I am fairly new to long range target shooting but i am getting better. I am looking for a Remington 700 chambered in .204 ruger anyone know which one is best im looking at the VTR atm or the SPS varmint.
New to long range shooting.
- Thread starter Chili47
- Start date
Re: New to long range shooting.
The 204 is not a long range cartridge. The bullet, why flying exceptionally fast, does not have the BC or weight to do anything long range.
You should re-look your caliber selection.
But if you are stuck on the 204, my vote always goes to the lower end models, and you will inevitably upgrade.
The 204 is not a long range cartridge. The bullet, why flying exceptionally fast, does not have the BC or weight to do anything long range.
You should re-look your caliber selection.
But if you are stuck on the 204, my vote always goes to the lower end models, and you will inevitably upgrade.
Re: New to long range shooting.
My dad has a .204 and i really like how it is a laser. i want this caliber because you still get a ok ballistic coefficient with the light bullets.I was also thinking maybe a .243 or .308 what do you think i have been using a old .22-250 for my target shooting and i have found a bullet with a similar bc. http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?s...mp;bullettype=0 This bullets has a greater bc than what i have been shooting and should tear a prairie dog to peaces.
What are your guys take on the VTR?
My dad has a .204 and i really like how it is a laser. i want this caliber because you still get a ok ballistic coefficient with the light bullets.I was also thinking maybe a .243 or .308 what do you think i have been using a old .22-250 for my target shooting and i have found a bullet with a similar bc. http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?s...mp;bullettype=0 This bullets has a greater bc than what i have been shooting and should tear a prairie dog to peaces.
What are your guys take on the VTR?
Re: New to long range shooting.
Forget about the VTR and go with the SPS Varmint. Also, decide on a larger bullet for longer range, preferably .308. +1 on English
Forget about the VTR and go with the SPS Varmint. Also, decide on a larger bullet for longer range, preferably .308. +1 on English
Re: New to long range shooting.
I don't speak english i speak engrish. And i am thinking the sps in .243,but idk we will see what funds allow in the next few months.
I don't speak english i speak engrish. And i am thinking the sps in .243,but idk we will see what funds allow in the next few months.
Re: New to long range shooting.
The main reason i do not want to go with a .308 is probably because my dad would disown me lol. He hates that round with a passion and has been shooting rounds like the .22-250 and .220 swift for years. he does not believe in taking a shot further than 300 yards.
The main reason i do not want to go with a .308 is probably because my dad would disown me lol. He hates that round with a passion and has been shooting rounds like the .22-250 and .220 swift for years. he does not believe in taking a shot further than 300 yards.
Re: New to long range shooting.
Forget your dads opinion. This is your rifle and your money. You can laugh at him when your horrible .308 out-shoots all his rifles
Forget your dads opinion. This is your rifle and your money. You can laugh at him when your horrible .308 out-shoots all his rifles
Re: New to long range shooting.
One of these days you gota grow up and be your own man... get the .243 or .308. 300yds is only the beginning.
One of these days you gota grow up and be your own man... get the .243 or .308. 300yds is only the beginning.
Re: New to long range shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300 yards is short range.
I know I am going to regret this but why does your father hate the .308? </div></div>
He has had mostly magnum cartriges, like the .270 weatherby and .300 h and H idk he just bad mouths it like crazy. If its not over 3000 fps he does not like it. And yes i think i am going to go with the .308 use it for my target gun and use the .22-250 and 17 hmr for Prairie dogs.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300 yards is short range.
I know I am going to regret this but why does your father hate the .308? </div></div>
He has had mostly magnum cartriges, like the .270 weatherby and .300 h and H idk he just bad mouths it like crazy. If its not over 3000 fps he does not like it. And yes i think i am going to go with the .308 use it for my target gun and use the .22-250 and 17 hmr for Prairie dogs.
Re: New to long range shooting.
Don't even waste your time with the VTR it was a concept that doesn't really make a difference in how the weapon shoots. I have the .308 Varmit nad if you live in the SF Bay area you are more than welcome to go to the range with me and shoot it for yourself! if you really don't want the .308 then... .270? but the lighter the round shorter it will carry.
Don't even waste your time with the VTR it was a concept that doesn't really make a difference in how the weapon shoots. I have the .308 Varmit nad if you live in the SF Bay area you are more than welcome to go to the range with me and shoot it for yourself! if you really don't want the .308 then... .270? but the lighter the round shorter it will carry.
Re: New to long range shooting.
I live in colorado lol but i have a friend who has a VTR and the barrel seems to stay cooler than the bull barrel that i have on my .22-250, i think i have now narrowed it down to the .308 SPS tactical. I just got a .270 wsm that i do not want to ruin the barrel on because it is my hunting rifle for elk.
I live in colorado lol but i have a friend who has a VTR and the barrel seems to stay cooler than the bull barrel that i have on my .22-250, i think i have now narrowed it down to the .308 SPS tactical. I just got a .270 wsm that i do not want to ruin the barrel on because it is my hunting rifle for elk.
