F T/R Competition New F TR Rig??

[Aquatic_Robotic]

I own 2 very nice 308's, but they are 20" and 22" barreled and built for tactical matches and firing suppressed. One set up for 175's on Trued Rem 700 action and does well at 1000. The other is on Badger 2008 action and set up for 168's and I have not shot it at 1000. Weighed them both this morning and I am not sure either will make weight in F TR. To make a long story short, I decided to not to change either of those rifles to make them "fit" F TR. I found a DEAL on a Savage 12 F TR in 308 and bought it. Should get it next week. Never owned a Savage, but have heard good things about them here and other forums.

Anything I need to know about specifically about the Savage that might not be obvious, would be helpful??

Now that the rifle things is behind me, I have a number of scope choices to mount on it. I heard don't shoot FFP scope in F Class?? WELL ?? This is what I can pull off other rifles or have sitting in safe that I can and mount up on the Savage. Opinions please, qualified by reasoning and experience is always helpful??

S&B PMII 5-25x56 P4f mil/mil
S&B PMII 5-25x56 P4f moa/mil
S&B PMII 4-16x56 P4f mil/mil
Leupold Mark 4 6-25x50 mil dot
Leupold Mark 4 6-20x50 TMR
Leupold Mark 4 8-25-50 ml dot

Going to get a dedicated F TR bipod as well. So many to choose from, but I would like to buy just once and be able to move from rifle to rifle if needed??

I am competitive in nature, so I am sure if the group I shoot this first match with is GTG, I'll participate in the sport. Recent car wreck messed my back up even more than it was and just can't get into positions to shoot tactical matches any more, I can shoot prone for extended periods of time and I hope F Class F TR fills my need to compete.

Thanks for your help

 

[damoncali]

If you've got a new rifle just for f class, you ought to get a new scope just for f class. You'll want higher magnification than the ones you've got. If you're cheap, a fixed power sightron or weaver 36x will do the job. Ideally, a variable that goes up to 40 or 50x (or more - the March 60x and 80x look fantastic - wish I could afford one) is what you want. There is no advantage to using FFP in F class - you can see the rings with enough magnification.

 

[XTR]

The first thing you need to know about that Savage is that if you aren't winning "it ain't the rifle". There are several members of the US F-TR team that shoot Savage actions. (albiet in other stocks, and the barrels have been replaced, but barrels are a consumable anyway) The only comment I've ever heard from guys with factory Savage FTR rifles is that some of them come from the factory with a short throat.

To start with you can get out there with what you have. Take which ever of your 25s has the smallest aiming point and MOA turrets. The rings on the targets are effectively ½ MOA each, it's way easier than trying to covert mils in your head when you dial.

With a 308 you need between 29 and 38 MOA of come up from your 1000 yard zero. The actual come up will depend on the bullet you choose and how hard you push it. (175SMKs at 2600 are about 38MOA if I remember from a few yrs back, 185 Bergers at 2800 are closer to 29MOA, all of course depending on elevation and temperature). If you get the scope mounted and you don't have enough elevation left you will need to get a different rail. I think those scoped mentiond have a ton of elevation so it should not be a problem. In some of the high magnification target scopes you can run really close.

There is wisdom in the comment to buy a dedicated scope, but see how you like it (you will) then look for either a Sightron or a Nightforce with a max magnification of 32x or greater. There are others but they are more expensive. If you want to go the March route, or the Schmidt and Bender route with their 50X offering (my shooting companion at Raton this yr got to try someone's rifle with a S&B on it, says it was the best glass he's ever seen, and he's shooting a March) There is also a new target offering coming from Leupy in the next few months.

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

Good stuff. I think I'll use the Leupold 6-20x50 with the TMR reticle for the first couple matches. The match is 300, 500 and 600 yards. I should be able to make out the rings at 600 with this scope. I have plans to practice a little before the match and this will let me know if it will work or not. If it won't do what I need it to, I'll probably pony up and get another scope dedicated for F TR.

Thanks for the input.

 

[haroldwilson]

That's a great gun. I am shooting one. If you need a scope base for it, Ken Farrell has nice scope bases for the Savage Target action in aluminum and steel. You want a scope base with no recoil lug as the action is closed top. He has flat and sloped bases. I am running 20 minute sloped base.

