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New car purchases in June will have black box

KillShot

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Minuteman
May 25, 2010
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Tulsa, Oklahoma
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Beginning in June of 2011, all new cars manufactured and sold in the United States will be required to have a mandated black box device installed, which can be used to monitor several different physical and technical data points.

On May 24th, a report on the new regulatations to be implemented by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) next month expands the program that in February was just in a consideration phase.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is expected to issue new regulations next month, that will require a black box style data recorder be fitted in all new cars.

Similar in concept to the familiar black boxes used in commercial aircraft for decades, the boxes are expected to record information about speed, seat belt use and brake application in the final seconds leading up to an accident, the data can be retrieved for later analysis. – Dvice.com

The installation and use of these black boxes can have infinite possibilities for local, state, and federal governments to monitor and record data for a number of other revenue programs that are currently under consideration. In March, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) issued a proposal to institute a tax on mileage to help pay for the federal budget deficit. Additionally, local cities and counties can download information from these black boxes, and they can be used to issue driving citations after the fact in the case of speeding or not wearing a seat belt.

While the concept of installing a black box in new automobiles has several good points in assisting law enforcement and emergency services as to the location and circumstances of an accident or road emergency, policies currently underway by many municipalities and states show that public safety personnel are now being used more as revenue collectors than as first responders to incidents as they occur.

In addition, current mobile devices outside the automobile black box such as androids and tom-toms are being used by law enforcement to retrieve data on customer travel.

That’s a theoretical problem, a real problem is the fact that the data is being used to setup police revenue sources such as speed cameras. A Dutch firm has openly admitted that they use TomTom customer data to setup speed traps. So this anonymized data is actually being used to cost you money for something that isn’t actually dangerous as currently implemented (in other words speed limits aren’t actually a safety limit but an arbitrarily selected number). – blog.christopherburg.com

Selling the public on safety for new policies and provisions, while using the programs to create new revenue streams is becoming more the norm than simply isolated incidents. When the tax on cigarettes became enlarged under the guise of helping users stop the addiction, expanding the tax soon turned into the first concession by local legislatures when they needed new money for programs. Add to this, the creation of red-light and speed devices on local streets and highways to monitor safety quickly became massive revenue streams for municipalities.

With mandatory black boxes being installed in all new cars sold in the US starting next month, the public needs to be aware of the potential these devices can have as means to collect revenue for states and the federal government outside the reported use by the NHTSA as a safety device.</div></div>

Source - <span style="font-weight: bold">Examiner</span>
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

that will stop a lot of insurance fraud
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

Most cars already have them. I don't know when they started, but my first was a 06 SRT8 magnum.
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

won't be long before someone figures out how to 'blank out' the memory using a paper-clip, or something like that.

Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, right? Well, half-right, anyways.
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

Hooray, more personal information theft!


NHTSA can suck my dick
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

These are already in most cars anyway and have been for years. They to my knowledge are basically hack-proof because they are simply part of the circuitry. You would have to create some kind of a dummy box that emulated the box's outputs and replace the existing one.
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These are already in most cars anyway and have been for years. They to my knowledge are basically hack-proof because they are simply part of the circuitry. You would have to create some kind of a dummy box that emulated the box's outputs and replace the existing one. </div></div>
Yeah I thought cars already had something similar... Like recording and saving data from the last few moments before an airbag deployment. Probably not as advanced as this new model... but still!

New cars are worthless and ugly IMO anyways
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

Time for a good used car.
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

They have been on vehicles since the inception of air bags. I have seen some of the crash data that has come out of them on cars as old as 98. The data on all new cars and trucks are a form of LAN and all modules (some vehicles can have as many as 30 separate computers) "talk" to each on this data line.

There can be as many as 4 separate data lines of different speeds based on the importance of its information. Such as the need for high speed on power train and ABS and much less speed for lighting and radio functions as well as seat controls and entertainment systems.

Anyways the "data" that can now be stored in an airbag module (SIR) can include and not limited to.
Time of day, location of accident, angle up or down, deceleration information, sensor activation, roll force, location of seat (forward or aft), weight of passenger, seat belts buckled or not, engine speed, force of brake pedal, speeds of each wheel during incident, throttle angle, side impact deceleration or acceleration, how long vehicle has been driven, outside temp at startup, temp at time of accident, fuel level, any current, past, or pending codes for any module that could affect crash including radio volume, there is more but I don't want this to get to long.

All this information is constantly being recorded and saved into the module for a given amount of time and all old data is released until an incident. That data is now saved and would have to be physically damaged to erase.

You would have to smash it with a sledge as they are pretty tough as modules go and is usually in a pretty central location like under a seat or center console.
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They have been on vehicles since the inception of air bags. I have seen some of the crash data that has come out of them on cars as old as 98. The data on all new cars and trucks are a form of LAN and all modules (some vehicles can have as many as 30 separate computers) "talk" to each on this data line.

There can be as many as 4 separate data lines of different speeds based on the importance of its information. Such as the need for high speed on power train and ABS and much less speed for lighting and radio functions as well as seat controls and entertainment systems.

