New video is up comparing the sound of the Sandman-S and Nomad-LT on a 14.5" 5.56 NATO.
Suppressors ***NEW*** Dead Air Nomad-LT vs. Sandman-S on 14.5" 5.56 NATO.
- Thread starter FuhQ
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So I know the video sound is nothing like being behind the rifle. What are your thoughts between the two on that particular weapon system? I have a Sandman-S still in jail, but hopefully soon in my possession. I originally bought it for my 300BLK, but since then I’ve built a few AR’s, including a 14.5” mid-length gas rifle that I went ahead and put the key-mo flash hider on. I hate to wait another year for the nomad. Just curious because to my bad hearing, the two sounded quite similar in your video. Thanks, and nice looking jeep!
The videos don't really do them justice, because I don't have professional sound equipment and all that stuff, nor can I afford it, I'm just doing these videos mostly for fun and entertainment, and not to be scientific (I'm only pointing that out because in another thread people were saying "get this" or "get that" or "get a B&K meter"...etc...). I was like, dude...I'm not not made of money. Pretty broke actually... LOL
My personal thoughts contradict most of the internet "experts" on certain things, because I have severe hearing damage from years of shooting unsuppressed without ear plugs, and it has caused severe tinnitus. That being said, it has caused some very weird things with my hearing. For example... I can hear animals and tiny small noises VERY far away...Like you would expect a dog or deer to hear, but a human to not be able to. But, then I can completely fade-out when someone is talking directly to me face-to-face.
That being said, I do hear VERY sharp sounds VERY painfully and distinctly. So, take my opinions on that however you will.Some internet folks claim the Sandman-S is not hearing safe on supersonic cartridges, especially AR's with port-pop. In my experiences, the Sandman-S is not piercing enough (in an open-air environment) to be too damaging, if at all, on a 5.56 NATO cartridge AR. Some will argue that it's NOT hearing safe, but this is just my personal opinion, through my own ears... So, test it yourself, and adjust accordingly. Anything larger than a 6.5 Grendel through the Sandman-S, you will probably want to still use ear pro. While it definitely does a good job taming-down the noise on my R700 22" .260 Rem, to a point where I would feel safe hunting with it and only shooting once, maybe twice, without ear pro. But at the range, or multiple shots...I would still wear protection.
For the Nomad-L & LT cans... They are just damn impressive. Seriously. If you've never heard one in person, find someone or a range that has one, that will let you demo it. It's ridiculous on supersonics, and absolutely ludicrous on subsonics, especially bolt-action subsonics. On the 5.56 NATO, and even on my .260 Rem, even at the range and multiple shots in a row, I find the Nomad-LT to be absolutely hearing safe on them with supersonic ammo. Once again, that's personal preference, but If I had to SWAG it, I would say they're probably in the upper 120's to mid-130's on 5.56 and larger supersonic cartridges. Definitely within the OSHA hearing safe range of 140 DB.
Thanks for the info. I guess I’ll look into the Nomad a little more while I wait for my Sandman to get approved.
Best time to start your paperwork was yesterday... Yesterday is always the answer to that one. LOL
I bought my first 3 at once, then another one 3 months later, then another one a month later. Haha I haven't bought one in a while. Once I get my truck sold, or something else I don't use anymore sold, then I'll probably buy another one or 2 to get the ball rolling on those.
Imo more people should be buying the Nomad over the Sandman S. Unless you are really doing very high firing schedules/lots of mag dumps the nomad 30 is plenty durable and quieter on everything. Plus you aren't tied to a mounting system that nearly weighs the same as a Nomad ti. Nomad Ti is quieter than the Nomad 30. If you are looking for a 300 blk can that you don't plan on mag dumping supers with I would look at the Nomad Ti.
The Sandman-S is not hearing safe on a 14.5 AR, wear ear pro. Most cans won't truly be hearing safe on AR's. Just because your ears aren't ringing doesn't mean you aren't damaging them. Hearing damage is cumulative.
Incase anyone was wondering the rifle's specs...
