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Never Go Digital!

Re: Never Go Digital!

Most of the guys who don't like digital scales have bought a few $30 or even $100++ piece of shit digital scales and ended up going back to their old beam scales.

Try a RCBS Chargemaster combo and you'll never look back.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cronos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i zero my calipers regularly</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> rezero</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">digital</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">calibrate</div></div>
Sorry that's all I got from that. </div></div>

good i am glad. now maybe you wont have the same problem.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rprecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trying to get .1 grn accuracy with drug dealer grade scales is ignorant. </div></div>

This is the funniest thing I've read today. And its so true. You cant expect a cheap digital scale to have great reputability.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

Repeatability is the key. If your scale says 43.2 but it does it every time with a check weight....you can count on it. My dial caliper is about .0005 out. But it does it every time.So...I use MY settings and MY OALs and It is all repeatable. So is my Chargemaster. Keep it on all the time with a dependable uninterruptable power supply and it cooks. If you have a scale that is DEAD ON with a charge that reads 45 (or maybe 43.3 or 43.2...whatever works) grains...and that charge is the one best for you...the use the damn thing and be happy. I suppose that there is a market for something out there that will cut ONE granule of 4064 into 10 pieces to get the freaking laboratory triple balance scales to zero. OCD is a terrible disease when taken to extremes. JMHO
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cronos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm done with digital crap.. Electronics has failed me one too many times now. Just spent a couple hours loading up rounds only to realize that my DIGITAL calipers needed to be re-zeroed. I loaded all these thinking they were 2.800, only to find that they were 2.790. not that they wont shoot, but its aggravating. </div></div>

Could it possibly be the quality of the tool (and not te fact it's digital) that was the problem?

I - for one - will continue to use digital tools as much as possible. I find they work BETTER than thier analog counter-parts, which have a greater propensity for human error. Yes - I can get them "wrong", but that is no different than with the analog versions (which have a greater chance of being mis-used in many cases).
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

Not to belabor the point, jim. But I'm not buying it. Digital is not inherently more accurate speaking of moderately priced calipers and weight scales.
BB
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to belabor the point, jim. But I'm not buying it. Digital is not inherently more accurate speaking of moderately priced calipers and weight scales.
BB </div></div>

I think his point, and it's one that I share with him, is that a digital anything is clear in it's output. It doesn't require human judgement.
This is why I went with a digital scale. I don't want to have to judge if one line is "close enough" to another line. That's a subjective judgement, and maybe one day I'll be a little more lenient than another day. I'd rather have a number. Basically, I trust the machine to perform or fail in a predictable manner more than I trust myself to.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

Its not like im saying i'm going to throw away all my digital shit. In fact I'm still going to use my digital shit. But when it comes time I'm replacing my digital with quality equipment that doesn't rely on a power source.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

OK so I've been reading this thread and wondering what my digital scales were doing. So I set up my beam scale next to my Lymann 1200 yesterday and I was surprised to see that my digital consistently throws .1 gr higher than it reads. Every other load to eveery third it might throw .2 gr higher...

So now my question is what #'s do .1 gr and .2 gr transalate to? What is the actual velocity difference between them and is it actually worth taking the extra time to really make sure that each and every round is with in .1 gr.?

Thanks for the info!!
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

Did you properly calibrate your scale? I do it and its always spot on with my calibration weights and checks out on my balance beam.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rick 324</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So I set up my beam scale next to my Lymann 1200 yesterday and I was surprised to see that my digital consistently throws .1 gr higher than it reads. Every other load to eveery third it might throw .2 gr higher... </div></div>

Unless your beam scale is calibrated against some lab standard, how do you know it is the one that is correct and not the digital? I agree with some other comments that have been made regarding consistency. If a digital scale consistently reads .1 grain low, it really doesn't matter. Your loads will be adjusted to your rifle and all will be fine. I would worry a lot more if you were getting variable readings.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

Yeah, what he said.

They keep a cylinder of (I think) platinum somewhere in France, and the "scientists" are puzzled that it keeps losing weight?

