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New - LaRue 6.5 Grendel Rifle

longshot2000 said:
Wes, others: there is a thread in the LaRue forum on AR.15, that some of the owners were not happy with the fit, at the rear between upper and lower. I see the gap on your rifle, too, Wes. Esp. Pronounced on the left side. It is like there is an AR10 pattern trying to meet a DPMS pattern. On is sharp edged and the other rounded.

is this a real issue, or just optics?
Click to expand...

I didn't notice this on my own rifle until it was pointed out in this thread. What I did observe is that the upper and lower are a perfect bank vault fit, yet the push pins will come out with just finger pressure. Maybe I was too dazzled with the attractive lettering and flawless Cerakote. When I took a close look at the area where the upper and lower join at the rear in the LaRue rifle, I can see two different contours.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/photos.imageevent.com\/mstn\/laruecostaedition556\/huge\/IMG_6567.jpg"}[/IMG2]

I think I know why the lower is built the way it is.

The LaRue rifle has extra material where the threaded lower receiver extension attaches to the lower receiver. This area was identified as a point of structural failure in the M16A1, and extra material was also added here in the M16A2 and M4 lower receivers. LaRue apparently went a step further.
 
I found a photo of the much earlier LaRue Costa rifle. A somewhat similar difference in contours between the upper and the lower is present here, also:

IMG_4486.JPG


I don't recall anyone saying anything was wrong with the Costa rifle.
 
MSTN said:
I found a photo of the much earlier LaRue Costa rifle. A somewhat similar difference in contours between the upper and the lower is present here,
I don't recall anyone saying anything was wrong with the Costa rifle.
Click to expand...

That is a much more subtle joining. The 6.5 rifle (and maybe your Predatobr) are design flaws. It really looks like AR10 (Armalite) and DPMS patterns coming together. KAC and LMT don't have that issue, although I take exception with how some of KAC's hand rails join the upper receiver.

All of these comments are aesthetical, not (to my knowledge) any issue with function.

 
Today's Range Trip.....

The sun was out today so I decided to hit the range again this time I mounted the LaRue muzzle brake, did NOT clean my barrel from last Range Trip, and I also got a few boxes of that new Hornady 123 ELD black ammo. IMG_20170816_164447758_HDR.jpg


Target on bottom left was more of that cheap wolf gold 120 grain ammo, I had to re zero my scope due to the point of impact shift from the muzzle brake. Groups shifted up about 1.5 MIL and 2/10 MIL to the left. The group at 6 was my best group yet with the cheap Wolf Ammo.

Target on the top was shot with the New Hornady 123 ELD BLK ammo, it was just as bad as the cheap Wolf Ammo.

2434-FPS
2458
2471
2465
2463

Target Right group at 12 O'clock was shot with Hornady Match 123 A-MAX ammo, not too bad of a group just shy of .5 MOA

2510-FPS
2531
2525
2548
2527

Target right group at 3 O'clock was shot with my handloads. .5 MOA

2382-FPS
2393
2388
2385
2407 ( left this round in the chamber cooking due to a ceasefire for 5 minutes, was also my flyer)
IMG_20170816_201247023.jpg



Dragged a Target out to the furthest berm which was at 253 yards, used center-mass to get my dope then shot the Target on the right of the head and finished up with a nice 1.5 MOA Headshot Group.
 
Good shooting. What did you think of the brake? I swapped mine out for a warcomp for now to see if it changes anything.
 
bigjake83 said:
I've completed my LT 6.5 Grendel Builders kit and this is my opinion since completion.

The barrel and other components seem to be quality, but I am disappointed and how the upper receiver is machined. On the left hand side of the upper receiver towards the rear you can see how thin the wall of the receiver is and due to this, it does not fit properly with any lower receiver that I own and that list consists of Aero Precision, Les Baer, Seekins Precision, ATX Armory and KAC. The wall on the left side of the receiver is so thin it leave a 0.020 gap from the side.

The Muzzle brake looks good, but it wasn't well thought out because you have no protection for the outside threads for the suppressor.
Click to expand...

So, all of this assumes (reasonable assumption) that we will fit the upper with an LT lower. I wonder if there might not be a better lower to mate with the LT upper ?

 
longshot2000 said:
Wes, others: there is a thread in the LaRue forum on AR.15, that some of the owners were not happy with the fit, at the rear between upper and lower. I see the gap on your rifle, too, Wes. Esp. Pronounced on the left side. It is like there is an AR10 pattern trying to meet a DPMS pattern. On is sharp edged and the other rounded.

is this a real issue, or just optics?
Click to expand...

