- Thread starter Twisted .308
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Does it penetrate? There is little enough energy in a handgun round already, if it won't reliably penetrate to the vitals from any angle then its just another gimmick round to me.
Is one wall of an 8 inch cinder block enough penetration?
Seems like the bullet fragmentation in the video has greater ability to injure by-standards if used for self-defense.
It is if you are being attacked by cinder blocks, but I don't worry about those too much in my AO. I'll keep a lookout for them though. First zombies now freakin cinder blocks. Its the sheetrock that keeps me up at night though, at times I feel like I'm surrounded by it.
lol
I was thinking the same thing. Great. Now you not only have to worry about some idiot bad guy with a gun, now you have to worry about an idiot with a CCW that jumps on every new bullshit gimmick. Sweet
Cool. I'd like to hear what Dr. Roberts has to say about them but looks like a devastating round.
Edit: I'll bet they'll be LE only once the hoplophobiacs get wind of these. Shit, they're afraid of boxes with springs here in CO. This bullet will make the fucking hippies crap a hash brownie.
Edit: I'll bet they'll be LE only once the hoplophobiacs get wind of these. Shit, they're afraid of boxes with springs here in CO. This bullet will make the fucking hippies crap a hash brownie.
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No offense, but Hydra-shok is an outdated design with poor performance through clothing and barriers.
Looks brutal! Guess they are coming out with other ammo including shot gun slugs....now that will be devastating.
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But will it feed reliably?....
Well the 9mm needs all the help it can get, but you still have to hit what your aiming at and a well placed shot is the most important aspect of defensive shooting.
My thoughts exactly. Light for caliber and designed to frag...running low on awesome.
The manufacturer of it claims it did in testing. When has a manufacturer given you an inaccurate review of their own product before?
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I can guide you to a couple of tombstones that will contradict this info. Matter of fact, I can guide you to one from last week with two to the head through a windshield. Outstanding performance and instant end to the gunfight.
Shot placement is where it is at. There are more dead folks out there that were properly perforated by good ole ball ammo.
Just out of curiosity, do you have any sources to back this up? Links, articles, studies?
Another day, another bullet. :Yawn:
I think it is pretty well established that the newer bonded hollowpoints tend to retain weight well when they expand, and also tend to expand more reliably than some of the older designs. The FBI has done pretty exhaustive studies on this subject. Doesn't mean the older stuff doesn't work though. I do think the FBI methodology has it exactly right though...they emphasize penetration which is really the only must have in any bullet design. The FBI requires more penetration than would you think necessary for a center mass shot, because they recognize from years of field data that people dont usually stand there and get shot...they bend, duck, have their hands and arms in the way because they are trying to shoot you as well, etc.
I think some posts above refer to Hydrashoks being known to plug up and not expand when shot through barriers like heavy clothing. Personally I don't view this as a failure, FMJs work pretty well because they are going to penetrate to the vitals. The newer bonded bullets are just an attempt to create a bullet than will retain weight well enough to penetrate more like an FMJ while still opening up to increase the size of the wound channel. Expansion is nice, but penetration is necessary, so I'd rather have an FMJ than a gimmick bullet if my life was on the line. I'd like to see this bullet shot into calibrated gelatin in the FBI protocol before I'd consider it for carry, and then see if it actually feeds reliably in my carry weapon before I'd actually carry it.
That being said, I'm all for innovation. Building a better mousetrap is how we advance things, who knows maybe this is the next advancement, I'm just wary.
I think some posts above refer to Hydrashoks being known to plug up and not expand when shot through barriers like heavy clothing. Personally I don't view this as a failure, FMJs work pretty well because they are going to penetrate to the vitals. The newer bonded bullets are just an attempt to create a bullet than will retain weight well enough to penetrate more like an FMJ while still opening up to increase the size of the wound channel. Expansion is nice, but penetration is necessary, so I'd rather have an FMJ than a gimmick bullet if my life was on the line. I'd like to see this bullet shot into calibrated gelatin in the FBI protocol before I'd consider it for carry, and then see if it actually feeds reliably in my carry weapon before I'd actually carry it.
That being said, I'm all for innovation. Building a better mousetrap is how we advance things, who knows maybe this is the next advancement, I'm just wary.
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Gonna have to disagree with you there on that first part, while agreeing with the second part, it is about shot placement. There are several LE 9mm Loads that have Excellent Terminal Ballistics. If we're looking at things like defeating Intermediate Barriers, Proper Penetration Depth, Weight Rentention, and Expansion....some of these 9mm Loads come close if not surpass certain .40/.45 Offerings....all while doing it with Less Recoil and Higher Capacity.
