Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Ok. So the .711 BC is correct, in your shooting?
Ok. So the .711 BC is correct, in your shooting?
- Thread starter jrob300
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Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Yes. I'm using the .711 BC & it was very close out to 1300ys. I use FFS, & I did a tweak of the DK to .5027, & this made it right on. Haven't been able to do much since then, except a short trip to the 1950 yd tgt to see if they remained stable through trans sonic velocity, & they did very well out there, given the conditions. I went 3 for 5 on a 18" X 30" tgt. in variable winds, & heavy mirage. And would have a 1st rnd hit but for using dope for 1940yd.(per GPS)Google earth told me it was actually 1950. So I hit 1 moa low.
Yes. I'm using the .711 BC & it was very close out to 1300ys. I use FFS, & I did a tweak of the DK to .5027, & this made it right on. Haven't been able to do much since then, except a short trip to the 1950 yd tgt to see if they remained stable through trans sonic velocity, & they did very well out there, given the conditions. I went 3 for 5 on a 18" X 30" tgt. in variable winds, & heavy mirage. And would have a 1st rnd hit but for using dope for 1940yd.(per GPS)Google earth told me it was actually 1950. So I hit 1 moa low.
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Bigwheels- I know that you're using a 10 twist Krieger. Are most other folks shooting a 300 WM using a 10 twist with these bullets? I'm interested in trying some of the new 225's...but I think I've got about 10 boxes of 208 amaxes.(plus it sounds like they currently aren't readily available)
Bigwheels- I know that you're using a 10 twist Krieger. Are most other folks shooting a 300 WM using a 10 twist with these bullets? I'm interested in trying some of the new 225's...but I think I've got about 10 boxes of 208 amaxes.(plus it sounds like they currently aren't readily available)
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Yes. As far as I know everyone I know with a 300WM is using a 10 twist. Tribe's AI may be an 11 twist, but I'm not sure. The 225's may work in an 11 twist @ the velocities I'm getting, but I can't say for sure.
Yes. As far as I know everyone I know with a 300WM is using a 10 twist. Tribe's AI may be an 11 twist, but I'm not sure. The 225's may work in an 11 twist @ the velocities I'm getting, but I can't say for sure.
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
dibbs i would be happy to take those 208s off your hands...pm me
dibbs i would be happy to take those 208s off your hands...pm me
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Keep in mind, that with the FFS Bigs is using, my experience has been, that you tend to crank up the BC rather substantially, in order to get data to jive... just something to chew on, if you are using another software.
That said, as a witness, I can testify, that whatever he is doing, big's data, is usually spot on!
Yes... 1/11... if you want to send me some of those 225's over Retumbo.... I'll be glad to let you know how they shoot
Keep in mind, that with the FFS Bigs is using, my experience has been, that you tend to crank up the BC rather substantially, in order to get data to jive... just something to chew on, if you are using another software.
That said, as a witness, I can testify, that whatever he is doing, big's data, is usually spot on!
Yes... 1/11... if you want to send me some of those 225's over Retumbo.... I'll be glad to let you know how they shoot
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
I'd let you try some of mine, but I Moly, & our chambers are WAY different. And, they're also kinda precious right now... When more are available I'm going to start a switch to the 225's, & wean myself off the 208's for the most part. I'll need to get some stouter steel tho. Them thangs hit HARD!
You still a maybe for 7/2 ?
I'd let you try some of mine, but I Moly, & our chambers are WAY different. And, they're also kinda precious right now... When more are available I'm going to start a switch to the 225's, & wean myself off the 208's for the most part. I'll need to get some stouter steel tho. Them thangs hit HARD!
You still a maybe for 7/2 ?
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
FWIW I've shot 225's out of a 12 twist with no problems. Also next week I'll have highly accurate BC numbers on the 225's as well as the 285's.
FWIW I've shot 225's out of a 12 twist with no problems. Also next week I'll have highly accurate BC numbers on the 225's as well as the 285's.