I slapped my upper on an old Laure lower and there is no real gap, but there is a different contour between the upper and lower. It's an aesthetic issue, which I could care less about as I don't care how my stuff looks as long as it works and is accurate. However, I did find the fitment to be so ridiculously tight that I had to grease the lugs and tap them home with a mallet. The mating between my old stealth upper is not nearly as tight. I plan on trying some factory Hornady 123 ELDs and AA 123 Lapua Sceners before working up some hand loads.
 
Bill3508x said:
Good shooting. What did you think of the brake? I swapped mine out for a warcomp for now to see if it changes anything.
Click to expand...

The Grendel has little to no recoil as is, but I did not feel any reduction in Recoil with the break. I took it off and put it back on a few different times yesterday and it felt the same.
 
longshot2000 said:
So, all of this assumes (reasonable assumption) that we will fit the upper with an LT lower. I wonder if there might not be a better lower to mate with the LT upper ?
Click to expand...

The upper will operate just fine in any Standard AR15 Lower, it's just a design flaw if he would have added another 0.020 of material on that left hand side it would have never been an issue to begin with but now it's just an eyesore, if you're just a local range shooter like me, not doing anything crazy I'm sure you'll be fine but if you like to play in the dirt maybe not so much.
 
.30kal said:
I slapped my upper on an old Laure lower and there is no real gap, but there is a different contour between the upper and lower. It's an aesthetic issue, which I could care less about as I don't care how my stuff looks as long as it works and is accurate. However, I did find the fitment to be so ridiculously tight that I had to grease the lugs and tap them home with a mallet. The mating between my old stealth upper is not nearly as tight. I plan on trying some factory Hornady 123 ELDs and AA 123 Lapua Sceners before working up some hand loads.
Click to expand...

My upper hated that new 123 ELD Hornady Black ammo, and it did not perform as advertised, take a look at my Crono reading's. The Muzzle velocity stated on the box is higher when compared with the Hornady match 123 Amax ammo. But the results from the chronograph are quite the opposite.
 
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bigjake83 said:
My upper hated that new 123 ELD Hornady Black ammo, and it did not perform as advertised, take a look at my Crono reading's. The Muzzle velocity stated on the box is higher when compared with the Hornady match 123 Amax ammo. But the results from the chronograph are quite the opposite.
Click to expand...

Interesting. All of the other posts I have read elsewhere state that the ELD-M performs great out of these Larue uppers.

 
Last edited:
bigjake83 said:
My upper hated that new 123 ELD Hornady Black ammo, and it did not perform as advertised, take a look at my Crono reading's. The Muzzle velocity stated on the box is higher when compared with the Hornady match 123 Amax ammo. But the results from the chronograph are quite the opposite.
Click to expand...

Well you can add me to the list of being underwhelmed. 123 ELD black did not shoot well, and neither did Alexander Arms 123 Scenar. I loaded up some lapua brass, 123 Scenars and AR Comp from 26.0 to 28.6 (one round each) and it "grouped" more consistent, lol.
 
Last edited:
.30kal said:
Well you can add me to the list of being underwhelmed. 123 ELD black did not shoot well, and neither did Alexander Arms 123 Scenar. I loaded up some lapua brass, 123 Scenars and AR Comp from 26.0 to 28.6 (one round each) and it "grouped" more consistent, lol.
Click to expand...

Try the loads provided in the link above and remember when using 123 Scenars they like to be seated at mag length, the Amax's like to be jumped a little.
 
bigjake83 said:
Try the loads provided in the link above and remember when using 123 Scenars they like to be seated at mag length, the Amax's like to be jumped a little.
Click to expand...

Yup, I'm loading the scenars at 2.258. I'm going to work the ARComp first due to temp stability, and can get a good load at 2420-2480, I'll be happy. I will try XBR too just to see if I can get a little more speed.

 
Copper Creek Berger 130 grain VLD hunting cycles and shoots great. And as mentioned above no recoil. Interesting to see how the energy works on a good size hog at around 150 yds.
 
Nosler CC and 8208 XBR at mag length function and perform well. MV about 2425. ~0.5 moa at 100, rings steel well out to 700.
 
CBDR said:
Copper Creek Berger 130 grain VLD hunting cycles and shoots great. And as mentioned above no recoil. Interesting to see how the energy works on a good size hog at around 150 yds.
Click to expand...

