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New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

btravis1217

btravis1217

Private
Minuteman
Aug 6, 2012
9
0
34
Central Texas
#1
Howdy Everyone!
I am a new member from central Texas and have been hooked on this site ever since I first started browsing through it a couple of weeks ago!

I am thrilled to have such a great wealth of information and resources at my fingertips, and while I have done my best to read as much as I can, please forgive me if I have missed something as this website has such a massive database.

While I am fairly new to high powered precision marksmanship, I have worked around, and fired firearms from an early age and am looking for a good solid .308 platform from which to work with, and eventually excel at. I hope to be able to work from about 100-650 yds or so and as I improve extend that range.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Here is what I have put together after reading as much as I can:</span>
Starting Platform: Remington - 700 SPS Tactical AAC®-SD, .308 (I hope to put a can on it when the funding comes around)

Rail/Rings: Badger Ord. 20 MOA S/A rail, Badger Ord. 30mm Standard rings

Optics: Vortex Viper HS Tactical Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 5-15x 44mm

Magazine/Trigger Guard: Badger Ord. M5 Triggerguard Detachable Mag, Rem M700 S/A

Stock: McMillan A5 W/Saddle-style Cheek-rest, I hope to have whatever stock I decide on be glass-bedded.


Any thoughts, comments, and suggestions are greatly appreciated! I hope to learn ALOT from all of y'all! Thanks!
 
#2
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Everything sounds like you're off to a good start.

Save a few extra dinero and get a Viper PST unless mildots are your thing. I just find hash marks much easier to deal with, especially on hold-overs vs. a dot but YMMV.

Also, if you're not shooting beyond a few hundred yards then a canted base is not needed due to the amount of elevation available in a PST. If you plan to go far with it, then yeah 20moa is good. Wont hurt, but I guess it's better to have and not need than need and not have.

See how it shoots first before you spring for a stock. Maybe have the action trued but a stock stock (LOL) really aint that bad on these rifles.

My method is this:

Gun first
Optic close second (sometimes first, depends how sexxxy it is! :D)
Bullets third... lots and lots of bullets!
Then see where you're at and prioritize what needs to be done.
 
#3
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Thanks JelloStorm! Great feedback! The reason I was opting for a stock is I heard the flex on the sps tactical was a bit extreme, but you're right in that I should set up the rail, rings, optics and the base rifle first and see how she shoots before dropping a couple hundred into a stock. You mentioned ammunition as well, any recommendations as far as that's concerned on what works well in this kind of setup??
 
#5
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Could you elaborate please? I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at, I was under the impression that .308/ 7.62 was able to push out close to a 1000yds in the hands of a skilled marksman, which I am definitely not claiming to be, but does it lack of power to carry that far?
 
#6
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Yep. The ballistics make it fall right out about 734yds. Just search around. You'll find lots of people on here have had the same issue with the 308. Better get a 338 lapua i you want to shoot to 1k
 
#7
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Thanks for the info! That's something really good to know. I think the .308 is a good cailber to start with for me until I really become proficient out to 600 yds or so. What I am looking for right now is something to learn with until my skill requires a better rifle to take some shots out to that range.
Thanks again!
 
#8
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

facepalm111.jpg
 
#10
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StanwoodSpartan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
facepalm111.jpg
</div></div>


+100000

Do you really think a bullet just drops/falls at a certain range??

Agreed I would over look the 308 and stick with a 338 maybe even a 50!!


Read then read some more and when you think you have a good question go back and read again.
 
#11
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StanwoodSpartan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep. The ballistics make it fall right out about 734yds. Just search around. You'll find lots of people on here have had the same issue with the 308. Better get a 338 lapua i you want to shoot to 1k</div></div>

Aw man that's messed up lol. Seriously btravis, a .308 is good out too and beyond 1000 yards. There are a lot of better calibers out there for doing so, but for a beginner a .308 is probably the best option (unless you reload or have a lot of money for ammo). Everything you are looking to buy will serve you well, however you should also look at picking up a B&C (http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-304/bell-carlson-tactical-/Detail) or used HS stock to start out with before the A5. I normally would say buy once cry once, but since you are new to this, I would take the cheaper option and spend the saved cash on ammo, training, a good data book, targets etc. Also, I would either spring for the viper pst, or once again go cheaper and look at a fixed power like a SWFA 10x42 (http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx).
 
