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Gunsmithing new stock, bad accuracy

R

rrflyer

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 7, 2008
1,735
69
43
DFW, TX
#1
Got a new McMillan HTG and put it on sps Tac to replace the Hogue stock.


Took it out to the range and was inconsistent as hell.


Just wondering if theres something I could have messed up..Torque is set at 60LB's.


Or was it probably just me having a bad day?
 
#4
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

not bedded, wanted to see if i liked the stock before I bedded it. Mcmillan stocks really shouldn't need it anyhow..

Reloads are the same ones I've used in this rifle before.

45gn's varget, 175SMK. Pretty easy .5-.75 MOA Load.
 
#6
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not bedded, Mcmillan stocks really shouldn't need it anyhow..</div></div>

Really
 
#7
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dallas12</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may need to rework your load for that stock.</div></div>

If the barrel isn’t touching the stock and all is being held rigid and not moving, it shouldn’t matter.
 
#9
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dallas12</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And Then??? </div></div>

My quess is that something is moving and not being held rigid. Was the barrel touching in the original stock?

I've never had to change my load when I changed stocks and I've had more than a few.
 
#10
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not bedded, Mcmillan stocks really shouldn't need it anyhow..</div></div>

Really </div></div>

Thats what i've been told/read on here.

For the ultimate accuracy I guess bedding is best but I've read the McMillan himself said the stocks didn't really need it.




Regardless I guess I would expect it to shoot at least as well as with the Hogue Stock on it.

Or am I just completely off the mark on this one?


Barrel was freefloated in previous stock and is in this one as well....although it starts to get tighter once you get near the recoil lug where the barrel diameter is a little wider. (Remington Varmint contour)
 
#11
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

There are way too many unanswered questions with this. For starters;

1. Does the recoil lug have clearence on the bottom?

2. Is the barrel free floated?

3. Is the internal mag box floating or jammed in tight?

4. Is there any stress, anywhere, thats being transfered to the receiver?

5. In the SPS/Hogue combo, what did the groups look like?
 
#13
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

I'd check the mag box, as wnroscoe said. Make sure its not jammed in there or twisted funny, I've seen that happen before when I'm in a rush and it screws with the accuracy big time.

Also in my opinion the 60lb torque seems a bit high, but if it works it works.
 
#14
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Thats what i've been told/read on here.

For the ultimate accuracy I guess bedding is best but I've read the McMillan himself said the stocks didn't really need it.
</div></div>

McMillan stocks are great stocks but that statement by McMillan has caused more issues then it should. There are just too many variables to make such a blanket statement in my experience and have it be true 100% of the time.

Bed the stock.
 
#15
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are way too many unanswered questions with this. For starters;

1. Does the recoil lug have clearence on the bottom?

2. Is the barrel free floated?

3. Is the internal mag box floating or jammed in tight?

4. Is there any stress, anywhere, thats being transfered to the receiver?


5. In the SPS/Hogue combo, what did the groups look like?

</div></div>

Tried just loosening the front screw...barrel didn't move

1. Recoil lug appears to have clearence on the bottom, pulled the action and didn't see any marks on the bottom of the lug..

2. Barrel is free floated, dollar bill sides all the way down to the lug and back up with no problem

3. Mag box appears to be free floating. Theres is very minimal vertical movement but fore to aft movent is about 1/16 of an inch and moves easily. But I didn't check before I loosened and retightened the front screw....could be that this was jammed before as i remember fumbling with it trying to get it installed.

4. I dont see where other stress would come from?!?!? Only thing thats mounted is the rail/scope. Just like they were on in thre previous stock. I pulled the action assembly and bolted it into new stock.

5. Groups were good. Not hard to get .75 MOA repeatedly.

Link to some with Hogue Stock
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post1953855

I'll admit it was probably me, just want to make sure theres not something obvious I'm overlooking. Just seemed that I couldn't get the rifle to do anything consistent. .5 inch high,low, left, right....I dunno.
 
#16
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tried just loosening the front screw...barrel didn't move
</div></div>

I'm not sure this is something that you can see just by watching, to do it right you have to mount the rifle in a vise and use tools to measure if the barrel moves. You wouldn't be able to pickup the little bit of movement that "could" make a difference by just watching it.
 
#18
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

It sounds like it's as tight as can be expected, I'd still bed it as rule #1 though.

Do you have any factory loaded match grade ammo you could try? FGMM, Hornaday Match etc?

Do you have any H4895, 175SMK's, CCIBR2 or 200 primers and Lapua Brass?

The tried and true 308 load is 41.0 to 42.5 grains of H4895 with the above components.

If you’re doing all things correctly behind the rifle it becomes a rifle or ammunition issue. Some of the groups I looked at from the Hogue combo looked to be double grouping so, to me, your ammo is also suspect.

Try a simple ammo test and see if things get better.