It don't matter if you check your digital with your balance beam. (or visa versa) All that matters is that it is consistent. If some buddy tells you to use 44.2 grains of Varget, you have more than one problem. First, his gun ain't your gun so he can't know what is the most accurate, or a max load. Second, your digital scale might be two tenths off anyway so it don't matter. Maybe you little weights are off. None of it matters as long as it's consistent, from one charge to the next and you arrived at the charge observing safe practices and evaluating nodes or however you do it.

Alfred E. Newman had the right idea.
BB
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

I'd just like to point out a difference in the two technologies when it comes to calibration. Digital is better at resolving a non linear calibration error as compaired to a balance. With inexpensive memory nowdays each 100th of a grain can have its own look-up entry. What about gravity varing all over the USA with lat/lon.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

I went digital and have not looked back. RCBS Chargemaster and a digital caliper. I have not had any problems yet and its a heck of a lot easier to see. I'm seeing steady consistency with all of my loads.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

The only thing that is consistent about consistently throwing .1 and .2 or higher, is that its fucked up... In other words, that is not consistent.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

Drop an extra granule or two on your beam scale and it will produce the sound of chirping crickets.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

Jezus! None of it matters, people. A tenth of a grain, one/70,000th of a pound is meaningless, fer cripes sakes! Worry about your trigger control, your wind doping, your heart beat but don't worry so much about whether your scale is weighing your loads a tenth over, or HEAVENS SAKE, two (whole) tenths. This is getting ridiculous. BB
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cronos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing that is consistent about consistently throwing .1 and .2 or higher, is that its fucked up... In other words, that is not consistent. </div></div>

It may not be accurate as compared to the platinum/iridium SI reference bars stored in France, but it is totally consistent and repeatable. As long as you are duplicating the charge that is safe in your rifle and is providing the groups and velocity you are seeking, it makes no difference if that charge was reached on a beam scale, digital scale or with a scoop. Repeatability is everything.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

As a threshold issue...unless you are loading for multiple rifles of the same chambering that require different seating depths or switching bullets... why are you messing with your seating die after you adjusted it to where you wanted the first time?
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rick 324</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK so I've been reading this thread and wondering what my digital scales were doing. So I set up my beam scale next to my Lymann 1200 yesterday and I was surprised to see that my digital consistently throws .1 gr higher than it reads. Every other load to eveery third it might throw .2 gr higher...

So now my question is what #'s do .1 gr and .2 gr transalate to? What is the actual velocity difference between them and is it actually worth taking the extra time to really make sure that each and every round is with in .1 gr.?

Thanks for the info!! </div></div>
I have noticed dramatic changes with .2 and .3 changes in my loads with my rifle. Make sure the powder is spread out evenly and in the center of the scale, otherwise it could give you a false reading. If you do that already, or try it and it doesn't solve the problem I wouldn't use that scale anymore
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MJY65</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cronos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing that is consistent about consistently throwing .1 and .2 or higher, is that its fucked up... In other words, that is not consistent. </div></div>

It may not be accurate as compared to the platinum/iridium SI reference bars stored in France, but it is totally consistent and repeatable. As long as you are duplicating the charge that is safe in your rifle and is providing the groups and velocity you are seeking, it makes no difference if that charge was reached on a beam scale, digital scale or with a scoop. Repeatability is everything. </div></div>
Not sure if I quite understand your post. Unless you quoted me on accident? the word consistent doesn't come into play when you say .1 and .2 difference
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

"What about gravity varing all over the USA with lat/lon."

It's worth mentioning that gravity variations only matter for electronic scales, not balance beams.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jezus! None of it matters, people. A tenth of a grain, one/70,000th of a pound is meaningless, fer cripes sakes! Worry about your trigger control, your wind doping, your heart beat but don't worry so much about whether your scale is weighing your loads a tenth over, or HEAVENS SAKE, two (whole) tenths. This is getting ridiculous. BB </div></div>

This would seem to be the case.

Guys seem to get lost spiraling down the rabbit hole chasing perfection when either their gun or they themselves cannot even take advantage of the benefits.