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I am no expert but did anyone hear or see the cnc part of the bullet making process? AND full copper? sounds insanely expensive.
Many people debate whether or not it would be a problem, but I promise you that a all those fragments found during an autopsy would lead to questions about the ammo, its lethality and your intent. Many people said it would never happen, but I wouldn't want to be on trial for a SD shooting with this round or any other Boutique round. Show some of those videos to jurors, or even a picture of the damned thing, and see what is said.
Chip
Chip
Yup. Everything published by Dr. Gary Roberts and FBI ballistics testing. Lots of people have been killed with 1st gen JHP, FMJ, musket balls, arrows, etc. but, I'll choose a modern round. Sorry but there are better choices than hydrashok.
These look to me like they're going to fill that niche at a LGS or bigbox store when someone is in there buying their first ever pistol and the guy behind the counter starts with the "We have the ULTIMATE self-defense round. If you shoot someone in the toe his whole leg is going to explode, (blah blah blah blah) and they're only $70 for a box of 25. The SEALS used these to kill Bin Laden (blah blah blah)".
**no offense to my Hide brothers that work the counter at an LGS, but you KNOW the guys I'm talking about
**no offense to my Hide brothers that work the counter at an LGS, but you KNOW the guys I'm talking about
I was hitting up some online ammo shops yesterday trying to help a friend find some bulk 9mm, and one of the places had these listed. They had a note on the product listing that they'd sold out of their entire shipment in the first 5 minutes ($45 a box IIRC).
I laughed my assoff reading that .
" The new DAP (domestic anti personnel) Round represents a great leap forward in ammunition design,”.. said David Lo Pan, spokesman for NORINCO North America .
...“ While the new round is not armor-piercing, it can easily penetrate the Old Testament, The Book of Mormon, iPhones, fanny packs, pocket-sized constitutions, Members Only jackets, frock coats, powdered wigs, and picket signs .”
.
I agree with the less recoil, but if you hit the target in the right place you use less ammo.
Super slow mo + batman narration + gel blocks + big gimmicky words + super awesome buzzsaw-looking blade thingies = best ammo ever.
Doesn't matter if it works on people. Batman said it works using really big words. Where do I buy it?
Doesn't matter if it works on people. Batman said it works using really big words. Where do I buy it?
Yeah, it was in an NRA rag I read a couple years ago. Article by the (retired?) FBI ballistics guy. He goes more into evolution of testing than any particular round, but did mention why that round and the 10mm pistol were dropped (and it wasn't female agents). Supposedly Hydrashock has a high probability of not expanding when it gets plugged. It's not to say it's a bad bullet and won't get the job done, it's just it might not expand as expected and then you've got an exit wound to deal with (when you may not want an exit wound, like with innocents). The 10mm pistol they chose just wasn't reliable enough he said. I have a 1006, close enough, and I can attest they vary enough in reliability and workmanship to render it a bad choice. But if you have a good one, it's a damn fine tank.
For storebought 9mm carry ammo, I like the Winchester Ranger 127+P+ or the 124 Gold Dot +P. Good reliable ammo, but I've got boxes and boxes of the Winchester so I likely won't be changing for at least a decade or more (if I do at all). As for lethality, I can take you to a tombstone of a guy that was killed by a single .177 pellet to the chest. Lady just got 4 years for murder too. Soldier I knew got shot downtown, one .22 to the chest. Dude was 7' tall, killed him nearly instantly.
I don't buy into any of the gimmick ammo either, though I DID get a couple boxes of Duplex Hexolit 12ga. slugs. I just can't see those NOT doing more damage than a regular slug or buckshot. They're also environmentally friendly!
Real testing on this ammo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psGFPRpWZ3w&feature=youtu.be
It's as effective as .22LR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psGFPRpWZ3w&feature=youtu.be
It's as effective as .22LR
Shoot some one with HP and thenlawyer will say that you are annassasin planing to kill people extra dead. Use FMJ and henwill call you a cop killer.
^ Actually I have JHP's in my pistol because 1) They penetrate walls less than FMJ's, and I'm worried about my neighbor. 2) They penetrate the body less than FMJ's, and I'm worried about my loved ones in the house. 3) They cause more shock and blood loss than a FMJ, thus decreasing my chances of having to fire more rounds in defense which is safer for everyone.
All in how you explain it if asked.
Sorry to be off topic for a moment. BTW, I'm going to have to pass on these new "amazing" defensive rounds.
All in how you explain it if asked.
Sorry to be off topic for a moment. BTW, I'm going to have to pass on these new "amazing" defensive rounds.
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I will stick to my hornady critical defense thank you.....
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