14.5” 5.56 custom - JMac Customs lower, Rainier Arms Forged upper, Rise Armament LPK, Rainier Arms Match-Grade M16 BCG, Rainier Arms Enhanced Bolt, AXTS Raptor charging handle, Rainier Arms Mountain Series 14.5" 1/7 twist barrel w/ Dead Air KeyMount Brake, Rainier Arms gas block (pinned), Rainier Arms stainless gas tube, Rainier Arms Force 15" handguard, ERGO Suregrip, Magpul ACS-L stock, Aero Enhanced tube & flat-wire spring, Noveske H2 buffer, Rise Armament 434 3.5 lbs. trigger, KNS pins, Vortex Spitfire 3x Prism optic (fixed power), Dead Air Nomad-LT w/ Dead Air thermal wrap.
14.5” 5.56 custom - JMac Customs lower, Rainier Arms Forged upper, Rise Armament LPK, Rainier Arms Match-Grade M16 BCG, Rainier Arms Enhanced Bolt, AXTS Raptor charging handle, Rainier Arms Mountain Series 14.5" 1/7 twist barrel w/ Dead Air KeyMount Brake, Rainier Arms gas block (pinned), Rainier Arms stainless gas tube, Rainier Arms Force 15" handguard, ERGO Suregrip, Magpul ACS-L stock, Aero Enhanced tube & flat-wire spring, Noveske H2 buffer, Rise Armament 434 3.5 lbs. trigger, KNS pins, Vortex Spitfire 3x Prism optic (fixed power), Dead Air Nomad-LT w/ Dead Air thermal wrap.
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Anyone else out there with a Nomad-L or LT and done any testing comparing them to the Sandman cans? Just curious to hear yall's thoughts as well.
I have a Nomad and Nomad L. Both are quieter than their Sandman counterparts.
The Nomad L is much quieter than the Sandman L. Honestly the Sandman L should be phased out at this point. Thing is stupid heavy and basically sounds like a Nomad 30. Actually on semi autos the Nomad 30 sounds a bit more pleasant with less back pressure imo.
Back in October last year, I won a contest on Instagram with Dead Air, where I won a free suppressor cover of my choice. Well, at that time, I didn't own any suppressors. So I chose one for the Nomad-30/Nomad-Ti...becasue I was planning on getting a Nomad-30 for my first .30 cal suppressor. Then, in December, they dropped the Nomad-LT, and I ended up getting it, instead. So, now I have a $100+ suppressor cover that won't fit anything I have. So, I think my next can will be a Nomad-30 to run on my 6.5 Grendel and 14.5" 5.56, and use my regular (black) Sandman-S on my 7.5" 5.56 pistol. My Mil-Contract (FDE) Sandman-S will reside on my .300 BLK because it matches, and for some reason that barrel really prefers the weight of that can for accuracy and groups...So, that's its home. The Nomad-LT will just be swapped-around on the bolt-actions and hunting rifles because it's lightweight and really quiet.
The Nomad has more back pressure than the Sandman S but if you can adjust for it the Nomad sounds better to me. It's not crazy or excessive but there is more. The Nomad Ti is quieter on 300 blk than the Nomad 30.
If you have any 9mm stuff the Wolfman also sounds fantastic on 300 blk. Better than the Nomad 30 but not as good as the L.
Nope, only 1 9mm pistol, and that's because when I converted it, 9mm was cheap and everywhere. It was originally a Glock 31C .357 Sig. But good luck finding ammo for it at decent prices. Ironically, when SHTF on ammo last year, I could still find .357 Sig plinking ammo for about $0.70 a round when 9mm was pushing $1.15 each. So I stocked-up pretty good on .357 Sig. Then during all the crap, I found a half-case (500) of Federal 9mm 147 Subs for $249, and bought it. Haven't even shot any pistols lately other than my .22LR converted 1911.
So, no, I don't have a use for a Wolfman, but the durability of the new Primal really strikes my interest, since it's rated up to .338 Lapua. You could just stick a 9mm end cap on it, and run it on .350 Legend, and it would probably be a beast with low backpressure/gassing.