The throat is short on the factory barrel for running 185's or heavier bullets. I ran 185's in mine with PP2000MR. I could get plenty of that powder in it to get velocity, but the bullet was seated pretty far in the case to where the boat tail was below the neck shoulder junction. You can have the factory barrel throated out longer and be good to go with heavier bullets. That said, it shot them very accurately seated deep. I ended up putting a Kreiger on mine.

There are many bipods to choose from. I am running the Duplin and like it a lot. It, along with the Center Shot, are two of the lighter bipods available. I am running a Nightforce 12-42 NXS with steel base and steel rings and a heavier than factory barrel. With the Duplin bipod, I am about 4 oz under weight.

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

Thanks Harold. Very good info. I will get the rifle next week, and if there is not a 20 MOA rail local, I'll order from Ken. I have one of his rails on another rifle. I've got some 175 SMK's loaded that I am going to try. They are not real hot, but should get good velocity as they were loaded for a 22" barrel and the Savage has a 30" barrel. I also have some Berger 185 VLD's I shoot in my 300 WSM and may try loading some of those if the Savage does not like the 175 SMK's.

Not sure on bipod yet, but I have looked at the two you mentioned, as well as another couple.

I am a S&B fan, so I have also been looking at the PMII/P 12-50x56 in SFP 1/8 MOA turrets.

Thanks again.

 

[haroldwilson]

I would really like to look through one of those sometime. Good luck with the rifle. They are shooters.

 

[anon]

I put one of Murphy Precision's bead blasted stainless bases on my 223 Savage F/TR.

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

Ok I have stuff coming to complete this rig.

Traded into this scope Nightforce NXS 12-42x56 with NP-R1 reticle

EGW 20 MOA steel rail

What height rings are going to work best with this rifle, rail and scope setup? I have Warne 30MM mediums, ARMS 30 mm quick throw lever highs, and immediate access to Leupold mark 4 30mm meds or highs

Not sure about bipods or bags yet. Once I get the rifle rigged with scoped, then I will shoot it with what I have and decide on other items I will need.

Rifle came out of the box with 8 oz trigger set. Moderate bolt action locked up trigger as many said it might. Set trigger on 1.5 lbs and no problems with working bolt and locking up trigger. I am sure there will be a setting somewhere between the two settings that will work just fine.

Thanks for the input and I cant wait to get this rigged and try some stuff I already have loaded in 308. I will be shooting mid range at 300, 500, and 600 yards to start. I am hoping my 175 SMK loads work in this rifle. They are pushing 2600 out of a 20" barrel and very accurate.

 

[MoBoost]

Medium rings should work. You should have a level and pay attention to it.
Sinclair F-Class bipod is what most people use and very reasonably priced (as a matter of fact on sale right now). Duplin is extremely nice and worth the extra.
I've had very good luck with 155 Palma bullets (tipped) at both mid and long range F-class.
Some guys swear by 185 Hybrids - and it's hard to argue when they beat you

 

[savageshooter86]

good luck with the 175s. Mine hated them. Wasted 300 bullets trying to get a load. Tried a handful of Berger 168 hybrids and 185 LRBT and showed very good results instantly.

I have a EGW 20 MOA base on mine and Burris Sig Z rings(High) and my scope barely clears the barrel. I am running a Sightron SIII 10-50x scope

Luckily have not had any trigger issues on mine and it is whatever it is set at from the factory

I am running a Duplin bipod and love it. Sent my Sinclair back and got my $$ and ordered the Duplin

I believe my rifle is a Palma reamer. Short throat and 342 fired case neck

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

Thanks for the help.

I will wait until I receive the scope to be sure of ring height, but leaning towards Leupold Mark 4's. I guess I really need to put all the components on the scale and weigh things before I make too many more decisions. I am guessing no one is having issues making weight with the Savage Model 12 F TR??

Found a good buy on a Duplin here on the Hide. I have levels on my tactical guns so I can just rob one for now. Good point and I may or may not have thought about it the first time out.

I have 30 cal 168 SMK's, 175 SMK's, and picked up some Berger 185 VLD/s to try in my 300 WSM. Based on what others are loading in their Savage Model 12 F TR's, I would like to try what I already have, unless it just isn't going to work. Please keep in mind that I will be going out to 600 max to begin with.

Can't wait to get all the parts in and rifle rigged and shoot this thing. Like a kid with Christmas approaching!!

