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Need some help..... fast

_Shay_

thing 2
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 5, 2009
1,804
16
USA
The mags I have for my AR arent feeding right or something is messed up with the gun. Im not sure what is is, so Im hoping I can get some help.

I was sighting it in today, and every 2 or 3 rounds wouldnt feed right. The bolt would push the round forward, but it would slip and be at the center of the round, near where it slants and the bullet is. I ruined 3-4 shells with this problem. Is it the gun or the mags? I need this to be fixed, as Im going hunting this weekend.

Thanks a lot guys
Shay
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

One extremely easy way to rule out a problem with the magazine is to just try another...
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

I'd substitute the magazine first. It seems most likely to be the problem to me. Second thing to consider is bolt speed too fast for the magazine to push the next bullet up into the path of the bolt. It happened to me with my AR10 and some hot handloads. I backed off the charge weight and it worked fine.
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

I had this type of issue with my ar as well, i bought new springs and followers and the problem was fixed. Hope it helps!
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

Sounds like it's short stroking to me. Check gas tube fitment at the gas key and buffer movement. A short stoke will cause the very thing your talking about.
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

Okay, the rifle is a 5.56 from del ton. The upper came assembled, but I assembled the lower.

It is probably the mags, so Ill prder a 20rd pmag tonight.

Or it could be that I have a 20" upper and a carbine buffer system? Should I switch to an a2 stock instead of an m4 stock?
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

I had this same issue with a ar15 and a PRI mag.... i switched out the mag and everything works fine... If you switch out the mag and the problem still happens, then its probably short stroking...
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nut job</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like it's short stroking to me. Check gas tube fitment at the gas key and buffer movement. A short stoke will cause the very thing your talking about.</div></div> This was my immediate thought upon reading the initial post.
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

well, its not short stroking, it locks open after the last round. Must be the mags, right?
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _Shay_</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well, its not short stroking, it locks open after the last round. Must be the mags, right? </div></div>

My guess is its the mag... try a few different ones out and see if the problem continues.
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

20" upper and carbine stock/buffer/tube should have absolutely nothing to do with it at all. I have seen plenty of rifle-length gas systems running with carbine stock setups with no problems and I currently run a few myself.

I tend to agree with nut job that it might be a short stroking situation. Short stroking is when the bolt carrier group does not cycle far enough to the rear to be able to strip a round from the magazine and chamber the next round. It varies in degrees and can either cause a stove pipe of the ejecting round, a complete ejection and failure to pick up a new round causing the bolt to close on an empty chamber, or, sometimes you can get a short stroke similar to what you are describing.

This happens when there is an issue with the gas system.
To see if you have a short stroking problem and not another problem, try the following:

1) Insert one round into a magazine that you know to be performing well;
2) Insert the magazine into the magazine well, pull the charging handle to the rear, then release the charging handle to chamber the round;
3) Discharge that round;
4) After the round has been fired the bolt should automatically be locked to the rear by the bolt catch and the empty magazine. If the bolt is closed on the empty chamber, then it did not travel far enough to the rear to be held by the bolt catch, and your rifle has short stroked.

If you are having a short stroking problem, is it one or more of several problems. Check the following:

1) Ammo: Some commercial ammo is not be strong enough to cycle an AR. Swicth ammos and see if that resolves the issue. If the weapon works correctly then you may have some bad ammo.

2) Lube and clean: Properly clean and lube the rifle per spec.

3) Carrier key: If the carrier key is loose, the gas system will not hold enough pressure to fully cycle the weapon. If it is loose, torqued the bolts down to 35-40 in/lbs (and I'd stake the darn thing if not done already which should prevent it from coming lose to a certain extent).

4) Gas tube: Inspect your gas tube and determine if there is any visible damage. If so, replace it. If not, you may try cleaning it and see if there is some form of obstruction or other problem.

5) Gas rings: Inspect the rings and make sure that they are installed properly. Disassemble the carrier group, clean and inspect for any signs of trouble/damage, and again, if you haven't already, properly lube everything before it goes back in rifle.

If none of that works...well...prayer may help!!!
wink.gif
Seriously, try that and see what happens. If not, come back and the folks her can try again.

Thx to THR for info above on SS.
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

okay, Ill do what you said in a few minutes. Thanks so much for the help everyone.
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

Probably the Mag... Take it apart and stretch the spring a little. I did that for a guy at the range after he had exhausted all of the "expert" advice from the other guys at the range that day. Worked like a charm!

Buffer might be too light too. If you can try a heavier buffer, try that too.

I tend to try the easy solutions before getting into messing with the gas-system.
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

well, Its not shortstroking. It locks back after an empty mag. Looks like Ill get some pmags. Are the 20rd pmags alright? anyone ever use them?
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

Yeah...hopefully it is as simple as a mag issue. I didn't see where you posted it before, but what kind/kinds of mags are you running right now that you think are causing the problem?

As for the PMAGs...yes, they are available in 20rnd versions. I have several 20 and 30rnd PMAGs and all are 100% in every rifle I have used them in.
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

Im using brownells 30 and 20rd mags. I checked a few minutes ago, and it didnt shortstroke, the bolt locked back.

The problem is probably the follower/weak spring combo. Ill get some pmags due to the fact that they are overall better.
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

Generally the Brownells mags are GTG unless yours are just old or beat up, etc.

Good luck with the PMAGs...they are worth getting even if it turns out not to be a mag issue!
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

maybe they are old. the springs were a little rusty. But, from what Ive read and what Ive tested, it is a mag problem. So pmags it is!
 
Re: Need some help..... fast

Brand new gun?

Either sloppy mag spring, the first rounds should come out OK as there will be more tension with a full mag, and problem increase as mag is emptied.
Or sticky follower/dirty or slightly dented mag, the latter should make the problem more prone in a certain area and is less likely.
All of the above would be preventing/slowing upwards movement of the next round, possibly every now and then enough to give you the problems youre describing, provided the mag is used (dirty or dented/worn).

For a new mag; wrong angle or burrs on the feed lips could give these issues as well (had them myself, a chainsaw file and a pair of pliers fixed it), sometimes the bolt would stop behind the stuck round but sometimes the angle will let the round work up in font and let the bolt jump on top of it before it jams.
Another thing with the mag COULD be magazine height when inserted, that its locking notch is somehow out of spec or the mag catch in the mag well is somehow holding it incorrectly.
Get a handful and try. You will need them sooner or later anyway.
While at the shop, dish out the extra cash and get 1 H&K mag (taken its a 5.56) for hunting and other serious use...if the price seems too steep, play with it for a while...and then try to leave it at the shop
grin.gif


A simple mag test could be to load it up fully, insert it, pull charging handle so that bolt face is slightly behind the next round and let it go. It should slam forward, loading the round.
Do this for the entire mag. It would give you an indication if there is any friction or angle issues in the feed lips.
And please do it at the range with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction...
whistle.gif


If mag is OK, like stated above its shortstroking, preventing the bolt from moving behind the next round, riding on top of it the whole time just far enough back to allow it to flip up slightly in the front and thus be ruined when the bolt comes forward again.
Shortstroking is a whole different science thats already pretty well covered.
Good luck, sorry for ranting...

John - out