Rifle Scopes New Primary Arms PLx 1-8 FFP

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Announced yesterday and I didn't see a thread in the first few pages.


This is their Japan made line. Looks like they dropped down to a 30mm tube and were able to shed some weight.

Will be interested to see what price these come in at and if they had to optically cut a lot of corners to check all the boxes on paper.
 
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fdkay

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    Announced yesterday and I didn't see a thread in the first few pages.


    This is their Japan made line. Looks like they dropped down to a 30mm tube and were able to shed some weight.

    Will be interested to see what price these come in at and if they had to optically cut a lot of corners to check all the boxes on paper.
    That is a significant weight loss.
    I'd like to see them expand their GLX line.
     

    marsh1

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    Announced yesterday and I didn't see a thread in the first few pages.


    This is their Japan made line. Looks like they dropped down to a 30mm tube and were able to shed some weight.

    Will be interested to see what price these come in at and if they had to optically cut a lot of corners to check all the boxes on paper.
    $1499 No corners cut! Our from the ground up design.
     
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    Neurotic

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    Any details on these reticles?

    media.nl
     
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    marsh1

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    Is there an ETA on the new 1-8?
    Late March. I will get reticle details up shortly. Reticle is brighter than the current long running PLx 1-8X. That scope is one of the brightest FFP conventual illuminated scopes. Daylight but not like the center dot only fiber illumination that you only see in some SFP or the more expensive refractive technology used in the Vortex 1-10X.
     
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    JDB55

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    Late March. I will get reticle details up shortly. Reticle is brighter than the current long running PLx 1-8X. That scope is one of the brightest FFP conventual illuminated scopes. Daylight but not like the center dot only fiber illumination that you only see in some SFP or the more expensive refractive technology used in the Vortex 1-10X.
    Thanks for the response
     

    Glassaholic

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    Love the weight savings! Like the new Raptor BDC with the wind holds off the main horizontal if you want to dial elevation (wish they extended all the way to the horseshoe). How about a PLx 2-12 or 2.5-15 FFP with similar reticle? Been wanting a really good lightweight MPVO that's not from China.
     
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    W54/XM-388

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    If its still not daylight bright it might as well be paperweight like the rest of them, especially at that price.

    Are these all going to be daylight bright illumination @marsh1 ? Thanks

    Have you actually played with any of the Platinum series ones?

    I have a couple of the previous generation and the illumination on the horseshoe ring is brighter than you'll ever want to use, when turned up to max.
     

    rlsmith1

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    Griffin M8 looks interesting but I'm not in love with it. Haven't been a fan of the ACSS reticles but probably need to give it a real look.

    I'm in love with the length and weight though!
     

    marsh1

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    Is this scope made by the same OEM as the original PLX 1-8?
    Yes, We don't normally talk about who the OEM is but in this case we all know what factory is the best in Japan. This was a new from the ground up design with our proven steel on steel turret design and no expense spared optical system. We have an experienced in house engineering department that works with the OEM. Below shows the configurable turret setup.


    PLxLPVO Turret.jpg
     
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    W54/XM-388

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    Yes, We don't normally talk about who the OEM is but in this case we all know what factory is the best in Japan. This was a new from the ground up design with our proven steel on steel turret design and no expense soared optics system

    Apart from weight reduction, is there any significant reasons to upgrade to the newer line over the previous 34mm tube, prior gen versions?
     

    DeathBeforeDismount

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    Have you actually played with any of the Platinum series ones?

    I have a couple of the previous generation and the illumination on the horseshoe ring is brighter than you'll ever want to use, when turned up to max.
    Not even close to bright enough. If you actually ran your stuff in all environments you would know this.

    Most people don't actually use their optics to their capability, so they have no idea what they should do and what the limitations are.

    Come shoot in the snow with the sun out and let me know how good your illumination is.
     
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    W54/XM-388

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    Not even close to bright enough. If you actually ran your stuff in all environments you would know this.

    Most people don't actually use their optics to their capability, so they have no idea what they should do and what the limitations are.

    Come shoot in the snow with the sun out and let me know how good your illumination is.

    I haven't tried shooting in the snow with it.

    I guess that must be a lot worse than the noon Texas summer sun on light coloured dirt all around you which is what I've tried mine with.