Thanks again

 

[LRRifleman]

Recent car wreck messed my back up even more than it was and just can't get into positions to shoot tactical matches any more, I can shoot prone for extended periods of time and I hope F Class F TR fills my need to compete.

Thanks for your help[/QUOTE]

Sorry to hear about the accident injuries, but real glad you have found a niche to continue shooting. I am in a comparable boat. I am using a Versa pod on my AR platform match rifle that I can swap out with the. 308 I am trying to build for 1000 yards. Using a cheap BSA Platinum on the AR and it is working well and holding up. Putting an older Weaver T16 for the thousand yard gun.

Good luck and glad to see you are staying with the sport.

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

I got it together, but still don't have my bipod yet. Apparently USPS has lost the envelope containing the money order I bought from them.

Savage Model 12 F TR
NF 12-42x56 NP R1 reticle
EGW 20MOA rail
Leupold rings



I had an hour to get out to the range before dark today and tried the loads I have for my other 308's. Two were not too good, but one showed promise. The one that showed promise was running 175 SMK's. 168 SMK's and the lighter load with 175 SMK's it did not like. Bottom group 7 rounds and the other two groups were 5 rounds. Both dot groups were 175 SMK's,but different loads. Group to the top right 168 SMK's. Bottom group was fired after only two rounds went through rifle to zero. I also patched out the barrel and let it cool between shots on this group. Will try them all again next time out just to be sure.



Good start and the rifle is very easy to shoot. If I can get the bipod on it and some more trigger time, I plan to shoot my first match in January. If this 175 SMK load does not hold up, not sure what I will try.

Thanks for the help and information shared here.

 

[MoBoost]

Don't waste time with 168 SMKs. They were not designed to go the distance - and even though some people just "swear" by them - I've never see them win anything.

You can always try 185s Hybrids, 178AMax or even 155 Palmas/Hybrids/Scenars.

 

[gstaylorg]

168 SMKs will shoot lights out in many guns out to 600 yd. It's past 800 yd or so where the poor boattail design starts to adversely affect their performance. The 175s should also work well out to 600 yd.

Something else to consider is what you are going to do if you really get hooked shooting midrange F-TR and decide to try LR (800-1000 yd) F-TR matches. If you think that might be a possibility, it's probably easier and less expensive to to choose a load for starting out to 600 yd that will also work well at longer range if you decide to go that route. That way, you don't have to start all over again with load development. Your 175 SMKs will work for both MR and LR, but you probably want the MV somewhere in the 2750 to 2800 fps range to keep those well above trans-sonic [~ Mach 1.2] at 1000 yd. That MV shouldn't be any issue with the Savage 12 F-TR/30" barrel. Other [much better] alternatives would be Berger 185 Juggernauts, 168 Hybrid, or 175 Tactical bullet. All are relatively forgiving to load and have much better BCs than SMKs for improved wind resistance at either mid or long range. Your 168s or 175s will do fine out to 600 yd, but neither one has nearly the ballistic advantages that can be had with some of the newer Berger designs. Choosing a bullet now that will work well at 1000 yd will not cause any issues whatsoever at shorter range when you're first starting out, but it might save you from having to develop a new LR load from scratch later.

FWIW - a friend of mine [Diego Ted] got the Savage 12 F-TR about 8 months ago for F-TR comps, and he had a few issues getting it to shoot the way he wanted. Someone was asking similar questions on another forum recently and he posted links to a couple threads describing what he went through to get his shooting well. Here is the link if you're interested (2nd post on the page):

Some Expert Advice needed

Best of luck with it, F-TR is a lot of fun.

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

Thanks guys good advise on working a load to go 1000, just in case. That makes sense to work up a load that will do both mid range and long range.

I have some 185 Berger VLD's for my 300 WSM hunting rifle. I may give them a try if the 175 SMK's just don't pan out. I have about 150 left. Picked up some more Varget and also some 8208 XBR at a local gun show today. Surprisingly two different vendors had lots of powder . Also picked up a few more pounds H4350 as well for my 6.5x47.

I have buddy that swears by the 8208 XBR but I have never loaded any. Anyone here using it in their 308? Little faster than Varget and he says it's very temperature stable.

Thanks again for the helpful into and tips.

 

[skiutah02]

New here, but just posted about my 1st load development using 155 SMK and 8208XBR here in a Savage 12FTR in 308. Maybe this helps.
Topic: Got to try my FT/R out - Savage FT/R Review