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
quote=jrob300]<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McLarenRoss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Making me wonder if I shouldnt look into a 300 for my next build over a 284 Win. How will a heavy 300 at 3000fps do against a heavy 7mm at 3000fps? </div></div>
JBM numbers at sea level:
<span style="font-weight: bold">7mm 180 Berger (G1 .684) @ 3000 fps</span>
1000 6.7 mil
1760 18.4 mil
2000 24.2 mil
transonic 2100
<span style="font-weight: bold">.30 cal 225 Hornady (G1 .711) @ 3000 fps</span>
1000 6.6 mil
1760 17.8 mil
2000 23.3 mil
transonic 2150
Extremely close. Keep in mind we don't know th true BC of the new .30 225
John [/quote]
Who cares about elevation? Gravity is a mathematical constant and thus the required elevation mathematically reproducible on EVERY shot. Wind is what matters. You guys need to dump elevation studies and go solely with wind drift comparisons. For wind is never the same in actuality, and to compound errors the operator is *guessing* the wind value for the shot.
Example- there's a buhZillion cartridges that shoot "flatter" than the 50 cal but man that 50 is forgiving in the wind- thus it the "go-to" extreme long range cartridge.
(not picking on John, but I see this ALL the time and wanted to capture a teachable moment.)
quote=jrob300]<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McLarenRoss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Making me wonder if I shouldnt look into a 300 for my next build over a 284 Win. How will a heavy 300 at 3000fps do against a heavy 7mm at 3000fps? </div></div>
JBM numbers at sea level:
<span style="font-weight: bold">7mm 180 Berger (G1 .684) @ 3000 fps</span>
1000 6.7 mil
1760 18.4 mil
2000 24.2 mil
transonic 2100
<span style="font-weight: bold">.30 cal 225 Hornady (G1 .711) @ 3000 fps</span>
1000 6.6 mil
1760 17.8 mil
2000 23.3 mil
transonic 2150
Extremely close. Keep in mind we don't know th true BC of the new .30 225
John [/quote]
Who cares about elevation? Gravity is a mathematical constant and thus the required elevation mathematically reproducible on EVERY shot. Wind is what matters. You guys need to dump elevation studies and go solely with wind drift comparisons. For wind is never the same in actuality, and to compound errors the operator is *guessing* the wind value for the shot.
Example- there's a buhZillion cartridges that shoot "flatter" than the 50 cal but man that 50 is forgiving in the wind- thus it the "go-to" extreme long range cartridge.
(not picking on John, but I see this ALL the time and wanted to capture a teachable moment.)
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Bigs... big maybe on 7/2
Bigs... big maybe on 7/2
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Tres - Very salient point, this bugs me too.
Another thing that nobody has talked about in that comparison is how these bullets do past transonic and if they will transition the sound barrier and remain stable.
The conditions under which the long, conventional, heavy 7mm bullets will remain stable through transition are rare for those of us that frequent the realms below 4000 ASL.
In discussions last summer with Mr. Tooley they were hitting MOA or better at 2000yd with the 225's starting at 2850fps approximately in Nebraska.
The DA's were sub 3000'
In terms of shear distance capability, that 225 is going to edge out the 7 when they approach the sound barrier, whether or not that 7 has a higher BC or not.
Tres - Very salient point, this bugs me too.
Another thing that nobody has talked about in that comparison is how these bullets do past transonic and if they will transition the sound barrier and remain stable.
The conditions under which the long, conventional, heavy 7mm bullets will remain stable through transition are rare for those of us that frequent the realms below 4000 ASL.
In discussions last summer with Mr. Tooley they were hitting MOA or better at 2000yd with the 225's starting at 2850fps approximately in Nebraska.
The DA's were sub 3000'
In terms of shear distance capability, that 225 is going to edge out the 7 when they approach the sound barrier, whether or not that 7 has a higher BC or not.
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who cares about elevation? </div></div>
Tres,
Context is everything. When I wrote that, my whole world revolved around ELR. I rarely shot under 1000 yds. and then only to develop loads for 1500 yds and way beyond. So you see, my perspective had little to do with wind. Wind was the *last* of my concerns. I figured I'd worry about wind *if* I could get rounds to the target.
Now, as far as advice to others shooting shorter distances... you're correct... especially for unforgiving rounds like the .308. Wind is *FAR* more important than elevation. But I figured that someone asking that question in Beyond 1000 Yards was considering the same limitations I would have.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who cares about elevation? </div></div>
Tres,
Context is everything. When I wrote that, my whole world revolved around ELR. I rarely shot under 1000 yds. and then only to develop loads for 1500 yds and way beyond. So you see, my perspective had little to do with wind. Wind was the *last* of my concerns. I figured I'd worry about wind *if* I could get rounds to the target.