Re: New to long range shooting.
*.204 Ruger is a horrible LR shooting cartridge
*.281 BC is a horrible BC for long range shooting
*velocity is only 1 part of the equation
*how can he like a .300 H&H and not a .308 winchester??
*.308 win is a excellant LR begineers cartridge
With a 165gr Nosler BT at 2800fps with a 200yd Zero you get about 6.8"of drop to 300 yards, with less cost, and recoil.
*Oh and the VTR barrel does nothing, purely asthetics
*.204 Ruger is a horrible LR shooting cartridge
*.281 BC is a horrible BC for long range shooting
*velocity is only 1 part of the equation
*how can he like a .300 H&H and not a .308 winchester??
*.308 win is a excellant LR begineers cartridge
With a 165gr Nosler BT at 2800fps with a 200yd Zero you get about 6.8"of drop to 300 yards, with less cost, and recoil.
*Oh and the VTR barrel does nothing, purely asthetics
Re: New to long range shooting.
The 22-250 & swift are great if you have a 8 or 9 twist barrel. The 75 & 80 gr .224's work well. Can be a little rough seeing impacts on steel over 700 yards and you may need to pull your plugs to hear them but, they work.
Of what you've listed, go with the 243. Push 95 smk's and 105's.
Good luck.
The 22-250 & swift are great if you have a 8 or 9 twist barrel. The 75 & 80 gr .224's work well. Can be a little rough seeing impacts on steel over 700 yards and you may need to pull your plugs to hear them but, they work.
Of what you've listed, go with the 243. Push 95 smk's and 105's.
Good luck.
Re: New to long range shooting.
Thanks for the imput it will be a couple months till i buy so ill have some time and a friend who can help me learn some of this stuff.
Thanks for the imput it will be a couple months till i buy so ill have some time and a friend who can help me learn some of this stuff.
Re: New to long range shooting.
If you get an SPS varmint, it has a 26" barrel, where you can push 155s over 3000 fps, so that shits on your dads theory.
If you get an SPS varmint, it has a 26" barrel, where you can push 155s over 3000 fps, so that shits on your dads theory.
Re: New to long range shooting.
Yea go with the .308, your money, your choice of caliber is what it boils down to. Forget the .204, fun for shooting small stuff and for the girlfriend to shoot but that's about it.
Yea go with the .308, your money, your choice of caliber is what it boils down to. Forget the .204, fun for shooting small stuff and for the girlfriend to shoot but that's about it.
Re: New to long range shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Johnny Lately</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yea go with the .308, your money, your choice of caliber is what it boils down to. Forget the .204, fun for shooting small stuff and for the girlfriend to shoot but that's about it. </div></div>
I have a .17 hmr, 22lr, and 22-250 for the girl friend and mine likes heavy recoil anyway.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Johnny Lately</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yea go with the .308, your money, your choice of caliber is what it boils down to. Forget the .204, fun for shooting small stuff and for the girlfriend to shoot but that's about it. </div></div>
I have a .17 hmr, 22lr, and 22-250 for the girl friend and mine likes heavy recoil anyway.
Re: New to long range shooting.
Get a 308 with the 17hmr and 22-250 you have no need for a 204. Unless you just want one.
Get a 308 with the 17hmr and 22-250 you have no need for a 204. Unless you just want one.
Re: New to long range shooting.
I find it amazing that so many can post that the OP (who is obviously younger in age) should ignore his father's recommendations/opinions.
Especially with remarks like....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget your dads opinion. This is your rifle and your money. You can laugh at him when your horrible .308 out-shoots all his rifles</div></div>
You guys have no idea of what the OP's father's experience is. The OP made a reference to his hunting rifle being reserved for elk, so they obviously hunt some big game that isn't necessarily easy to kill. This may be the root of the father's opinions.
In any case, the .22ish calibers that rely heavily on velocity for the bulk of their energy generally aren't intended for long range use. From what I've seen, usually 300 yards and closer for varminting and that sort of stuff.
I do know one guy that has a military shooting background that like's to go hunting prairie dogs at long ranges (600 yards) and he shoots a .243. According to him, it's a good balance between high velocity/flat shooting and energy at longer ranges.
.308 has gotten to be popular for a number of reasons. Military brass is cheap. Surplus bullets are cheap. The round has an inherent accuracy. It's really easy to land on a load that will shoot very well. .308 is also easy on the rifle. According to my gun smith, I should be able to go 5000 rounds or more before I have to have the barrel set back and re-chambered. The selection of bullets for the .308 is also almost limitless. The .308 is just a good all around performer. Sort of a jack of all trades.
Quite frankly, if all I was doing was shooting long range (600 yards and beyond), I'd probably opt for something in a magnum caliber. Maybe a .300 Win Mag or something along those lines; but then I'd be on my second barrel in the last six months and would probably be living with a perpetually bruised shoulder.