Anyways the "data" that can now be stored in an airbag module (SIR) can include and not limited to.
Time of day, location of accident, angle up or down, deceleration information, sensor activation, roll force, location of seat (forward or aft), weight of passenger, seat belts buckled or not, engine speed, force of brake pedal, speeds of each wheel during incident, throttle angle, side impact deceleration or acceleration, how long vehicle has been driven, outside temp at startup, temp at time of accident, fuel level, any current, past, or pending codes for any module that could affect crash including radio volume, there is more but I don't want this to get to long.

All this information is constantly being recorded and saved into the module for a given amount of time and all old data is released until an incident. That data is now saved and would have to be physically damaged to erase.

You would have to smash it with a sledge as they are pretty tough as modules go and is usually in a pretty central location like under a seat or center console.</div></div>


Is it something that say, exposure to a magnet, would be destroyed by?
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

Forgot to add. You really shouldn't be concerned about them they really are good to have in a crash. It does not lie and it is not partial. It just gives data from a crash. It is REALLY helpful when the 80 year old man runs over a little kid and says "the car went out of control and he was mashing down on the brake pedal as hard as he could but the thing just kept going? You end up finding out he hit the accelerator pedal instead of the brake.

Now if you are talking about an invasion of privacy you may want to look a little closer at OnStar. If I told you what can be done to your 2010 and newer GM vehicle, you my friend would shit a brick.
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They have been on vehicles since the inception of air bags. I have seen some of the crash data that has come out of them on cars as old as 98. The data on all new cars and trucks are a form of LAN and all modules (some vehicles can have as many as 30 separate computers) "talk" to each on this data line.

There can be as many as 4 separate data lines of different speeds based on the importance of its information. Such as the need for high speed on power train and ABS and much less speed for lighting and radio functions as well as seat controls and entertainment systems.

Anyways the "data" that can now be stored in an airbag module (SIR) can include and not limited to.
Time of day, location of accident, angle up or down, deceleration information, sensor activation, roll force, location of seat (forward or aft), weight of passenger, seat belts buckled or not, engine speed, force of brake pedal, speeds of each wheel during incident, throttle angle, side impact deceleration or acceleration, how long vehicle has been driven, outside temp at startup, temp at time of accident, fuel level, any current, past, or pending codes for any module that could affect crash including radio volume, there is more but I don't want this to get to long.

All this information is constantly being recorded and saved into the module for a given amount of time and all old data is released until an incident. That data is now saved and would have to be physically damaged to erase.

You would have to smash it with a sledge as they are pretty tough as modules go and is usually in a pretty central location like under a seat or center console.</div></div>


Is it something that say, exposure to a magnet, would be destroyed by?</div></div>
No. They are internally protected and grounded. If you remove it from the vehicle your airbags will not deploy. That will get you killed. Airbags save lives. I see cars and trucks towed in to my dealership that you would think there would be no way a person would have survived. Then you talk to the people driving and you will come to love ABS for keeping you from getting into an accident and the airbag for saving you when you do.
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

I'm wondering if it can be disabled or is it an integral part of the system? Bypassed?
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

It is part of the airbag system. Its one and only computer. To remove them no matter new or old will at a very minimum set warning lights on the dash and stop the air bags from being able to deploy when needed. On newer vehicles bypassing or disabling may cause errors or pulling down the data line causing all kinds of problems including no starts.
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

I'm a Jeep guy. I don't want the airbags anyway.
If I buy the farm just hose it out and sell it to someone else...

Really looking at a 2011 Rubicon Unlimited. I would want to disable the black box.
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

If they are that awesome and that infallible what was the year long bullshit with Toyota and stuck accelerators?


They either are or they are not....



Good luck
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

I believe these things are constantly recording and overwriting their memory and only saves the 5 seconds prior to an airbag event, or something that should have been an airbag event. The ones coming in June could be a different version though. The info could be gathered at the accident scene, but more than likely it will be done later at the impound lot after a search warrant is obtained.
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

"Those who would give up liberty in exchange for a little safety deserve neither."
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

Given the 4A incursions lately, what makes any of us believe the Gummint would even think it would need a search warrant? "Hey, boss, I gotta tickle in my ass about that data recovery!" "Hell, man, that's more than probable cause, go get it." "But, hey, wouldn't that violate the 4A?" "Fuck the 4A, everybody else is."
laugh.gif


tony
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If they are that awesome and that infallible what was the year long bullshit with Toyota and stuck accelerators?


They either are or they are not....



Good luck </div></div>
PM sent
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

The Occupant Restraint Controller (ORC)on a Rubicon is secured with four nuts to four studs on a stamped steel mounting bracket welded onto the top of the floor panel transmission tunnel between the two front seats beneath the floor console and rearward of the transmission gearshift mechanism in the passenger compartment of the vehicle.

JeepAirbagmodule.jpg
 
Re: New car purchases in June will have black box

I love these things. Every time stuff like this comes out, there are folks like me who move our savings accounts to the next level. Back when road speed and engine governers were all the rage, I bought a new truck with money made over a 6 month period. Helping folks out in truck stop parking lots paid well, over head was a few hand tools, transportation to an from, and a Tee Shirt that said Fuel System Specialist. The waiting list was always 5-6 deep from 0600 to 1600 every Saturday.

Bring on more high tech, it pays very, very well.