Now, as far as advice to others shooting shorter distances... you're correct... especially for unforgiving rounds like the .308. Wind is *FAR* more important than elevation. But I figured that someone asking that question in Beyond 1000 Yards was considering the same limitations I would have.
John
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
I can answer the wind, & trans sonic stability question as best I can. I have taken the 225's out to 1950yd in less than favorable wind, & made consecutive hits there with sub MOA performance. I recorded the conditions in my Data Book as:
27.93" hg
71* F
59% RH
Sight height is 2.3"
Elevation was @ 2000'ASL @ FFP, & 1800' ASL @ TGT.
Weather references were taken with a Kestrel 4500NV. Elevation ASL was per google earth.
Wind was blowing between 2-8 mph @ about 120* with the worst of it @ about the 700-1200yd mark.(estimation from watching mirage) It was switching back, & forth @ the TGT. I did wait on the wind to the lowest point when firing.
I used 80 1/4 moa, & 4 1/2 moa wind, & went 3 for 5 shots on a 18" X 30" silhouette @ 1950yd.
I also did my 1st 10 for 10 shots @ 1250yd with these bullets in a 5-10 mph wind, so I'm pretty sure they buck the wind better than the 208 A Max I was using. As I was never able to go better than 3 for 5 @ 1250 with them in the wind. As you know the wind down range is subject to my reading of mirage, which is still a work in progress.
Hopefully I will be able to get to the other side of the mtns for some wind testing in a steady wind. That kind of wind just doesn't exist on my side.
I can answer the wind, & trans sonic stability question as best I can. I have taken the 225's out to 1950yd in less than favorable wind, & made consecutive hits there with sub MOA performance. I recorded the conditions in my Data Book as:
27.93" hg
71* F
59% RH
Sight height is 2.3"
Elevation was @ 2000'ASL @ FFP, & 1800' ASL @ TGT.
Weather references were taken with a Kestrel 4500NV. Elevation ASL was per google earth.
Wind was blowing between 2-8 mph @ about 120* with the worst of it @ about the 700-1200yd mark.(estimation from watching mirage) It was switching back, & forth @ the TGT. I did wait on the wind to the lowest point when firing.
I used 80 1/4 moa, & 4 1/2 moa wind, & went 3 for 5 shots on a 18" X 30" silhouette @ 1950yd.
I also did my 1st 10 for 10 shots @ 1250yd with these bullets in a 5-10 mph wind, so I'm pretty sure they buck the wind better than the 208 A Max I was using. As I was never able to go better than 3 for 5 @ 1250 with them in the wind. As you know the wind down range is subject to my reading of mirage, which is still a work in progress.
Hopefully I will be able to get to the other side of the mtns for some wind testing in a steady wind. That kind of wind just doesn't exist on my side.
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
I ran them today to 1775 yards @ 2838fps and 500'DA. The ballistics were almost identical to Hornady factory .338LM 250gr that was shooting next to me. They were within 1MOA of each other on elevation. It took me 70MOA to dial for it. A 30MOA base gave me 76MOA of travel on a 22X NXS
I used a G1 BC of .670 with the DA and it was on.
I ran them today to 1775 yards @ 2838fps and 500'DA. The ballistics were almost identical to Hornady factory .338LM 250gr that was shooting next to me. They were within 1MOA of each other on elevation. It took me 70MOA to dial for it. A 30MOA base gave me 76MOA of travel on a 22X NXS
I used a G1 BC of .670 with the DA and it was on.
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
We shot the 225's to 1780 yards this last weekend with 888. Running the exact velocities and enviromantal conditions, we are coming up with a G1 BC of .690, and a G7 BC of .351. Come-ups to 1780 yards was 76 MOA out of the TRG running at 2702 fps avg in 96 degrees, 29.86 pressure, and 42% humidity. We had a 12-15 mph swiching head wind that made it very difficult to stay on target. 888 is running his a little faster than mine for a little flatter trajectory. I'm going to play with the load some and see if I can get a few extra fps out of it. Oh, and did I mention the bullet has a 3.3 second flight time! You could shoot, eat lunch then watch your impact.
