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New guy showing my best group ever.

G

Garvey

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 1, 2010
1,892
5,878
Melissa, Texas
#1
I'm glad to be here. I am trying to learn as much about long range shooting as possible and this looks like the best place for me.

I've been hand loading for .308 and .22-250 for the last year. I am going on a prarie dog hunt in the Texas panhandle this June. I was doing some experimenting on finding the best load for my .22-250.

This is at 200 yards with a 55 gr. Sierra Game King HPBT. It measured .43" center- to-center.

22-250groupjpg.jpg


The rifle is a Savage model 12 with no mods...YET!
 
#2
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

Welcome, good shooting. I am not trying to bust your chop, but is that only a 3 round group? You need at least 5 rounds to call it a group. Just in case you are not aware of the rule.
 
#3
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

I wasn't aware of that. I just remembered a quote from someone. "3 rounds tests the load, 4 rounds tests the rifle, 5 rounds tests the shooter." If a 5 shot group is the standard on Snipers Hide that is what I will use in the future.
 
#7
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

Nice group.

Once you find where you think you need to be, then it's five shot groups.

Then it has to be repeatable.....
 
#9
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice group.

Once you find where you think you need to be, then it's five shot groups.

Then it has to be repeatable..... </div></div>

I agree 100% And it has to be repeatable at various ranges.

My only purpose for 3 shot groups is load testing at 200 yards. Any other group I shoot is 5 or more. I didn't know it was a sin on this Forum. I've now read lowlight's post and will adhere to it without objection. I know not knowing the law is no excuse for breaking it. All I can say is it won't happen again. I've got good loads developed for my .22-250 and my .308 with 168 gr SMK. In the near future I will be sending them both to 500 yards. I will post those pics with 5 shot groups.

Please bear with the FNG!
 
#12
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice group.

Once you find where you think you need to be, then it's five shot groups.

Then it has to be repeatable..... </div></div>

Never got all the hype on 5 shot groups in a varmint/hunting rifle. I've never shot more than 3 shots at an animal.
 
#13
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

Honestly, it's usually the first shot that really matters. I understand 5 and 10 shot groups in competitions. Personally, in more expensive calibers, I like shooting three. LOL Saves me 8-10 bucks.
 
#14
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ActionPhyto69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... the first shot that really matters..... </div></div>

exactly

while the tribe may get all huffy about 3 shot groups stuff them.

The training is about getting the first one in the right place and if it isn't getting the second down the range on target fast. What have groups got to do with anything, this isn't the benchrest forum?

so another way of looking at the target (tongue in cheek!!!) is that he missed three times

I know, I know but you get the point

A
 
#15
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

I am a new user as of the last 5 minutes, so bare with me cause I know just about nothing of the rules for this sight. In typical military terms 3 rounds is definitly considered a group, and a 4th for confermation, but not in most sniper competitions from what i understand. That being said, next time 2 more for good measure.
That is a very tight group. For 200 yrds it is a sub .25moa group, well under the typical requirements of a sub 1moa to be considered a sniper rifle. When I was in sniper school most of my groups were typically about .5moa with the m40a3. So anyways, I would suggest assuming there was no wind that day, that you make the adjustments of up .25moa and right .5moa assuming that grid you are using is .5" or 1 cm and you were 200 yrds from the target. That way no body tells you you missed the target 3 times, lol!
 
#16
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

I use these forums and others to help find out exactly how some of these guns shoot to help me purchase, but from past searching I hardly ever seen people post up 5 shot groups out past 200 yards. I know some do, but where are they all at? And most of the time they are only going to show their best groups anyway. When I was looking for a 338lm round I wanted to buy something without breaking the bank and ended up buying the Armalite ar-30. But from forums and magazines alike I couldn't find hardly any 5 shot groups and if they were they wasn't past 100 yards. So I posted what info I had gathered to help others. I just see a bunch of contradictions with this whole group thing. But obey or get banned.............lol
 
#17
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

5 shot groups are for ego only no clue why people what it posted. as stated above only the first shot matters. in the real world more than one shot has consequenses depending on if your military or leo, hunting one shot is usually all you get. competition if you fire more than one round on a target you either loose time or get hit with penalties.

three shot groups tell me all I need to know

keep shooting and have fun brother, dont sweat all the bs on here sometimes
 
#20
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrbet83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How far off the lands did you seat the rounds?

</div></div>

Sorry I can't tell you cuz I dont know. I'm over the printed O.A.L in the Sierra manual by a little. I don't have the book in front of me right now. If I'm remembering correctly my O.A.L. is 2.360" I tried 3 powders that day at 3 powder weights and 3 rounds per group for a total of 27 rounds. I had some groups that were 1 MOA and some that were 1/2 MOA.

That .43" group was the last of the day and I did no cleaning between each group. Which proves to me for the second time that a barrel that is a little fouled is more accurate than a squeeky clean one. The very same thing happened with my .308
 
#21
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: landerSS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a new user as of the last 5 minutes, so bare with me cause I know just about nothing of the rules for this sight. In typical military terms 3 rounds is definitly considered a group, and a 4th for confermation, but not in most sniper competitions from what i understand. That being said, next time 2 more for good measure.
That is a very tight group. For 200 yrds it is a sub .25moa group, well under the typical requirements of a sub 1moa to be considered a sniper rifle. When I was in sniper school most of my groups were typically about .5moa with the m40a3. So anyways, I would suggest assuming there was no wind that day, that you make the adjustments of up .25moa and right .5moa assuming that grid you are using is .5" or 1 cm and you were 200 yrds from the target. That way no body tells you you missed the target 3 times, lol! </div></div>

Crazy as it sounds I had a 5-10 mph head wind that day. Zero value, right? That 1/4 MOA group was the fastest load I tried that day. So it looks like that rifle likes sending rounds at their peak FPS. My .308 however is the most accurate at around 2600 FPS. It just goes to show that a rifle is like a woman, you have to figure out how to treat them because they're all different. Yes the fine lines on the grid are in 1/2" increments. I didn't adjust my zero up 1/4 minute and left 1/4 minute because of the head wind. I want to go back out on a calm day and see where it is impacting before I fine tune the zero.
 
#22
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Csf45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not to shab for a bone stock rifle </div></div>

I'm going to replace the stock eventually. The rifle is pre-Accustock. I was thinking of a Bell and Carlson. Does that sound like a good one to go with?
 
#23
Re: New guy showing my best group ever.

Ya I hear what you are saying, but @ 200 yrds that small of a no value wind shouldnt effect your impacts elevation. Good luck with you shooting.


Ya a fouled bore is more accurate than a cold bore in my opinion too because you have more copper residue filling in all the holes and nicks inside the barrel making for a better seal and smoother barrel. Also if that chamber is warm you dont need to adjust for your cold bore, on a m40 with the m118lr 175gr, it is usually about a moa.
 
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