A few years back I shot a lot of BR stuff. My 6BR was OK but I always felt like I was fighting it. When the barrel went away (2,500 rounds) I set it back and changed loads. I went from N140 & RL15 to Varget, from the 107SMK to the Berger 105VLD and from the F205M to the CCIBR4. It became a totally different rifle and accuracy was through the roof. Insanely good to say the least. The first load was close but, it was never in tune.

Sometimes we get all wrapped up in "The Load" and blindly move forward. Sometimes, we need to go back to basics and start over. Where reloads are concerned, there is a prime node and tune, finding it is part of the battle. Varget is a very good powder but, don’t get too wrapped up in it, there are powders that will give better results in some rifles.

If your rifle were mine, I'd pillar bed it and re-work my load.
 
#19
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

Primers were CCI BR2 primers and Lapua Brass, 45 gns varget. Brass trimmed to min length, seated to 2.80 to feed from the box.

I never did any real load workup as it shot sub MOA with this and that was fine with me for now.

I'll try it again next week, and see whats what.

If that doesn't work I may send it your way to bed and have it checked out.

Thanks for the Help thus far.
 
#20
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got a new McMillan HTG and put it on sps Tac to replace the Hogue stock.


Took it out to the range and was inconsistent as hell.


Just wondering if theres something I could have messed up..Torque is set at 60LB's.


Or was it probably just me having a bad day? </div></div>
rrflyer, I hope you torqued it 65 inch pounds Not 60 pounds.
 
#22
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not bedded, wanted to see if i liked the stock before I bedded it. <span style="color: #3333FF">Mcmillan stocks really shouldn't need it anyhow..</span>

Reloads are the same ones I've used in this rifle before.

45gn's varget, 175SMK. Pretty easy .5-.75 MOA Load. </div></div>

Please Explain this logic. Because you are far from correct.
 
#23
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

Inch lbs.....if it was FT/Lb's i think I'd have bigger problems!


As for not bedding thats whats been said on here as well as by McMillan Himself.

I dont claim to know more than the guy who makes the shit.....
 
#24
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

This has been said by the folks at McMillian. Reference #14 on their webpage under FAQ's.

14. Do I need to bed the receiver?
We have found that in most cases our drop-in and custom fitted stocks provide better than adequate accuracy unbedded. However the final determination is left up to the individual shooter. Bedding services are available from your local gunsmith or from our factory.

However, I would listen to William and have it bedded,

 
#25
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fngmike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VTR beat me to it. Inch or Foot lb.? </div></div>

LOL I think the allen wrench might break at 60 ft-lbs! Thats like what my impact hammer does to my wheel lugs.
 
#26
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

Something else to consider, and when wnroscoe said "back to the basics" made me think of it.....
How many times have you had the new stock on the range? Has your cheek weld changed drastically with the changing of the stock? In other words, have you gotten comfortable enough with the new stock to know that your basic shooter skills haven't gone away? New rifle/stock has a new feel that can sometimes be a distraction to the basics.... might try several "dry runs" at the house every day until you get back to the range.
Just a thought... I'm no pro
 
#27
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fngmike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VTR beat me to it. Inch or Foot lb.? </div></div>

LOL I think the allen wrench might break at 60 ft-lbs! Thats like what my impact hammer does to my wheel lugs. </div></div>
Just wondering.. Thought if it was ft lbs the stock and pillars would be broke. McMiiilan are tough but I don't think that tough...
 
#28
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

I would say bed the stock. The only stocks I would not worry about bedding are chassis systems. I don't care what McMillan says...... bed it!


Ask Tom Manners what he thinks.... he posts here.
 
#29
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

I've no doubt that bedding may aide consistency and shrink groups somewhat because of that.

But I would assume, and correct me if I'm wrong, that an unbedded McMillan stock should be seeing accuracy similiar to a pillar bedded only Hogue Stock.

My reason for not bedding it was to spend a little time behind the rifle/new stock to see if its something that I like before I put the expense/time into bedding it.


And yes the wrench is in IN/LB's. Ft/Lb's I would have been asking why my stock snapped!

Be back out on it next wednesday to see what I can figure out.
 
#30
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

Daddio,

As William said, a proper stress free bedding job will eliminate a great deal of potential issues you will be working through. Take the time, have it bedded, and I would be willing to bet the issues dissolve.

In reference to your assumption, it may very well be right 8 out of 10 times, but if you are not able to shoot consistantly in an unbedded McM stock, then you may be the exception to the rule. Ooh-rah, your special now, you can park in blue spaces at the Wally World. Get in bedded, you spent the coin on a McM, have it installed properly.

Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.
 
#31
Re: new stock, bad accuracy

A couple thoughts;

Are you using the factory x-mark trigger, if so is there clearance for it in the inlet?

Are you using the factory bottom metal? If so, don’t torque over 40 inch lbs or galling/cracking can occur.
 
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