The Grendel doesn't even break a sweat till 500 yards even out of an 18 inch barrel.
 
longshot2000 said:
Wes, others: there is a thread in the LaRue forum on AR.15, that some of the owners were not happy with the fit, at the rear between upper and lower. I see the gap on your rifle, too, Wes. Esp. Pronounced on the left side. It is like there is an AR10 pattern trying to meet a DPMS pattern. On is sharp edged and the other rounded.

is this a real issue, or just optics?
Click to expand...

I was worried about this too, until I got my upper in from Larue. Put it on one of my Mega lowers. It fit up nice and tight, looks great. I don't see a single need for concern.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Crews said:
I was worried about this too, until I got my upper in from Larue. Put it on one of my Mega lowers. It fit up nice and tight, looks great. I don't see a single need for concern.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The concern was the fit with the LaRue lower. Good to hear the mega fits fine. I have mine, but the upper is oversized in its take-down and pivot structure, so I have not gotten the mallet out to force fit it into the LaRue lower. I am also going to try other lowers. It is an issue, to me, that a LT upper has a fit problem with a LT lower. Maybe Mark should build a "Stealth 2.0 lower," that actually matches the fit and finish of the upper.

 
Bill3508x said:
Hmm, I ordered the h2 version, so we'll see. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I ran my Larue with a rifle buffer tube/and buffer, which wasn't all that smooth. I just ordered an H2 as well, which is what the JP flow-chart recommended with a standard mass BCG. Putting one in my 6.5 CM made a difference in smoothness and tightened my groups a little bit, so I am hoping it will do the same in the Larue.
 
I ordered the 6.5 Grendel kit and I am really impressed. The way the rail connects to the upper receiver makes it feel like a monolithic upper. It was noticeably more solid feeling than my last upper. I have really only had the chance to function test so far but I am looking forward to getting it to the range. Apparently LaRue will be offering lowers to the people who purchase the kits. This is on the spikes tactical lower for now.

Also, they're now offering a similar kit for large frame. .308, 6.5 Creedmore, .260 Remington. Base price is $1200 bucks. Lowers will be offered 'soon'.
 

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MSTN I ordered the 6.5CM kit in FDE, but after looking closely at the pictures on LaRue's website, it looks like the upper kits that are being sold were not originally designed with LaRue's own lowers in mind. They look much more similar to KAC uppers. After seeing that, I think I'll mount the upper on one of my SR-25 lowers instead of my LaRue FDE lower. The only saving grace is that LaRue will be selling stripped lowers at some point down the road, and I hope they match up with these uppers.
 
Without having to go and research it, what is the barrel and gas path length? It is certainly a well finished rifle.
 
MSTN said:
18" mid length.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm running right now. A decent mix. 1K is no problem with it. But, I would go back to a rifle gas length on my next Grendel build. 20" on the barrel though. No need to go to 24", you don't gain anything.
 
sandwarrior said:
That's what I'm running right now. A decent mix. 1K is no problem with it. But, I would go back to a rifle gas length on my next Grendel build. 20" on the barrel though. No need to go to 24", you don't gain anything.
Click to expand...

Would a 16" be giving up a lot to an 18"? I've been going back and forth between the two. I'd prefer shorter and lighter, unless my velocity is going to take a large hit at the shorter barrel lengths.

Dave
 
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My 16" barrel was about 100 fps below my 18". About 150 fps below the two 24" barrels. The 16" barrel had a carbine length gas path.
 
sandwarrior said:
My 16" barrel was about 100 fps below my 18". About 150 fps below the two 24" barrels. The 16" barrel had a carbine length gas path.
Click to expand...


I've been playing the same game to, even though a 16 inch barrel is more than capable for reaching out, but for me I can't get the accuracy out of a 16" or 18" barrel. A 20" barrel no matter what the caliber has always been my sweet spot.
 
Smokyred said:
Would a 16" be giving up a lot to an 18"? I've been going back and forth between the two. I'd prefer shorter and lighter, unless my velocity is going to take a large hit at the shorter barrel lengths.

Dave
Click to expand...

I believe I read somewhere that Bill Alexander recommended 18" as a sweet spot for lighter weight applications and that he uses that length on his personal coyote rifle.
 
probitron said:
I believe I read somewhere that Bill Alexander recommended 18" as a sweet spot for lighter weight applications and that he uses that length on his personal coyote rifle.
Click to expand...