I love this bullet! It hits steel noticably harder than a 190 and 208/210 grain bullet. I am switching to this bullet for all my 300WM ammo!
We shot the 225's to 1780 yards this last weekend with 888. Running the exact velocities and enviromantal conditions, we are coming up with a G1 BC of .690, and a G7 BC of .351. Come-ups to 1780 yards was 76 MOA out of the TRG running at 2702 fps avg in 96 degrees, 29.86 pressure, and 42% humidity. We had a 12-15 mph swiching head wind that made it very difficult to stay on target. 888 is running his a little faster than mine for a little flatter trajectory. I'm going to play with the load some and see if I can get a few extra fps out of it. Oh, and did I mention the bullet has a 3.3 second flight time! You could shoot, eat lunch then watch your impact.
I love this bullet! It hits steel noticably harder than a 190 and 208/210 grain bullet. I am switching to this bullet for all my 300WM ammo!
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Hi,
I shot this bullet through doppler radar recently. Adjusted to STD atmospherpic conditions the G7 BC is .336
G1 if anybody uses it is .668
Also there is no problem going through the transonic region with this bullet or any other LR bullets I've seen shot the past 19 years. 6.5MM and up. It just doesn't happen.
And yes it does have considerably more ass to it when it gets there compared to most.
Another thing use the G7 number. It closely matches measured velocities from the muzzle out past 1500
Hi,
I shot this bullet through doppler radar recently. Adjusted to STD atmospherpic conditions the G7 BC is .336
G1 if anybody uses it is .668
Also there is no problem going through the transonic region with this bullet or any other LR bullets I've seen shot the past 19 years. 6.5MM and up. It just doesn't happen.
And yes it does have considerably more ass to it when it gets there compared to most.
Another thing use the G7 number. It closely matches measured velocities from the muzzle out past 1500
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Good info. Surprising BC results tho. I think I'm going to revisit my chrony, & verify my 100yd zero again in the near future. I wonder if my velocity of 2865 is pushing the ave G1 up closer to .711 like my field results show with FFS. My results so far are shooting much flatter than a .670 BC can account for.
Good info. Surprising BC results tho. I think I'm going to revisit my chrony, & verify my 100yd zero again in the near future. I wonder if my velocity of 2865 is pushing the ave G1 up closer to .711 like my field results show with FFS. My results so far are shooting much flatter than a .670 BC can account for.
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Bigwheels
Forget the G1 drag function. It doesn't match up with real world velocities at long ranges.
Check your barometric pressure readings. What you state could only be found in hurricane conditions. 27.93" ??
Bigwheels
Forget the G1 drag function. It doesn't match up with real world velocities at long ranges.
Check your barometric pressure readings. What you state could only be found in hurricane conditions. 27.93" ??
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Sorry. I should have clarified that. That was station pressure @ about 2000'ASL measured with my kestral. Don't remember what the corrected Baro was that day, but it was lower than normal. Not that my kestral couldn't be off. I'll check it next time I go to the boat yard.
Sorry. I should have clarified that. That was station pressure @ about 2000'ASL measured with my kestral. Don't remember what the corrected Baro was that day, but it was lower than normal. Not that my kestral couldn't be off. I'll check it next time I go to the boat yard.
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Bigwheels
Useful little calculator at the website below.
http://www.digitaldutch.com/atmoscalc/
I stand corrected. You're right on the money with the pressure.
This will also give you the speed of sound for set of conditions.
Bigwheels
Useful little calculator at the website below.
http://www.digitaldutch.com/atmoscalc/
I stand corrected. You're right on the money with the pressure.
This will also give you the speed of sound for set of conditions.
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Another area to consider when comparing calculated and actual numbers shooting at extreme long range is BC's decrease as velocity goes down. Ballistic programs make assumptions because there is very little hard data available. Hard data meaning doppler radar data past 1K. My best advice is get to know the software you're using. It will have it's strong points as well as some weak points in regards to accuratley predicting trajectory. Learn what adjustments you can make in the data inputs that make it close to real world data. That can only be learned in the field comparing results at different distances.
