New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

nomo4me

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I'm kind of bummed my new in box RRA has a bit of wiggle to it when I rotate the upper against the lower. I examined several AR types today at a store - bushmaster etc and none of them had any wiggle.

My use for this gun will be bench rested prairie dog shooting.

This is my first AR platform gun.

Will this effect accuracy? I thought RRA was an upper end brand in AR's - s it acceptable for a new RRA to wiggle a bit?

Many thanks

 

didithurt

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

Many, if not all, the AR styles have this issue to some extent. DON'T be discouraged. There is a small rubber piece for sale, usually red, it drops into the rear part of the lower receiver, and should clear all that up for you. It's called an "Accu-Wedge Buffer". RRA sells them for $6.oo, their part number is "AR0190". They are found on page 63 of their paper mail out catalog (I believe they can be found at Midway USA as well, or Brownell's too). I shoot an LAR-8 "Standard Operator" which is going through some intense modification at this point. Feel free to P.M. me.
 

KChen986

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

You can also attach a small rubber o-ring to the front take-down pin and that will prevent AR-15 wiggle. I used it for my DD.

Fixes for Slop
 

ShtrRdy

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

Before being very disappointed, you should see how it shoots. I think RRA specs an accuracy of 3/4" at 100 yds for that rifle.
 

MALLARD

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

all AR's will do that , you can get stuff to stop the vibration but i doubt you'll see a noticable increase in accuracy.

that gap is the reason AR uppers are interchangeable, if there was no gap i bet you could not just grab any AR upper and stick it on your lower
 

nomo4me

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

Thanks for the replies. I'll get her to the range and broken in. Just wanted to make sure I had drawn a dud from the dealer's shelf.
 

M25BeastShooter

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

Don't waste the effort in trying to "bed" the AR series. I was in Ft. Benning in 1991 at the AMU when the Commander made the call to make the Army team field a M16 Service Rifle team as in his words the M16 is the Service Rifle and that's what the Army needs to start shooting. The Armorers went nuts!! These guys were used to tuning and bedding M1's M14's Bolt Rifles for all the teams. They tried bedding, welding plates in the lower the rifles in the end would always end up with "slop"

They finally ran out of time took 300 M16A2's from the weapons storage test fired and selected the best. They fielded a "Black Gun Team" Soon after that they discovered a good barrel, a free float tube, sights and a good trigger and the rifles would shoot all day. Till this day they don't bed or fit any lower. All the work is in the upper(separate from a Giessle trigger)

The rifle generally shoots on it's upper any slight play seldom affects accuracy.

Shoot the rifle and see if its a good one
 

didithurt

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KChen986</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can also attach a small rubber o-ring to the front take-down pin and that will prevent AR-15 wiggle. I used it for my DD.

http://home.comcast.net/~jesse99/AR_Wiggle.html </div></div>
SWEET..! I'll remember that too..!

M25BeastShooter is EXACTLY RIGHT.. DON'T bed the AR PLATFORM.
 

Captain Moroni

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

I built a rifle and hand picked the upper and lowers for the sloppiest fit I could find. I used a good barrel, bolt, free float tube, and trigger and torqued the barrel nut to spec. This rifle shoots better than most and when I go to clean it I don't have to fight it with a hammer and punch to get the upper open.

As far as I'm concerned the Accu wedge is a solution looking for a problem. But I have been called an opinionated prick, your mileage may vary.
 

didithurt

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Moroni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I built a rifle and hand picked the upper and lowers for the sloppiest fit I could find. I used a good barrel, bolt, free float tube, and trigger and torqued the barrel nut to spec. This rifle shoots better than most and when I go to clean it I don't have to fight it with a hammer and punch to get the upper open.

As far as I'm concerned the Accu wedge is a solution looking for a problem. But I have been called an opinionated prick, your mileage may vary. </div></div>

HAHAHA !!!! You may be opinionated... but you are also CORRECT and HONEST..! I don't use one but my RRA LAR-8 is pretty tight.
 

bugshooter

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

RockRiver prides themselves on some of the tightest machine work on the industry. Why don't you call them before you shoot it. Mine is tight and is easy to take down. Consistently shoots .5 moa with hand loads.
 

aloreman

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

i have the national match model rock river and mine wiggles and jiggles and shoots 3 shots in under an inch at 200 yds. anxious to here how you like your varminter as i am debating buying one to try for prairy dogs this yr
 

nomo4me

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

Will do. I ordered a bore guide and shell catcher from Brownells yesterday and want to have them on hand before I head to the range.
Coming from $$$$ custom bolt varmint rifles finding a wiggle in my new gun was an irritating surprise, but if it shoots then I'm not going to worry about it.
My new quest is to find a light, optic ready upper to shoot fmj at jackrabbits.