#12
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StanwoodSpartan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep. The ballistics make it fall right out about 734yds. Just search around. You'll find lots of people on here have had the same issue with the 308. Better get a 338 lapua i you want to shoot to 1k</div></div>

that is just cruel but also lolsie's. what you have to understand here is there is alot of guys on this site who have been long range shooting there whole lives, for alot of them its what they do for a living. your on the right track keep reading, keep shooting and listen to all of the decent advice you can get.

alright 3 things
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3432918&page=1
best resource ever, read everything there

by a 22lr, alot of people don't like them because they are a vaginal calibre but they are the best fun you will ever have and good practice

your build is fine go with it just grab a data book and get onto some people at the range who are happy to share knowledge and experiance
 
#13
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

You also might want to look into the manners mini chassis. You won't have to inlet the stock and you don't have to worry about bedding.
 
#14
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Two camps here on the boards --- Rem 700 and Savage. Both are good starting points.

Most people will concede the Accutrigger > Xmark trigger

Typically the Savage similar model as the Rem you listed is usually $150 cheaper and has a longer barrel (22" as opposed to 20")
 
#15
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

First off welcome to the forum. I'll start by also addressing the whole .308 "falling flat" at 734 yds. That is the range where 308 begins to go transonic (not quite subsonic yet) I shoot 308 effectivly out to 1K I have buddies who have made shots at 1100 regularly and know people that have pushed it out to 1500 yds. 338 is an excellent round, wish I had it for work where I wouldn't have to shell out the insane price of ammo or pay to replace my barrel thousands of rounds sooner then a 308. I also relisted the list you posted but with some changes that will save you money and get the same performance. Good luck in your endevours

Starting Platform: Remington - PSS standard 24" barrel in .308. You'll save some money and as your skill improves you can have the barrel cut and threaded for a muzzle break that will take a suppressor if you choose to (out of the box one of these rifles will hold MOA accuracy).

Rail/Rings: Badger Ord. 20 MOA S/A rail, Badger Ord. 30mm Standard rings. Good choice here but check out nightforce they make excellent bases and rings.

Optics: Vortex Viper HS Tactical Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 5-15x 44mm
Just bought a Vortex myself for a new project rifle.

Magazine/Trigger Guard: Pacific Tool and Gauge DBM bottom medal.
This is the exact same thing as the Badger M5, i've got one on 2 rifles and the quality is just as good as Badger (I have badger M5 bottom medal at work). You'll be looking at a difference of about $250 and a wait period. PTG's bottom medal is about $130 compared to the $400 a Badger M5 will typically run.

Stock: McMillan A5, I hope to have whatever stock I decide on be glass-bedded
I've got an A5 on my 308 and love it, but save yourself money and get either a removable cheek piece or build one yourself. The saddle cheek piece has a tendency of the screws loosening while firing causeing you to loose your proper sight picture.
 
#16
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Hi there, and welcome. There's a lot of infos on this site and lots of No BS Straightforward in your face members that'll sometimes put you to shame. But more often than not, they know exactly what they're talking about.

I like the above post idea of the Remington 700 PSS Tactical instead of AAC-SD, but I would suggest a Factory Threaded Barrel setup. It's just one less mod you have to do later on.

As others might mentioned, Savages are some Very Capable and Great Valued Starter Rifles, and Accutriggers are one of the best factory triggers on the market.

For Base, I guess I went cheap and got the Weaver Tactical. It's like $60 from Midway and haven't let me down yet. Very good quality for the money and some great feedback from users as well.

I have several Vortex Viper PSTs and very satisfied with them. I'd save up a bit more for the PSTs over the HS. Preferably the FFP MRAD would be a great starter scope that'll last you a while till you save up and get to know what you Really Want/Need.

Last but not least, Check out Stocky Stocks website. They've recently had some shipments came in for Bell & Carlson and other brand Stocks. Check out the prices and which you like best.

I have couple of Starter LR setups based on Factory Rifles that you can take a look (Link in my sig). Good Luck Bro!
 
#17
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Thanks to all of y'all! These are some great ideas! I have been looking into all of the reccomendations and this is some really good stuff. I have also kind of picked up some intrest in Savage and their products, any personal favorites?
 
#18
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Just go with the best to begin with.......GAP,SAC,LA Precision........get two of them, 308 and 300 win mag, put a nightforce on both= DONE. It will save u money in the long run.
 
#20
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Instead of going with a McMillan and a Badger M5, why not just get a Manners T4 mini chassis with a stock pack? You'll come with a complete system ready to go, no special gunsmithing needed to install the bottom metal or need to bed action in the stock. If you get a stock pack with adjustable shims, such as triad, you'll save money over getting an adjustable comb stock.
 