    So now I'm curious, what scopes actually have this level of extreme illumination for the reticle?
     

    marsh1

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    Not even close to bright enough. If you actually ran your stuff in all environments you would know this.

    Most people don't actually use their optics to their capability, so they have no idea what they should do and what the limitations are.

    Come shoot in the snow with the sun out and let me know how good your illumination is.
    As you see the reticle is designed to go down to a mostly black duplex style that is easy to pickup. SFP wire reticle scopes with a fiber dot gives you a red dot like dot. This platform could support the extra cost of the refractive reticle that allows for a similar dot in FFP. That is what I referred to above that is in the Vortex 1-10X. We are exploring that but IMHO it is not needed. Plenty of experienced shooters agree but I get that your preference is what I call "red dot bright".
     
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    DeathBeforeDismount

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    I haven't tried shooting in the snow with it.

    I guess that must be a lot worse than the noon Texas summer sun on light coloured dirt all around you which is what I've tried mine with.

    So now I'm curious, what scopes actually have this level of extreme illumination for the reticle?

    S&B OG shortdot
    All the Razors
    NF ATACR8 & NX8
    Eotech Vudoo
    S&B 1-8 Dual CC
    MK8 1.1-8

    There may be a few others but if it cannot be ran like an Aimpoint/Eotech on 1x, its useless as a LPV.
     
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    308ftWIN

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    I'm not an operator, nor do I have any stake in this other than genuine curiosity, but, is illumination necessary when the greatest contrast against white snow is an etched bold black horseshoe?
     
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    DeathBeforeDismount

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    As you see the reticle is designed to go down to a mostly black duplex style that is easy to pickup. SFP wire reticle scopes with a fiber dot gives you a red dot like dot. This platform could support the extra cost of the refractive reticle that allows for a similar dot in FFP. That is what I referred to above that is in the Vortex 1-10X. We are exploring that but IMHO it is not needed. Plenty of experienced shooters agree but I get that your preference is what I call "red dot bright".

    The problem is that does not work in alot of environments. Go from dark to light, In bright conditions, ect.

    This is nothing new, we have known it for over 20 years when the first Shortdot was specced and created for Delta. They wanted the ability to reach out a bit further to hit partial targets as well as PID. This is why the LPV was created.

    If you cannot run it like an aimpoint on 1x, you are losing the where you need it the most. At close distances, speed wins. Its why people still run AP and eotechs. Might as well get a 2-7 or 3-10 optic with a Red dot on top of it (which coincidentally is what some people are doing with 1-10/8's so they don't have to go back and forth with the mag ring.). As distance increases you get more forgiveness and "time" to put accurate shots on target.

    The single MOST important feature on a LPV is an "aimpoint bright" dot or aiming reticle on 1x. Everything else is secondary.
     

    DeathBeforeDismount

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    I'm not an operator, nor do I have any stake in this other than genuine curiosity, but, is illumination necessary when the greatest contrast against white snow is an etched bold black horseshoe?
    You won't be able to see the reticle with the glare, especially if its a FFP which many of the best ones are.
     

    W54/XM-388

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    So we need to add a new thing to scope testing.
    Take it out on the ski slopes and look around in the middle of winter on a bright day.
    Sounds like the perfect thing to book as a business expense for research and product development.
     

    DeathBeforeDismount

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    If you want an optic to be used as anything other than a toy, then its not hard to understand why people want this. There are plenty of options in prices from $1K to 4.5K to fit someone's budget.

    Lots of them have tried and failed. Bushnell tried the dual focal plane and quit after years. S&B engineers were fawning over the US Optics dual plane at shot show years ago before they came out with their version. Most are just lazy or want the easy money. They don't understand the market. The ones who do, make these types of optics and they are in use by legit end users.

    Today most of these companies t pay a handfull of "influencers" to blast their shit all over and the morons think a youtube add actually means something. Lots of dumb consumers out there that don't know what or why they are buying something other than some dickhead on Instagram looked cool shooting it. Even fewer real "influencers" who have the knowledge and experience to give out good information. After all, Manufactures don't tend to pay you for saying their products are a piece of shit. Its why every gun rag and almost every video talks about how great something is. All good until someone actually uses it and sees for themselves what the shortcomings are.
     