Sorry, got distracted watching football, but yeah, I agree, the Sandman-L is kind of "outdated" these days, especially with the Nomad-L being F/A rated and no minimum barrel length restrictions, but still weighing LESS than, and having more suppression and internal volume, than the SM-L... But, I guess some folks might still be into that niche' market.
Personally, I think the Sandman-Ti is a great can, and would be a much bigger seller, if they would thread the back of it 1.375x24 for mounting options. I've told Rich and Mike that over and over again on their IG story questions, but I guess they don't seem too keen on it, since they also have the Nomad-Ti and Nomad-LT now...
Oh well. If they threaded the back, and kept it around the $699 price point, I'd buy a Sandman-Ti for a dedicated can on my main deer rifle. Lightweight, strong, durable, and able to accept KeyMo/KeyMount would be awesome. I think the biggest selling point for it, would be the price, compared to the Nomad-Ti and LT. I mean $699 (S-Ti) vs. $999 (N-Ti) and $1099 (N-LT)... For people getting into suppressors or wanting one mainly for hunting, that $699 price point saving $300-400 over the competition has its place in the lineup. Just my opinion.
I just wanted to tag Todd @Mageever so Dead Air would see this. I have some good ideas, shoot me a DM on IG and we'll talk more about them. I have several other new suppressor ideas if yall awesome folks at Dead Air are interested.
Does anyone else think a 1.375x24 threaded Sandman-Ti for $699 would be a good idea? Thoughts?
Tbh no, it's longer, heavier and has more back pressure than the Nomad Ti while offering no suppression benefits. The Nomad Ti will be better on basically everything.
I'm a firm believer of buy once cry once. Just save up for a couple more weeks/months. I mean you can already find the Nomad Ti for $800-900 on gunbroker. There is no way I'd make a compromise for even a $200 price difference and that 9 months of waiting. You need yhm prices for that imo.
I would be much more interested in direct taper mount thread Sandman. Lower profile brake/flash hider than the Xeno(it's too long and still too heavy compared to competitors) . You could have Sandman-S like performance in a <6" can with substantial weight reduction. But I'd like to see the Sandman get a refresh with coaxial baffles and larger diameter. Maybe 1.625-1.725 whatever they feel optimizes it.
I'm seeing Nomad-Ti for $999 and Nomad-LT for $1099... That $300-400 difference would cover a stamp, trust, and local taxes... I will agree 100% that the Nomad-Ti and Nomad-LT are better in literally every way, but saving $300-400 over those 2 options is pretty significant for folks who are just getting into the NFA game.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/903877676
$839, free shipping, A+ seller with 2400 feedback.
I've seen them for less. Also if you call around local gun shops you might find an sot that would do a cost from rsr + $50 ish cash purchase. I've bought many suppressors that way.
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So, what if they dropped the price to $599 and included just the 5/8x24 DT mount, but still threaded the back 1.375x24 for mounting options? That would be YHM R20 prices, and would be a good starter can...
If people are interested I guess. It's not for me and I doubt they would price it at that. I think they stopped making it anyway, it's not on their website anymore. It's heavier than a standard Nomad with pretty much no benefit and more backpressure. There are Nomads on GB for $735 and I've seen them lower. There is a mil contract Sandman-S on there for $679 buy it now atm.
I think you just described the Energetic Vox-S. Add a taper mount adapter from Ecco Machine or Liberty Precision and you’re in business.
My biggest thing is that I'd rather end up with or recommend a suppressor that is more versatile and better everywhere. I know many people that have regretful suppressor purchases, myself included. So a starter can that might end up just not being used much in the future just doesn't appeal to me to recommend or own. You're already spending 6-800 plus a long wait and a tax stamp. I just think it's better to save up and get something great that will remain great on a multitude of hosts.
Ehh kind of.