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have the national match model rock river and mine wiggles and jiggles and shoots 3 shots in under an inch at 200 yds. anxious to here how you like your varminter as i am debating buying one to try for prairy dogs this yr </div></div>
 

aloreman

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

yea im used to fitted 1911s and and custom remingtons and when i got mine after starting shooting highpower i wasnt happy that it was like that but they shoot great
 

gqllc007

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

I have the exact same upper...shoots GREAT. Here is an attached target. I shot 75gr hornady. GET A GOOD GIESSELE trigger..much better than a ROck RIver NM 2 stage...I use a SSA-E Here is 100 yards relatively fast fire. Circle is one inch from 100 yards
RRVarmint.jpg
 

77Bronc

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bugshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RockRiver prides themselves on some of the tightest machine work on the industry. Why don't you call them before you shoot it. Mine is tight and is easy to take down. Consistently shoots .5 moa with hand loads. </div></div>

When I got into AR's years back, I started with RRA. I was purchasing the lowers locally and ordering the uppers directly from them (the best CS IMO). I can tell you this, of all of the rifles I have played with, the RRA were by far the tightest fitting. Many of my uppers to lowers were put together with a lot of grease and a soft rubber hammer.

I am into LMT's now and I will not order them. I purchase them locally to make sure I get one with a tight fit. I know this has nothing to do with the accuracy, reliability, but dammit, when you are spending this kind of money, I want what I pay for.

RRA's are top quality, and looking back, I wish I would have kept them.

77
 

Mr.Maim

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bugshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RockRiver prides themselves on some of the tightest machine work on the industry. Why don't you call them before you shoot it. Mine is tight and is easy to take down. Consistently shoots .5 moa with hand loads. </div></div>

Good advice. You should call them. My first AR was a Rock River... it was tight then and it is tight now. But as others have said, the mating of upper and lower have absolutely no impact on the accuracy of the rifle. ...but I hate sh*t rattling too!

I do have to say that even when they were 13 months backordered in 2008-2009, their customer support was still top notch and immediately responsive when I broke my safety selector lever and had a new one in the mail, including an entire Oops! Kit (that's what I call a set of all the springs and detents for an AR lower, when you have a spring go flying in the garage and say "OOPS!") within the week.

It's worth the five minutes. Call Toll Free: 1-866-980-Rock(7625)

Mr.Maim
 

cyrekzz

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

another idea - and you'll have to check the rear detent pin area... is the demon tactical pin. i use it on my POF 308 and it works great. it replaces the stock detent pin... sucks the lower and upper together via pin expansion. You'll have to look at that area to make sure it's flat and doesn't have a curve that sticks out around the rear pin area as this mechanism folds down. Look it up and you'll see what i mean.
 

bigwheeler

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

I stick a foam ear plug in the hinge. (A used one if it's for a buddies gun)
 

cyrekzz

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

one question, did you buy the Rock River new or is it used? if it's new or not many rounds down it, you could always throw them a call?
I think one of their reputation points is that they pride themselves for the famous tight upper to lower fitament.
 

bpipe95

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

The wedge, the o-ring and the foam plug do the opposite of what you want they push the receivers apart and over time it will make the problem worse.

You can either live with it as is, send it back to RRA (good luck with that) Or buy an armalite front and rear National match take down pin set. You will prob only need the front pin but it is good to get both.

If you have a basic "battle rifle" style AR a sloppy fit is fine, but if you want a gun that will be consistent and precise why would you NOT want to have an upper and lower that fit with absolutely no slop. The gun already has 2 recoils, parts that move with out any input and hammer strike hard enough to move the gun. I consider a tight upper and lower a simple and cheap way to remove one more variable from the equation
 

cyrekzz

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

i actually looked into the demon tactical quick pin and the only receiver it doesn't fit so far is the POF GEN III lowers... i have a GEN II. it should fit a RR
 

nomo4me

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

I bought this one new off the dealer shelf for $900 and haven't fired it yet.
I handled a few more Bushmasters and RRA's today. All were solid as a rock. Makes me feel kind of special that my Varmint 24" is the only wiggler I've sampled.
The AR platform is totally new to me and this gun was bought to experiment a bit and see how I liked it. Had I known better I'd have had the dealer put the halves together and given the forarm a quick twist against the grip. I'm thinking the left side of the upper is moving .005" off the lower. Twisting the other way yields no movement.
I'm going to give RRA a call tomorrow and see what they have to say. If they want to issue a call tag I'll let them have it for a while - I've got plenty of irons in the fire toy-wise.


