New Berger Juggernaut 185gr OTM Tactical Bullet

[FmrChief]

It's hitting shelves at dealers, but still not on the Berger website. I just chanced across it at PowderValley.com the other day, but Google searches show others as well.

The bullet is "Juggernaut OTM Tactical 30 CAL 185 GRAIN, PN: 30107.

From the label: G7 BC = .283, G1 BC = .560. For 1 in 12" Twist or faster.

"These bullets are designed to push (be stable) through transonic velocities extending their effective range in the 300 Win Mag."

Just got two boxes delivered today. Can't wait to load up my favorite 30-06 recipe and get to the range.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: New Berger Juggernaut 185gr OTM Tactical Bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Former Chief</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's hitting shelves at dealers, but still not on the Berger website. I just chanced across it at PowderValley.com the other day, but Google searches show others as well.

The bullet is "Juggernaut OTM Tactical 30 CAL 185 GRAIN, PN: 30107.

From the label: G7 BC = .283, G1 BC = .560. For 1 in 12" Twist or faster.

"These bullets are designed to push (be stable) through transonic velocities extending their effective range in the 300 Win Mag."

Just got two boxes delivered today. Can't wait to load up my favorite 30-06 recipe and get to the range. </div></div>

Looks like they'll give the 185gr Scenars a good run for their money.

I wish we'd stop using OTM and just call them HPBTs.

Make sure you post a range report with all of the particulars, here and on the Depot. Pics are always good.

Chris

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: New Berger Juggernaut 185gr OTM Tactical Bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisGarrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I wish we'd stop using OTM and just call them HPBTs.

Chris </div></div>

I have noticed that as well. Is this a new "softer & gentler" term so when spoken it doesn’t sound like it will kill as bad.

 

[FmrChief]

Re: New Berger Juggernaut 185gr OTM Tactical Bullet

The psychological impact of the "hollow point" designation probably is the reason for the recent move to the "open tip" nomenclature. Historically, hollow points have been associated with "dum dum" spectacular expansion in the public imagination. With match HPBT or OTM design, expansion is pretty much as little or less than FMJ bullets.

I would think that the re-designation is a well deserved change. After all, OTM bullets are actually match (minimal expanding) class, not hunting (enhanced expansion) class.

Perhaps if sniper grade (match) bullets had been called "open tip match" back in 2006, the politically correct Army JAG wouldn't have temporarily "outlawed" their use.

Go back and re-read Clausewitz "On War". To succeed, the military must always be finely attuned to the prevailing attitudes of the civilian masses and the popular media.

 

[FmrChief]

Re: New Berger Juggernaut 185gr OTM Tactical Bullet

I'm hoping that they will outperform the Lapua D46 (Sectional Density: 0.279 Ballistic Coefficient:0.547).

If the Berger beats the D46, it will sure be nice to have a top long range performing cartridge that will fit in a standard magazine (.308 and 30-06).

I may be able to hit the range Monday or Tuesday. I'm experimenting with Reloder 17 and the Lapua D46. The D46's are set back .015 from the lands, but I plan to seat the Juggernauts to magazine length and see how they both do at 300 yards. I'll be happy to post some pics.

 

[softcock]

Re: New Berger Juggernaut 185gr OTM Tactical Bullet

<span style="font-weight: bold">>... "</span> <span style="font-style: italic">"These bullets are designed to push (be stable) through transonic velocities extending their effective range in the 300 Win Mag</span><span style="font-weight: bold"> ."</span>
-
<span style="font-weight: bold">How much performance enhancement can you get from these new 185's over the 190 VLD .?

In my .300wm I get great results form 190 VLD's. & thats all I been using .
Pushing 190's / 2925 vel. in a 11.24 5R

How fast & what is expected Vel. to push . & Accuracy vel. Node for the 185 OTM in the .300wm ? to outperform what I am already getting .
.</span>

 

[FmrChief]

Re: New Berger Juggernaut 185gr OTM Tactical Bullet

That sounds awesome. Great job with the VLD load. I shoot the hunting 190gr VLD myself and really like it. I just have to seat it almost touching the lands.

I wouldn't know if the 185gr OTM Tactical would beat it, but the VLD's are typically seated too long for most magazines. The Berger Tacticals are designed to be better handle longer jumps to the bore and can be seated to magazine length. I want to be able to load up 10 rounds next year when I try shooting F-class for the first time. I finally decided that I would much rather be able to focus more on factoring the wind than fumbling for the next round and manually loading each time.

Since you're shooting the .300wm, you don't have quite the same concerns as I do with the 30-06. My velocities may be as much as 300fps slower and put my rounds into the transonic earlier than the .300wm. I'm hoping the 185gr OTM will do better than my previous go-to round the Lapua D46, which is also very forgiving with seating depth. My accuracy round with the D46 has been at 2850fps.

It's looking like it will be Tuesday before I can get to the range. I will certainly post the results. Since my 30-06 is also a 5R 11.24, the performance should be equally valid for you as well.

Once my R700 .308Win finally comes back from re-barreling (next week?), I plan to test my old D46 load with this bullet too.

Good question.

Thanks.

 

[softcock]

Re: New Berger Juggernaut 185gr OTM Tactical Bullet

<span style="font-weight: bold">if you look & @ the Berger Advertisement/promotion in the Link on these 185's . I dont quite get what Berger is trying to sales-Spin with that statement ?</span>

... <span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-style: italic">" 185 gr Juggernaut OTM Tactical (designed as a transonic-stable option for the 300 Win Mag. "</span></span> .
-<span style="font-weight: bold">
I have my 300wm throated short to specifically do the VLD's . & the 190's are no slouch .
in .300wm 190's are the lightest bullet I would even consider shooting . unless it was ( maybe ) 180's for possible hunting .
What the hell would I want to lower the bullet weight in my .300mw ? . The 190 VLD's can be push a lot harder than 2900 vel . if I was to start pushing it.

I personally don't see the reason to even use these 185's in a .300wm . unless your were going to just jack-up the powder with these new 185's & make them scream on the Vel. . & that for me is not my goal with shooting the .300wm .
I would definitely give these new 185's a shot with Handloads for .308 or the 30-06 . but that is Not the way I want to run my .300wm .</span>
.
.

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Berger Juggernaut 185gr OTM Tactical Bullet

Have you shot your VLD's very far through transonic? At some DA's they perform poorly and will keyhole.

It sounds like Berger designed a bullet with this in mind, but a 185 with a BC in the .5's? 208 Amax's with a .648 G1, are VERY stable through subsonic (I've driven them to nearly 2300 yds. at 5500DA), so I guess I'm not seeing something here, especially since it is marketed at the WM.

John

 

[softcock]

Re: New Berger Juggernaut 185gr OTM Tactical Bullet

Ya you are pushing the envelope farther than I do with your .300wm .. I only push 1300 & 1500 yrd . for myself . & the 190 vld's are just hitting the wall & into the 1100 fps range of Vel. there @ 1500 yrd.

I guess that is there goal with the new 185's to take it past ( hitting the wall ) & let it keep going on out down-range stable to target in Subsonic Vel .
The 208's Do perform like a whole different animal @ 1500 compared to the 190 VLD's . & .300wm & 1500 yrd. with the the 190's is my Wall .
.