But I'm thinking more larger od, coaxial, taper mount welded into can, similar or less backpressure than Nomad Ti. I would think you would have performance that falls between the sandman s and Nomad but in a package that is under 6" and much lighter than the Sandman S.
As far as the mount basically a short single or dual port brake, comp or flash hider lh thread. Similar to the cgs prototype.
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I agree completely, just saying that newbies are going to see 3 digit totals vs. 4 digit totals, and be more likely to purchase the cheaper option for the first time, until they learn more about cans, and why some of them are worth more than others. I've noticed (not just with guns and suppressors, but everything), it seems like people subconsciously get turned-off when they see 4-digit numbers in front of them, compared to smaller numbers. For example, people see $9.99 instead of $10.00 and they think it's a better deal. They see their OTD total being $900 vs. $1,000, and subconsciously they are more likely to swipe that card for $900 vs. $1,000.
If suppressors didn't require a $200 tax stamp and a wait of 6-8 months, then sure, maybe I'm shopping to hit a price point. And if my aunt had nuts, she'd be my uncle.
Considering the overall expense of this activity (like making a four-figure investment in muzzle devices), a few hundred extra to get the optimum suppressor is a no-brainer.
Considering the overall expense of this activity (like making a four-figure investment in muzzle devices), a few hundred extra to get the optimum suppressor is a no-brainer.
Yes, we see it this way, but you know that newbs don't... Because they don't understand why things cost what they do... I'm saying look at it from their standpoint. I think it is a good entry-level Ti can...
As currently setup, here’s my Nomad-LT.
Keep in mind, the Nomad-LT is 12.6 oz. by itself. The KeyMo device weighs 8 oz. Meaning the thick heavy-duty Dead Air thermal wrap weighs 4 oz… Still extremely lightweight for this setup… You don’t even really notice it on the end of your gun, other than the length.
Keep in mind, the Nomad-LT is 12.6 oz. by itself. The KeyMo device weighs 8 oz. Meaning the thick heavy-duty Dead Air thermal wrap weighs 4 oz… Still extremely lightweight for this setup… You don’t even really notice it on the end of your gun, other than the length.
If I'm home this weekend, I'll load up some more Nosler 140 RDF's for the .260 Remington, and get some more footage from different angles, and will do a sound comparison of the Sandman-S vs. the Nomad-LT. It will be VERY noticeable on a bolt-action without any port noise.
Well, I ended up going out of town so, no new videos... I'll see if I have anything stored up for a rainy day that I can upload...
Since this is 5.56 and Sandman-S related...
New video is up comparing a piston rifle vs. a DI rifle to see if there's any noticeable volume or sound differences.
New video is up comparing a piston rifle vs. a DI rifle to see if there's any noticeable volume or sound differences.
Here's a few of the Sandman-S on the 7.5" Saint with the 1" KVP barrel extension.
I learned years ago when working on Longbow/Recurve silencing projects that there was a time when the audio of smartphone videos was somewhat representative of actual differences when comparing loudness but that time has long since passed because now?...(and for many years back)...the audio part of smartphone video is operating from enhanced software that both amplifies low decibel sounds while suppressing loud decibel sounds so the only real way to demonstrate differences in volume via a smartphone vid?...is to incorporate a "Decimeter" so folks can see the difference decibel wise because for years now they can not "Hear" the true difference over smartphone vids.
Maybe someone should make a video app that also includes a decibel meter on the screen (where you can move it around where you want it on the screen), so while you're recording, you can see the peaks, and decibel averages while shooting. That would be really cool.
Shop the app store...you never know what software engineers might have put out recently....I'm pretty sure they already offer up decimeter apps so if ya have access to two smartphones?...you got it covered.
Just a heads-up, a decimeter is not the proper name for it. A decimeter is a unit of length measurement. Proper names for it are (SPL) Sound Pressure Level meter, Sound Level meter, Decibel (dB) meter, Noise meter or Noise dosimeter.
