blade. Get the gas cylinder unitized, swap out the gas psiton for a Sadlak TiNi unit, and you're good to go!
If you're going to get an M1A to transfer to a new chassis system, get the "loaded" model. The loaded offers a lot of the NM upgrades and is the ideal platform to drop in to an aftermarket chassis. Like the others stated above, you lose the bedding that a NM rifle comes with if you remove it from the original stock. The loaded comes with a NM barrel, NM trigger job, NM reamed flash suppresor, and a NM front sight blade. Get the gas cylinder unitized, swap out the gas psiton for a Sadlak TiNi unit, and you're good to go!
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
I would say get a loaded model, I think buds guns has one for 1400 with a synthetic stock which is only a hundred bucks more than a standard. If you do order from them call them on the phone and make sure it's exactly what you want though as I've known people who purchased one thing and received another, like ordering a stainless pistol and getting a blued one instead.
I would say get a loaded model, I think buds guns has one for 1400 with a synthetic stock which is only a hundred bucks more than a standard. If you do order from them call them on the phone and make sure it's exactly what you want though as I've known people who purchased one thing and received another, like ordering a stainless pistol and getting a blued one instead.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
I'd say go with a standard over the NM. It'll save you money and weight. FWIW, you can pick up a standard M1A reasonable and then dress it out. You can run across a good used rifle with a good usgi chrome lined barrel for reasonable money.
I run a Springer M1A that it is almost entirely comprised of usgi parts in a Sage EBR on duty as a dedicated patrol rifle. It wears an Eotech XPS 3.0 and a surefire M952 scout light. Couldn't be happier with the set-up.
I'd say go with a standard over the NM. It'll save you money and weight. FWIW, you can pick up a standard M1A reasonable and then dress it out. You can run across a good used rifle with a good usgi chrome lined barrel for reasonable money.
I run a Springer M1A that it is almost entirely comprised of usgi parts in a Sage EBR on duty as a dedicated patrol rifle. It wears an Eotech XPS 3.0 and a surefire M952 scout light. Couldn't be happier with the set-up.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
My choice would be the loaded model. Lots of match compomnents and not that much more expensive than the standard model.
My choice would be the loaded model. Lots of match compomnents and not that much more expensive than the standard model.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
My standard model M1A would shoot 1-5-2" 5 shot groups with 168 SMK's. My Devine TX NM will consistantly shoot under an inch with the same loads. But a loaded M1A is a good compromise if mnoey is a constraint.
My standard model M1A would shoot 1-5-2" 5 shot groups with 168 SMK's. My Devine TX NM will consistantly shoot under an inch with the same loads. But a loaded M1A is a good compromise if mnoey is a constraint.
Re: Need some advice on a M1A
If you are definitely changing out the stock then get the loaded package. With the NM & Super you will loose the bedded stock which is essential to those models being extremely accurate. However, with the loaded package you get a lot of the upgrades of the NM without paying for a bedded stock. Just purchase good aftermarket NM gas piston and NM OP rod spring guide and you will be good to go. As mentioned Sadlak Industries LLC and Smith enterprise are exceptional products.Good Luck....PAT.
If you are definitely changing out the stock then get the loaded package. With the NM & Super you will loose the bedded stock which is essential to those models being extremely accurate. However, with the loaded package you get a lot of the upgrades of the NM without paying for a bedded stock. Just purchase good aftermarket NM gas piston and NM OP rod spring guide and you will be good to go. As mentioned Sadlak Industries LLC and Smith enterprise are exceptional products.Good Luck....PAT.