I just went with an RCBS Chargemaster.

With my OCD Id go nuts trying to find reloading perfection.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

That is it, Im done

When the sun comes up I am heading out front and tearing the fuel injection of my truck. This is bull shit.

Its time to bring back the carbs, god dam electronics, bull shit.

Mmmmmmm.........remeber that argument circa 1980's

Just saying
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rprecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is it, Im done

When the sun comes up I am heading out front and tearing the fuel injection of my truck. This is bull shit.

Its time to bring back the carbs, god dam electronics, bull shit.

Mmmmmmm.........remeber that argument circa 1980's

Just saying </div></div>

I don't know your meaning, exactly? I assume something about the inevitability if progress, etc.?

I am still chewing on my recent visit to the dealership where they found the source of my "check engine" lite. It was an O2 sensor, of which there are FOUR in my engine, and I didn't even know it. Nor did I know that those puppies cost $500! At the price of gas, I should break even in (oh) sometime next year? Progress, sure, but I remember back when I could look under the hood and knew what everything was and what it did.
BB
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am still chewing on my recent visit to the dealership where they found the source of my "check engine" lite. It was an O2 sensor, of which there are FOUR in my engine, and I didn't even know it. Nor did I know that those puppies cost $500! At the price of gas, I should break even in (oh) sometime next year? Progress, sure, but I remember back when I could look under the hood and knew what everything was and what it did.
BB </div></div>

I am old enough to have driven older cars like that as well. Unfortunately, in my experience, most of them got terrible gas mileage, were hard to start in the winter, burned through spark plugs like crazy and spewed visible clouds of pollution. I don't miss them.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jezus! None of it matters, people. A tenth of a grain, one/70,000th of a pound is meaningless, fer cripes sakes! Worry about your trigger control, your wind doping, your heart beat but don't worry so much about whether your scale is weighing your loads a tenth over, or HEAVENS SAKE, two (whole) tenths. This is getting ridiculous. BB </div></div>

Exactly. If someone's rifle is that sensitive...they need a new rifle (assuming we're talking about .260, .223, .308, 6.5CM etc.).

Now if we're talking sub caliber, small cartridges (17 Mach IV, 17 Ackley Hornet, 17 Squirrel etc.); well, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax...
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

"I check my measurement tools against tool room brown and sharpe equipment that can really measure to .0001" all day long."

Goodness. And what you do applies to reloaders how? Nothing we do requires accuracy to a tenth and not many people can use any measurement tool with that level of precision. And you know it.

I have several Chinese calipers and a few micrometers. Checked against my Jo blocks the worst are off no more than a half thou and usually much better than that. I've used maybe two dozen of the Chinese calipers of various brands but have never seen even a Harbor Freight $10-12 caliper with the 10-30 thou inaccuracy you report, nor any with jaws out of square. In fact, I know some machine shops have gone to all HF caiipers, at a price rate of 10 to 20 times the price why not? Drop your B&S, etc, on concret and cry, drop a H.F. and shrug.

It matters not to me how much you're led to spend but suggesting reloaders should be ashamed to buy fully functional Chinese calipers and micrometers for less than $20 each is silly. I wonder if you've checked the 'made in' tag on your computer, modem, router, TV, digital camera or phone or ... a long list of other stuff.
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

Uh huh, keep rubbing our noses in it, fuzz. It's true and it's a shitty situation. Never more true: That BA degree will get you hired at a place where you can ask; do you want fries with that? We don't manufacture anything anymore. Which is why I spent my entire career in the food industry. At least people got to eat.

Yeah, confession. I own a Harbor Freight digital caliper. But the funny thing is, I am still more comfortable using the Mitutoyo with it's dial. I own micrometers to 3" (for some reason) but never use them.
BB
 
Re: Never Go Digital!

I always check my digital scale/powder measures against my manual scale. Everything lines up and you're GTG. You don't have to double weigh every charge, just a few at the beginning and a few at the end(to see if tolerances slipped). Been using this method for many years and it has been consistent.

If for some reason things don't line up then you probably need to clean/recalibrate the scale.