#21
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

+1 on the Manner Stock with Mini Chassis! It's a drop in fit for Remington 700s. Got a T4A Mini Chassis on my .260 and Loves It!!! I Beleive Stocky's should have some in Stock ready to ship!
 
#23
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

watch the for sale side on here. lots nice rifes for cheap. there is a GAP .308 for 2k that is a steal
I bought a hammer of a 300win for $900 on here
save and watch!
same with optics. and when in doubt but the nicest one, cause it will save you $ and assache in the long run
 
#24
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: btravis1217</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks to all of y'all! These are some great ideas! I have been looking into all of the reccomendations and this is some really good stuff. I have also kind of picked up some intrest in Savage and their products, any personal favorites? </div></div>

Yeah. One with with a McMillan stock in either 260 Remington or 6.5 Creedmoor... I really like savage, though Remington makes a fine rifle. It is damn rare when a Savage doesn't shoot great, and they have great customer service. You can easily do all your own work on them including installing a new barrel.

If I were you, I'd go to the members linkup forum, and get out to an event a bunch of guys are going to, ideally a range day. Few members wouldn't let you handle, fondle and shoot their rifle.

Before dropping several grand, it would be good for you to check out and drive a bunch of different equipment.

If that's not feasible, the package you've outlined will serve you well.

Not to distract you, but... I personally have no specific love for 308. I used to, but now when I see a 308 cartridge, I can't help but think what a pig it is. I don't know why everyone says it's such a "good beginner cartridge". Its ballistics suck and it has a lot of recoil-considering how poorly it performs. The barrel lasts 5000 rounds or more, but when you consider it costs $5000+ in ammo to fire 5000 shots, the cost of a barrel is pretty low.

I think a 6.5 Creedmoor is a much better way to go. Factory ammo is barely more expensive than 308, it performs beautifully, does EVERYTHING a 308 can and more, and has less recoil. The argument that 308 teaches you to shoot in the wind is lame, I think. Use a 22 for that. If you want a low performance centerfire rifle, maybe a 223 instead?

If you're set on 308, I'll say no more. I'm not looking to start a cartridge war, but rather, just let you know you've got options.
 
#25
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

So this 6.5 Creedmoor, why do you love it so much? I'm not dead-set on a .308, if you could offer some insight into why it works so well I can check into it for sure. It sounds pretty sweet from some of the comments I have heard.
Thanks!
 
#26
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: btravis1217</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So this 6.5 Creedmoor, why do you love it so much? I'm not dead-set on a .308, if you could offer some insight into why it works so well I can check into it for sure. It sounds pretty sweet from some of the comments I have heard.
Thanks! </div></div>

The 6.5CM:

Has 1/2 the recoil of 308
Has about 40% less wind drift
Has about 35% less drop
Makes 1000 yard hits much easier
Has more downrange energy, past about 500-600 yards
The flatter trajectory makes hits at UKD (unknown distance) more probable
The decreased wind drift makes wind calls more forgiving

Factory ammo is slightly more expensive, but it performs much better. The downside is barrel life. 308s are known for 5000+ rounds. 6.5CMs are known for 3000+ or so. Again, consider how long and how much it will cost to get to 3000 or 5000 rounds. If you assume a barrel is $500 installed, and ammo $1/shot, the 308 costs $1.10/round, and the 6.5CM costs $1.25.

For a fellow that just wants to shoot some groups at paper, at known distance on the "square range" (particularly at 500 yards or less), the 6.5CM probably isn't worth it. For a fellow that wants to explore/exploit the art of the rifle and compete, the 6.5 is WELL worth it.

Bottom line, the 6.5 poses no disadvantage for the beginner, and provides a LOT of room to grow, whereas the 308 will leave you wanting a higher performance cartridge once your skills develop.
 
#27
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Thank you, great simple analysis! I think the 6.5 CM looks promising, a soon as I have the skill set to do so, I will most definitely push things as far out as I can go. The challenge of making difficult shots out at that range intrigues me. Good point on the cost side of things as well, it might be in my best intrest to use the .308 barrel until I have the funding, skill set, and ability to take full advantage of it.
 
