Suppressors New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

[jonaddis84]

I think my dealer already answered this question correctly, but thought Id see if anyone has run into this personally.

I currently have 3 cans on form 4's, and will have FFL/SOT in a few months. If I want to sell any of these cans, am I able to enter them into my bound book to transfer tax free (tax free to me, obviously not to the purchaser)? The FFL is a sole proprietor. Here's the kicker though, the Form 4's are done with a trust.

He didnt think Id be able to since they are in my trust' name. Only way Id be able to sell them is in-state, basically as if I was just selling private party, but my FFL would do the transfer.

Thoughts?

 

[762frmafr]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

You would have to Form 4 them to the SOT which takes a $200 tax. Either that or just Form 4 them to the person that wants to purchase them. Either way the trust is a civilian and a civilian transfer takes a tax.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

Thats what I figured, I guess the only downfall is not being able to tranfer out of state, at least not without there being $400 of taxes incurred.

Ive never dealt with a private party tranfer. Does the person who owns it currently basically become the "dealer" while the purchasers paperwork is out? IE, it doesnt get transferred to a dealer then to the purchaser, the owner just holds onto it until the paperwork is back? Sorry thats confusing, couldnt find the right wording.

 

[762frmafr]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

Yes, that's correct. The buyer would pay you in full, the Form 4 is filed and the $200 is paid. Then when the Form 4 comes in the suppressor is transferred to the buyer.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

Thanks man.

I cant wait to get rid of this SS Mite!

 

[skinney_7]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I currently have 3 cans on form 4's, and will have FFL/SOT in a few months. If I want to sell any of these cans, am I able to enter them into my bound book to transfer tax free (tax free to me, obviously not to the purchaser)? The FFL is a sole proprietor. Here's the kicker though, the Form 4's are done with a trust.

</div></div>
these are personally owned items "before" you acquired your SOT, you don't need to log em into ur books, like 762 said just transfer em.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

Thanks guys, I guess I shouldnt have a problem selling it in state, thats the only downside to not being able to log it into the FFL's books is not being able to transfer it out of state.

From what I understand, say I wanted to sell this can to someone in Missouri, and 762mafr was doing the transfer, he would have to pay $200 to get it in his book, then the end purchaser would have to pay $200 to get it from him.

No big deal, just trying to learn all the little nuances with NFA stuff before I get into it, Ive learned a great deal already being good friends with one for a few years now, but you can never know too much.

Thanks again.

 

[762frmafr]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> From what I understand, say I wanted to sell this can to someone in Missouri, and 762mafr was doing the transfer, he would have to pay $200 to get it in his book, then the end purchaser would have to pay $200 to get it from him.
</div></div>

Why would I the Missouri dealer pay any tax? If an out of state civilian wanted to sell something in Missouri, either the seller or the purchaser would pay the tax. Whatever is worked out between them. The dealer pays no taxes. Now if the dealer is the purchaser that is a different story.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

Ok, that makes sense, guess I was a tad confused on that part. Well then guess Im good to go either way.

While youre here, Im sure state to state this may vary, but I have a buddy that is about to send in a form 4 for a can and is a Game Warden. Would his boss, the Chief of the Division of Wildlife, be able to sign off as a CLEO?

 

[762frmafr]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

No...County Sheriff...

 

[Renegade]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think my dealer already answered this question correctly, but thought Id see if anyone has run into this personally.

I currently have 3 cans on form 4's, and will have FFL/SOT in a few months. If I want to sell any of these cans, am I able to enter them into my bound book to transfer tax free (tax free to me, obviously not to the purchaser)? The FFL is a sole proprietor. Here's the kicker though, the Form 4's are done with a trust.

He didnt think Id be able to since they are in my trust' name. Only way Id be able to sell them is in-state, basically as if I was just selling private party, but my FFL would do the transfer.

Thoughts? </div></div>

Dealer is correct. This is an example of where the Trust does you no favors. Corp or individual is the only way to get them on your books tax free.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 762frmafr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> From what I understand, say I wanted to sell this can to someone in Missouri, and 762mafr was doing the transfer, he would have to pay $200 to get it in his book, then the end purchaser would have to pay $200 to get it from him.
</div></div>

Why would I the Missouri dealer pay any tax? If an out of state civilian wanted to sell something in Missouri, either the seller or the purchaser would pay the tax. Whatever is worked out between them. The dealer pays no taxes. Now if the dealer is the purchaser that is a different story. </div></div>

I talked to him again last night, and he disagrees with this, unless maybe I just wasnt clear with my question to you.