    TonyTheTiger

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    The single MOST important feature on a LPV is an "aimpoint bright" dot or aiming reticle on 1x. Everything else is secondary.
    I've learned since joining this forum that there's a huge subset of LPVO owners that use them as magnified optics that can go down to 1x on the rare occasion it's wanted, rather than the red dot with the option of magnification that I typically use them as. These guys are rarely concerned with speed or insist that only red dots are capable of it. To each their own I guess, seems weird to me.
     

    308ftWIN

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    I've learned since joining this forum that there's a huge subset of LPVO owners that use them as magnified optics that can go down to 1x on the rare occasion it's wanted, rather than the red dot with the option of magnification that I typically use them as. These guys are rarely concerned with speed or insist that only red dots are capable of it. To each their own I guess, seems weird to me.

    I'd say that depends. It seems like the rage is moving to an offset/piggybacked RDS. I'd wager that makes having that true 1x RDS experience in an LPVO a bit superfluous to some provided they've actually trained with that. You can then place more emphasis on something that has a more effective reticle for the higher magnifications assuming the reticle you like isn't in the very short list above.
     

    TonyTheTiger

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    I'd say that depends. It seems like the rage is moving to an offset/piggybacked RDS. I'd wager that makes having that true 1x RDS experience in an LPVO a bit superfluous to some provided they've actually trained with that. You can then place more emphasis on something that has a more effective reticle for the higher magnifications assuming the reticle you like isn't in the very short list above.
    But then you end up with something like a DMR rifle, which may be the cool thing right now, but I'll wager the majority of what AR's are used for is still sub 200 yards. Adding offsets\piggybacks adds size, weight and complexity and all of that reduces speed, and those dots will never be quite as intuitive to use as an optic mounted in the right spot, plus the biomechanics of chin welds start working against you at 50+ yards, which is still legitimately red dot distance on realistic sized targets when speed is key.
    Again, everyone can buy whatever optics they want, and if their emphasis is magnification that's fine, but mine is speed and for that reason bright dots, huge eyeboxes and wide FOV's are the priorities which makes most LPVO's non starters from the get go.
     

    jzerfoss

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    But then you end up with something like a DMR rifle, which may be the cool thing right now, but I'll wager the majority of what AR's are used for is still sub 200 yards. Adding offsets\piggybacks adds size, weight and complexity and all of that reduces speed, and those dots will never be quite as intuitive to use as an optic mounted in the right spot, plus the biomechanics of chin welds start working against you at 50+ yards, which is still legitimately red dot distance on realistic sized targets when speed is key.
    While I agree the an offset RDS or Prism adds size and weight. I completely disagree it adds complexity and reduces speed. Speaking from experience the offset RDS/Prism is every bit as fast if not faster. When the rifle is slung to the front the rifle can be brought straight up to the face without having to turn the rifle to 90 degrees to look through the LPVO. The speed difference maybe small but the offset sight is faster for me.

    Also, if engaging multiple targets at close and long ranges the transition between LPVO and the offset sight is much quicker than using the throw lever especially if you have to transition back and forth. I haven't found a situation where having the offset has slowed me down. In most situations it's the opposite.
     

    TonyTheTiger

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    While I agree the an offset RDS or Prism adds size and weight. I completely disagree it adds complexity and reduces speed. Speaking from experience the offset RDS/Prism is every bit as fast if not faster. When the rifle is slung to the front the rifle can be brought straight up to the face without having to turn the rifle to 90 degrees to look through the LPVO. The speed difference maybe small but the offset sight is faster for me.