My old phone is decent, but needs a battery and won't stay charged for any real amount of time. I do need to upgrade my current phone, which I might do very soon. If I do, I will be utilizing both devices and learning how to overlay the footage. I might get a GoPro or target camera setup, so I can use that footage as well, and integrate it. But all these things cost money, which is kinda tight right now...Especially in the Brandon economy...
The dynamic range of even suppressed gunshots is so wide that you don’t want to attempt to record without some clipping / limiting to bring it up to a level that will be useful. I use 32 bit audio recorders for work because of this (video games these days). Some of the consumer stuff is higher quality, such as the Rode iPhone mic setup. Depends on how much you want to spend on it.
The way humans and microphones and electronics hear stuff is really different, when going for subjectively pleasing sounds anyway.
If you want some more professional audio recording stuff, pm me and I can help you choose.
The way humans and microphones and electronics hear stuff is really different, when going for subjectively pleasing sounds anyway.
If you want some more professional audio recording stuff, pm me and I can help you choose.
Thanks, will do.
Got the call today… After 13 months, my Dead Air Sandman-S MIL-Contract FDE stamp came in.
Luckily we weren’t working today, so I was able to go up to range and pick it up.
Luckily we weren’t working today, so I was able to go up to range and pick it up.
I have not tried either. Wish I could help. I never bought them as I saw them as “gimmicky” (my opinion). Wipes only work with FMJ’s, and with that can, I pretty much only use JHP bullets. And the EBrake… Well, I figured the Nomad-LT was already long enough.
Fair enough. I was thinking of getting the wipe cap and using that with some subsonic coated or plated 30 cal bullets. I bought a piece of crap 308 can 23 years ago that is so hearing un-safe it's not even funny. It left such a sour taste in my mouth that I'm just NOW getting a new 308 can. I want ultimate suppression, so I opted for the Nomad L and I'm already thinking about making it quieter even though it's in jail.
That old can must have been made by Kevin Brittingham (AAC & Q) if it’s that loud…
I wouldn’t mind trying the wipe cap on one of my Sandman-S cans, as those typically only get shot with FMJ/TMJ and plated bullets.BTW, you're obviously a Dead Air fan. You KNOW you want to try the gimmicks....
That sounds impressively bad…
New video is up with the freshly suppressed Springfield Armory Saint Victor 7.5" 5.56 pistol...
Maybe I can help a little, as I added an E-brake to my Dead Air Sandman S. I haven't really paid attention to what effect it has on sound signature. For me the benefits are that it seems to make recoil super flat. Staying on target for follow up shots is ridiculously easy. And it also seems to reduce back pressure - which is an issue for me since I shoot lefty.
Additional weight and length seem to be non-issues. I generally run the suppressor on my 10.5" and 11.5" uppers and they just balance really nicely.
Additional weight and length seem to be non-issues. I generally run the suppressor on my 10.5" and 11.5" uppers and they just balance really nicely.
How would something on the front of the suppressor...after all the gas has travelled through every baffle and out the end of the full suppressor...Help with reducing back pressure in the can?
Well, the e=brake attaches before the end cap, so the gas isn't "out the end of the suppressor" when it passes through the e-brake. And surely some gas escapes from the holes of the e-brake. Presumably, that's gas that would other wise blow back into the chamber.
All I know is that it seems to reduce gas to the face.
And I'm not the only one who thinks so. See:
www.ar15.com
But maybe it's my imagination. However, I am more sensitive than most people because I shoot lefty, so my face is right by the open chamber. And I shoot 10.5 and 11.5" rifles, which also have a fair amount of blowback.
In any event, since I put an E-brake on my Sandman, it's stayed on, so to me it was worth the price.
All I know is that it seems to reduce gas to the face.
And I'm not the only one who thinks so. See:
My initial impressions of the Dead Air E Brake - AR15.COM
Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.
www.ar15.com But maybe it's my imagination. However, I am more sensitive than most people because I shoot lefty, so my face is right by the open chamber. And I shoot 10.5 and 11.5" rifles, which also have a fair amount of blowback.
In any event, since I put an E-brake on my Sandman, it's stayed on, so to me it was worth the price.
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