If I want to transfer a personal can to someone outside of my state it first has to go to a dealer in the purchasers state. In order for said dealer to aquire that NFA item from an individual a tax must be paid. Then once its in the dealers hands the purchaser must pay a tax to get it. So $400 in taxes will be paid to transfer a individuals NFA item out of state.

 

[762frmafr]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 762frmafr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> From what I understand, say I wanted to sell this can to someone in Missouri, and 762mafr was doing the transfer, he would have to pay $200 to get it in his book, then the end purchaser would have to pay $200 to get it from him.
</div></div>

Why would I the Missouri dealer pay any tax? If an out of state civilian wanted to sell something in Missouri, either the seller or the purchaser would pay the tax. Whatever is worked out between them. The dealer pays no taxes. Now if the dealer is the purchaser that is a different story. </div></div>

I talked to him again last night, and he disagrees with this, unless maybe I just wasnt clear with my question to you.

If I want to transfer a personal can to someone outside of my state it first has to go to a dealer in the purchasers state. In order for said dealer to aquire that NFA item from an individual a tax must be paid. Then once its in the dealers hands the purchaser must pay a tax to get it. So $400 in taxes will be paid to transfer a individuals NFA item out of state. </div></div>

That is correct. $400 in taxes must be paid. But the dealer does not pay any of those taxes. The seller and or the buyer pays those taxes.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

Ok, so it was just mis-translated on my part. I just meant someone has to pay taxes for you to aquire it from me.

He has a inquiry in with Sarah Jones, who forwarded it to tech branch on the Chief wildlife officer as a CLEO signature, based on some of the other positions who are able to sign off as a CLEO I dont see why this would not be one of them. I will update when he gets a response.

 

[GcH]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

Jumping in on this thread because it is so close to the question I have.
Say I want to buy a can that the local dealer doesn't sell. He told me he can get about any can out there, and if not, he could do the transfer for me from an out of state vendor. Are ya'll saying I would end up having to pay the out of state guy the price he's asking, pay the $200 for the dealer to receive it in to his inventory, then pay the $200 tax to get it to me? I would think a dealer wouldn't have to pay taxes on a transfer he's just the middle man on?

And OP, what's up with the can you "can't wait" to get rid of?
And what else do you have to sell? In state and all.....

 

[762frmafr]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GcH</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Are ya'll saying I would end up having to pay the out of state guy the price he's asking, pay the $200 for the dealer to receive it in to his inventory, then pay the $200 tax to get it to me? I would think a dealer wouldn't have to pay taxes on a transfer he's just the middle man on?
</div></div>

Negative. Dealer to Dealer and Manufacturer to Dealer transfers are tax free. Whether out of state or in state.

 

[GcH]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 762frmafr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GcH</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Are ya'll saying I would end up having to pay the out of state guy the price he's asking, pay the $200 for the dealer to receive it in to his inventory, then pay the $200 tax to get it to me? I would think a dealer wouldn't have to pay taxes on a transfer he's just the middle man on?
</div></div>

Negative. Dealer to Dealer and Manufacturer to Dealer transfers are tax free. Whether out of state or in state. </div></div>

Whew! Thanks for the clarification. I didn't like anything they had in stock for my next can. Time to start shopping I guess.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GcH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

And OP, what's up with the can you "can't wait" to get rid of?
And what else do you have to sell? In state and all..... </div></div>

Its not that the YHM SS Mite is a terrible can or anything, I mean $250 for a magnum rated ran is a great price, but after hearing my new TBAC 22L-1 its just a different level. Its quieter all around, and half the weight, and still magnum rated. However its twice the price at regular retail.

I may eventually end up with some stuff for sale in the coming years other than the Mite, but Im quite happy with my 7.62 phantom other than its weight.

 

[HPLLC]

Re: New SOT, entering existing items into bound book?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats what I figured, I guess the only downfall is not being able to tranfer out of state, at least not without there being $400 of taxes incurred.

Ive never dealt with a private party tranfer. Does the person who owns it currently basically become the "dealer" while the purchasers paperwork is out? IE, it doesnt get transferred to a dealer then to the purchaser, the owner just holds onto it until the paperwork is back? Sorry thats confusing, couldnt find the right wording. </div></div>

Go to a gun show or two, and sell them locally on form 4's. Paying an additional $200 tax in your situation is unfortunate.