    Also, if engaging multiple targets at close and long ranges the transition between LPVO and the offset sight is much quicker than using the throw lever especially if you have to transition back and forth. I haven't found a situation where having the offset has slowed me down. In most situations it's the opposite.
    We'll have to agree to disagree then. Or maybe more accurately, we can each come up with scenarios in which our preferred set up is faster. For instance, say I'm shooting a 1/2 IPSC steel at 100yds then transitioning to close paper, it's always faster on the timer to leave it at 1x than to tilt the rifle between targets. If I double the distance of the IPSC, it's as fast to leave the optic at 2x and take the slight penalty of shooting the close targets with magnification. Also if I I'm shooting a target requiring multiple shot in quick succession, say a plate rack or a forest of close paper, I find the stock being angled significantly effects the stability of follow up shots part way through the array.
    But that's all besides the point, if I have a 1x scope it needs to work like a close range optic, even if I have another mounted elsewhere I don't want it to be my only option for shooting fast.
     

    jzerfoss

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    We'll have to agree to disagree then. Or maybe more accurately, we can each come up with scenarios in which our preferred set up is faster. For instance, say I'm shooting a 1/2 IPSC steel at 100yds then transitioning to close paper, it's always faster on the timer to leave it at 1x than to tilt the rifle between targets. If I double the distance of the IPSC, it's as fast to leave the optic at 2x and take the slight penalty of shooting the close targets with magnification. Also if I I'm shooting a target requiring multiple shot in quick succession, say a plate rack or a forest of close paper, I find the stock being angled significantly effects the stability of follow up shots part way through the array.
    But that's all besides the point, if I have a 1x scope it needs to work like a close range optic, even if I have another mounted elsewhere I don't want it to be my only option for shooting fast.
    Well for the first 2 scenarios I would personally just stay on the offset optic since the POA/POI is very close at 100 and 200yds(.5 mil and .2mil high POI) with a 50yd zero. As far as the stability goes I could maybe see that depending on the setup. Mine is 45 offset from the upper and not the optic so I get a solid check weld which may help but I don't have any issues with follow up shots or fast close range engagement on multiple targets.

    Comes down to personal preference I guess.... I can use my SMRS on 1x with no illumination in bright conditions and the illum works great for every other lighting condition . While I'd like my LPVO to be super bright it's not a huge deal for me.
     

    W54/XM-388

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    Yes, side by side you would see better optical performance. Is it worth upgrading is personal choice, weight, size and configurable turrets.

    Sounds interesting, as soon as they come out, I'll probably hunt for a deal and get one to try out.
    I have 3 of the previous generation ones, I may consider upgrading all of them for the newer model.
     

    Neurotic

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    Yes, We don't normally talk about who the OEM is but in this case we all know what factory is the best in Japan. This was a new from the ground up design with our proven steel on steel turret design and no expense spared optical system. We have an experienced in house engineering department that works with the OEM. Below shows the configurable turret setup.


    View attachment 7783537
    Thanks.

    Will there be any reviews of these before they launch? I'd love to see SuperSetCA, Dark Lord of Optics and/or C_Does review this.
     

    Twistid

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    Glad superset is getting one, his videos are really good and definitely does not come off as a shill (not in ANYWAY implying that he is, simply stating his reviews seem unbiased).

    This is in comparison to that one eyed pirate patch guy, Garand thumb, mrgunsngear which are obvious paid shills.
     

    JDB55

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    We did receive a limited number of pre production units. Dark Lord and SuperSet will have one within a week. What is C_Does name here? I will connect with him and get him one.
    I wish I knew if he was on here or not, I personally don't, but I did run over to his YouTube channel and send him a message about this thread and you looking for him. Maybe someone else knows his name here or maybe he'll come make an account if he sees my message. He's definitely does an excellent job over there and deserves more optics companies sending him optics for review.
     

    308ftWIN

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    We did receive a limited number of pre production units. Dark Lord and SuperSet will have one within a week. What is C_Does name here? I will connect with him and get him one.

    Contacted him through Reddit to get in touch with you.

    While you're here, has a PLx prism ever been explored? Love my ACSS TA31 very much, but those are discontinued. Would love to see your reticles in some premier tough but lightweight housings and great glass again.
     
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    Neurotic

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    We did receive a limited number of pre production units. Dark Lord and SuperSet will have one within a week. What is C_Does name here? I will connect with him and get him one.
    Fookin' awesome!

    Edit: I wasn't planning to buy a new LVPO this year, but it's looking like I need to...
     

    koshkin

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    Since it is not going to start shipping until March, I do not know if I am supposed to get into the details or not. At first blush it does look like a really nice design. It is essentially same size and weight as the NX8 1-8x, but the eyepiece is the opposite of finicky. This scope is very easy to get behind. I'll need to play with it behind a clip-on.

    ILya