#28
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

If your looking for a 6.5 CM, the Savage Series 12 Long Range Precision line has one, along with 260 Rem and 243 Winchester.
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12LRP

Personally, I think .308 Win is a great round to start with because there is a TON of info about it on multiple forums. It is very, very easy to find quality brass, match grade ammo, quality hunting bullets, and general shooting advise for .308. If you want convincing arguments for starting out with a .308, read here:
http://www.8541tactical.com/budget%20precision%20article.php

6.5CM and 260Rem are the two darling short action non-magnum calibers on snipershide. If you want to know why, please read these articles:
http://demigodllc.com/articles/the-case-for-260-remington/
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/30-caliber-1.php

If you don't reload, the 6.5CM is your best bet for match grade ammo. If you decide to reload, 260 Rem becomes a more convincing choice as Lapua brass is available.

Another option, if you decide to reload, is to get a rifle chambered in 7mm-08. The 6.5mm bullet ballistics are only a smidgen better and the 7mm packs more of a punch, which makes it a useful all around target and hunting rifle. It also has better barrel life, but not as good as 308. The downside is that the 6.5mm has a better offering of heavy weight bullets for its class than the 7mm.

As turbo said, I'm not really here to lecture on which cartridge is best; you need to decide, based on your goals and available resources, which is best for you. Hopefully I've provided you some useful leads.
 
#30
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sir Toast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why 6.5 creedmoor? Don't you know it falls out of the air dead at 822 yds (LOL)?
</div></div>

So we can put an end to the BS,

If this "6.5CM" referred to above is anything like the 260 Rem shooting 139 scenars w/ a 2820 mv on http://demigodllc.com/articles/the-case-for-260-remington/, it doesn't go subsonic until ~ 1400 yds. A typical .308 will be subsonic ~ 1200 yds.
 
#31
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zwhetz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StanwoodSpartan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep. The ballistics make it fall right out about 734yds. Just search around. You'll find lots of people on here have had the same issue with the 308. Better get a 338 lapua i you want to shoot to 1k</div></div>

Aw man that's messed up lol. Seriously btravis, a .308 is good out too and beyond 1000 yards. There are a lot of better calibers out there for doing so, but for a beginner a .308 is probably the best option (unless you reload or have a lot of money for ammo). Everything you are looking to buy will serve you well, however you should also look at picking up a B&C (http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-304/bell-carlson-tactical-/Detail) or used HS stock to start out with before the A5. I normally would say buy once cry once, but since you are new to this, I would take the cheaper option and spend the saved cash on ammo, training, a good data book, targets etc. Also, I would either spring for the viper pst, or once again go cheaper and look at a fixed power like a SWFA 10x42 (http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx). </div></div>

I agree with the above - the rifle sounds like a good basic start; I personally would recommend to a new shooter staying mil/mil with the scope (for reasons you can search here by Lowlight - check out the Basic Marksmanship Threads) and I too have had some good experience with SWFA plus around the corner here... The .308 is a solid round, relatively easily accessible - consider that with some of the other more "exotic" custom guns/rounds your also looking at handloading/reloading (keep in mind the cost of a .338 round is significant over a .308, so unless you know you are going to being going consistently beyond 1K I wouldn't recommend it as a first rifle). Do you have the time/initial investment for that as well (although it save money long-term and can push the limits of you and your rifle)?

And ignore comments about the .308 drop-off at 734 yards, that's not sarcasm that's someone's time of the month and cruel to a newb.
 
#32
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Btravis - welcome! Your plan sounds good. My advice would be to save your pennies and buy a rifle from one of the smith's on here or an AI. Buy once, cry once. You'll most likely be at that point in a couple years anyway (like the rest of us were)! Just tryin' to save you some time and money.
 
#33
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

Btravis welcome your choice of a 308 sounds good I would recommend that for a first long range gun. Just because you can get good factory ammo then work into a nice reload kit . The 338 is a great option but a poor one for a first time gun just because of the $$$ involved.
 
#34
Re: New Member! Looking for thoughts on my first rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: btravis1217</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks JelloStorm! Great feedback! The reason I was opting for a stock is I heard the flex on the sps tactical was a bit extreme, but you're right in that I should set up the rail, rings, optics and the base rifle first and see how she shoots before dropping a couple hundred into a stock. You mentioned ammunition as well, any recommendations as far as that's concerned on what works well in this kind of setup?? </div></div>

All of the discussion about different calibers aside, I would start out with Federal Gold Medal Match 168 or 175 grain factory ammo. IMHO this is some of the best factory ammo you can buy. Do not pay more than $21 a box for it - great deals can be found online. I shoot with this stuff all the time and it is great. Of course this is assuming you stick with 308....lol
 
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