I would have to ask where and when does Bill Alexander go coyote hunting. P'dog hunting quite possibly?
 
probitron said:
That might make more sense. I got the coyote rifle thing from another forum, not a direct quote from Bill, so that may be true.
Click to expand...

Not that it's a bad idea, but it takes a lot more time and effort than just floppin' down over a P'dog town.

I have to say for varminting I love shooting both Sierra and Berger 85's.
 
You guys have me nervous. I ordered one of the complete rifles and now I am wondering if I should cancel the order.
 
jpistolero02 said:
You guys have me nervous. I ordered one of the complete rifles and now I am wondering if I should cancel the order.
Click to expand...

For what they are offering the build kit for, I can't imagine why you'd order a complete rifle, no offense. When you can get everything in black unassembled for 800, or 900 for any other color shipped, I can't see a reason for paying 2k for a complete rifle. You could throw the parts on a cheap lower and be out the door for way less than 900.

Heck I'm doing my best to make excuses why I shouldn't buy the build kit instead of piecing together a 6.5G!

Dave
 
Smokyred said:
For what they are offering the build kit for, I can't imagine why you'd order a complete rifle, no offense. When you can get everything in black unassembled for 800, or 900 for any other color shipped, I can't see a reason for paying 2k for a complete rifle. You could throw the parts on a cheap lower and be out the door for way less than 900.

Heck I'm doing my best to make excuses why I shouldn't buy the build kit instead of piecing together a 6.5G!

Dave
Click to expand...

The build kit is definitely worth it in parts alone at $800.00 I wasn't happy with the barrel setup, I prefer a heavy 20" H-Bar Contour. I sold my barrel and Bolt to a guy from AR15.com I'm going to Drop in a 20" Bartlein at watch the magic happen.
 
I finally got my upper assembled and made a trip to the range. Ran 40 rounds of Hornady 143 ELD-X through it. It shot okay, around 2 moa at 200 yards on average. I have had a few rifles over the years with premium barrels that took 40-60 rounds to get settled in and start shooting. When I was cleaning the barrel yesterday, I did notice what looked like some small specks of copper on the first few patches. I guess I'll just keep on shooting it and see what happens.

BTW, all aesthetic concerns aside, it fits really tight on a billet Mega lower. So tight I had to be forceful to get the back pin in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
bigjake83 said:
The build kit is definitely worth it in parts alone at $800.00 I wasn't happy with the barrel setup, I prefer a heavy 20" H-Bar Contour. I sold my barrel and Bolt to a guy from AR15.com I'm going to Drop in a 20" Bartlein at watch the magic happen.
Click to expand...

Followed your lead and replaced the bcq with a Lantac E and JPscs H2 and the rifle actually groups now. Used the Larue bolt. Was only using the 6x Burris, but it's a significant improvement.
post here page 13.
 
Bill3508x said:
Followed your lead and replaced the bcq with a Lantac E and JPscs H2 and the rifle actually groups now. Used the Larue bolt. Was only using the 6x Burris, but it's a significant improvement.
post here page 13.
Click to expand...

Looks good brother.. If I remember correctly the SST Ammo was the worst next to Wolf Ammo, so those groups are pretty respectable. I would also recommend a SLR Adjustable GB The recoil impulse seems a bit sharp and a AGB would smooth her right out and some Handloads.. my best load was 28.0grs of XBR, Hornady Brass, 123 Amax, CCI BR4 Primer, 1/2 MOA all day. If you use that load let me know I'll give you COAL.
 
just got the email from LaRue last night.... they're offering the option to buy a matching lower to those who purchased an upper. Of course, I have one on order now!
 
Bill3508x said:
Followed your lead and replaced the bcq with a Lantac E and JPscs H2 and the rifle actually groups now. Used the Larue bolt. Was only using the 6x Burris, but it's a significant improvement.
post here page 13.
Click to expand...

I didn't notice any changes with the JP SCS last time out, but I am going to switch out the MB and see if that changes the barrel harmonics.
 
Crews said:
just got the email from LaRue last night.... they're offering the option to buy a matching lower to those who purchased an upper. Of course, I have one on order now!
Click to expand...

Me too. And, I ordered another upper. So, 6.5 G Cerekoted upper and lower, under $1,100. I might be a little upset if I purchased the 6.5 Grendel rifle for $2,000. I think I will have the same setup. Wait, I don't think I got a hat with the upper. :rolleyes:
 
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