Edit 11-30-2011
I called RRA today. They were cool about it - asked me to shoot it and call them back if it's bothersome. They aren't eager to have me ship it back but it seemed they'd stand behind their product just fine.
The gap is opening by .0045" using feeler gauges, which gives a movement at the bottom of the Hogue grip of about 1/8".
I've decided to test the dealer I bought this from by showing them the wiggle and ask their opinion. It will be a good way to judge whether I want to do business with them again. At this point I'm pretty certain I'll be letting RRA rework this issue.

Thanks for the replies. All have been useful.
 

cyrekzz

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

yeah - that's weird that it wiggles that much. Although, without seeing it, do the pins fit nice and tight? My RR actually is hard to drive the pins in and out - i gotta shoot it more too - and the upper and lower fit together. There is a slight movement, but i really have to push left or right on the grip to make it move. My POF was loose as to where i would hold it up by the grip in the air and if i shook my hand left-right, i could hear it rattle. My demon tactical pin took care of it.

However, if the upper and lower were truely matched for each other, meaning they were original to each other, then tightening it down onto itself could lead to a different alignment of the buffer angle for the feed of the carrier. Then the rubber stopper method to hold it "up" higher off the lower to reduce the wiggle would be a better method. If the lower and upper were meant to be a tight fit, then the method to "suck" the lower and upper into each other would be better as the BCG path would be made for that.

I think i'm talking thousands of an inch maybe, but my POF misfed a couple of times putting the bullet in the chamber halfway only, sometimes it fed 1 and the next bullet in line would try to feed with it...

my 2 cents... sorry - thinking out loud

edited because i wasn't making sense... maybe i'm still not???
 

BIPMaster

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

I had no idea you could bed an upper receiver to a lower. How is that done?
 

Nothnbutrouble

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

As others have stated...zero play in my RRA AR's in the past...heck my last build off of a Seekins Billet lower has no play using a RRA Predator Pursuit upper...snug as a bug in a rug.
I have handled a few AR's out there (built) that had some play in them...and they shot great. I just don't expect that from a factory RRA...let alone a Varmint rig.
Here is the Predator upper on the Seekins lower...RRA NM parts kit.

Here is an interesting read on "bedding" the upper/lower...
Ar Bedding
616ae340.jpg


a60a1d8d.jpg
 

nomo4me

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

I still haven't had a chance to work with this gun much. I never did shoot it "loose", but installed an o-ring at the hinge to eliminate the wiggle and shot the group in the pic from a bipod and bag.
It likes those 77 gr bullets.
I have also tested with 50gr blitz kings using TAC and Benchmark and all groups tested were around 1/2". It liked the 69 gr sierras as well.
I've since installed the EGW front and rear bag riders on the stocks and expect that will tighten groups up nicely. I also put an Ergo grip of some sort on it as the Hogue didn't feel right. I'm testing this weekend with the Hdy 53 grain v-max bullets and high hopes for them.
I'll post more pics later.

Thanks for the advice.

RockRiver100ydgroup.jpg
 

raider1v1

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

to know if its too much wobble, how big is the gap between the upper and lower at the gaps largets point? when i have mine "fully gapped" there is a wobble but i cant get a piece of paper into it. my 24" RRA varmint shoots about 1/2" w/ 50gr vmax's.
 

kimberseries1

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nomo4me</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm kind of bummed my new in box RRA has a bit of wiggle to it when I rotate the upper against the lower. I examined several AR types today at a store - bushmaster etc and none of them had any wiggle.

My use for this gun will be bench rested prairie dog shooting.

This is my first AR platform gun.

Will this effect accuracy? I thought RRA was an upper end brand in AR's - s it acceptable for a new RRA to wiggle a bit?

Many thanks

</div></div>




Don't worry, brand new LWRC's have the same problem. Use oversized pins and possibly an accuwedge.
 

y2kc5oh

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Re: New RRA 24" Varmint - upper wiggles on lower

Tighter is better as they say, but should not be a major issue. If so, Accuwedge is the way to go.