In the early 90's we shot at varmints out to 2400 yds. All we had was Bill Davis' Tioga Engineering program running in DOS on our home computers. We had a 1K rock we used for our zero then we'd shoot at longer distances, go home and adjust the data imputs to get the drop chart to match real world results. Then come back and confirm the new chart with more shooting. Good times. With that experience when we switched calibers we could get closer to the real world on the first chart assuming our BC # was close. Some #'s were close and some weren't.
Another area to consider when comparing calculated and actual numbers shooting at extreme long range is BC's decrease as velocity goes down. Ballistic programs make assumptions because there is very little hard data available. Hard data meaning doppler radar data past 1K. My best advice is get to know the software you're using. It will have it's strong points as well as some weak points in regards to accuratley predicting trajectory. Learn what adjustments you can make in the data inputs that make it close to real world data. That can only be learned in the field comparing results at different distances.
In the early 90's we shot at varmints out to 2400 yds. All we had was Bill Davis' Tioga Engineering program running in DOS on our home computers. We had a 1K rock we used for our zero then we'd shoot at longer distances, go home and adjust the data imputs to get the drop chart to match real world results. Then come back and confirm the new chart with more shooting. Good times. With that experience when we switched calibers we could get closer to the real world on the first chart assuming our BC # was close. Some #'s were close and some weren't.
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
Thanks. I'm stuck with the G1 for now as I'm using FFS, & it doesn't use the G7. It always takes a little tweaking to get right, but I've always been able to get there with the published BC, & my MV. Right now I've got it giving data that it verry close, but I've only had a couple sessions to make corrections. I'm really happy with the 225's, but still a little confused why they are shooting flatter than predicted. I was making repeatable hits @ 1950yd with 80 1/4 moa. elevation. 1250yd was only 34 1/2 moa. elevation with a 4* uphill angle. (Not that I mind the flatter trajectory) Some of it can be explained with heavy mirage, & I'm going to recheck my 100yd zero just to make sure.
Thanks. I'm stuck with the G1 for now as I'm using FFS, & it doesn't use the G7. It always takes a little tweaking to get right, but I've always been able to get there with the published BC, & my MV. Right now I've got it giving data that it verry close, but I've only had a couple sessions to make corrections. I'm really happy with the 225's, but still a little confused why they are shooting flatter than predicted. I was making repeatable hits @ 1950yd with 80 1/4 moa. elevation. 1250yd was only 34 1/2 moa. elevation with a 4* uphill angle. (Not that I mind the flatter trajectory) Some of it can be explained with heavy mirage, & I'm going to recheck my 100yd zero just to make sure.
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We shot the 225's to 1780 yards this last weekend with 888. Running the exact velocities and enviromantal conditions, we are coming up with a G1 BC of .690, and a G7 BC of .351. Come-ups to 1780 yards was 76 MOA out of the TRG running at 2702 fps avg in 96 degrees, 29.86 pressure, and 42% humidity. We had a 12-15 mph swiching head wind that made it very difficult to stay on target. 888 is running his a little faster than mine for a little flatter trajectory. I'm going to play with the load some and see if I can get a few extra fps out of it. Oh, and did I mention the bullet has a 3.3 second flight time! You could shoot, eat lunch then watch your impact.
I love this bullet! It hits steel noticably harder than a 190 and 208/210 grain bullet. I am switching to this bullet for all my 300WM ammo! </div></div>
Great I JUST got a load worked up for the 208 Amax with h1000 back to the drawing board.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We shot the 225's to 1780 yards this last weekend with 888. Running the exact velocities and enviromantal conditions, we are coming up with a G1 BC of .690, and a G7 BC of .351. Come-ups to 1780 yards was 76 MOA out of the TRG running at 2702 fps avg in 96 degrees, 29.86 pressure, and 42% humidity. We had a 12-15 mph swiching head wind that made it very difficult to stay on target. 888 is running his a little faster than mine for a little flatter trajectory. I'm going to play with the load some and see if I can get a few extra fps out of it. Oh, and did I mention the bullet has a 3.3 second flight time! You could shoot, eat lunch then watch your impact.
I love this bullet! It hits steel noticably harder than a 190 and 208/210 grain bullet. I am switching to this bullet for all my 300WM ammo! </div></div>
Great I JUST got a load worked up for the 208 Amax with h1000 back to the drawing board.