As far as which rifle you should get goes, get what you like; although the rifle that you get will determine what you'll need to do to it once you get it. Almost all of the guys that I shoot with like either the Remingtons or the the Savages. All of the Remingtons that I've seen that have been at least Varmint models with heavier barrels have been real shooters. I really can't see you getting one and being disappointed with the performance. The only caveat to that is the SPS Varmint models. I usually like to give credit where credit is due, but I really couldn't find any redeeming qualities when it comes to the stock that the SPS Varmint comes in. If you opt for the Varmint, you may very well find yourself looking to replace the stock ASAP.
If you go with an SPS Tactical, you're gonna like it. It's nice and easy to handle and there really isn't anything on it that will NEED to be replaced before you'll be shooting very well with it.
I started out with an SPS Tactical and it served me well. The only reason that I upgraded the barrel, trigger and stock is probably that I have more money than sense when it comes to my hobbies.
I find it amazing that so many can post that the OP (who is obviously younger in age) should ignore his father's recommendations/opinions.
Especially with remarks like....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget your dads opinion. This is your rifle and your money. You can laugh at him when your horrible .308 out-shoots all his rifles</div></div>
You guys have no idea of what the OP's father's experience is. The OP made a reference to his hunting rifle being reserved for elk, so they obviously hunt some big game that isn't necessarily easy to kill. This may be the root of the father's opinions.
In any case, the .22ish calibers that rely heavily on velocity for the bulk of their energy generally aren't intended for long range use. From what I've seen, usually 300 yards and closer for varminting and that sort of stuff.
I do know one guy that has a military shooting background that like's to go hunting prairie dogs at long ranges (600 yards) and he shoots a .243. According to him, it's a good balance between high velocity/flat shooting and energy at longer ranges.
.308 has gotten to be popular for a number of reasons. Military brass is cheap. Surplus bullets are cheap. The round has an inherent accuracy. It's really easy to land on a load that will shoot very well. .308 is also easy on the rifle. According to my gun smith, I should be able to go 5000 rounds or more before I have to have the barrel set back and re-chambered. The selection of bullets for the .308 is also almost limitless. The .308 is just a good all around performer. Sort of a jack of all trades.
Quite frankly, if all I was doing was shooting long range (600 yards and beyond), I'd probably opt for something in a magnum caliber. Maybe a .300 Win Mag or something along those lines; but then I'd be on my second barrel in the last six months and would probably be living with a perpetually bruised shoulder.
As far as which rifle you should get goes, get what you like; although the rifle that you get will determine what you'll need to do to it once you get it. Almost all of the guys that I shoot with like either the Remingtons or the the Savages. All of the Remingtons that I've seen that have been at least Varmint models with heavier barrels have been real shooters. I really can't see you getting one and being disappointed with the performance. The only caveat to that is the SPS Varmint models. I usually like to give credit where credit is due, but I really couldn't find any redeeming qualities when it comes to the stock that the SPS Varmint comes in. If you opt for the Varmint, you may very well find yourself looking to replace the stock ASAP.
If you go with an SPS Tactical, you're gonna like it. It's nice and easy to handle and there really isn't anything on it that will NEED to be replaced before you'll be shooting very well with it.
I started out with an SPS Tactical and it served me well. The only reason that I upgraded the barrel, trigger and stock is probably that I have more money than sense when it comes to my hobbies.
Re: New to long range shooting.
Thanks for the info. i have shot my friends VTR, chambered in .204 and i really like the feel of the gun. It also clovers them at 100 yards, i know some of you are skeptical about the stock not being free floated and the triangular barrel. I really like the gun, im most likley to go with the vtr in .243 so i dont spend too much and i can put a new stock on it when im sick of it.That was the plan i had in the first place.
Thanks for the info. i have shot my friends VTR, chambered in .204 and i really like the feel of the gun. It also clovers them at 100 yards, i know some of you are skeptical about the stock not being free floated and the triangular barrel. I really like the gun, im most likley to go with the vtr in .243 so i dont spend too much and i can put a new stock on it when im sick of it.That was the plan i had in the first place.
Re: New to long range shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Quite frankly, if all I was doing was shooting long range (600 yards and beyond), I'd probably opt for something in a magnum caliber. Maybe a .300 Win Mag or something along those lines; but then I'd be on my second barrel in the last six months and would probably be living with a perpetually bruised shoulder.
</div></div>
Why a 300win mag for 600 and beyond? I wouldn't switch to a magnum unless I was going to live beyond 1000 yards. The 243 and 308 are fine to 1000
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Quite frankly, if all I was doing was shooting long range (600 yards and beyond), I'd probably opt for something in a magnum caliber. Maybe a .300 Win Mag or something along those lines; but then I'd be on my second barrel in the last six months and would probably be living with a perpetually bruised shoulder.
</div></div>
Why a 300win mag for 600 and beyond? I wouldn't switch to a magnum unless I was going to live beyond 1000 yards. The 243 and 308 are fine to 1000
Re: New to long range shooting.
The OP stated that he has a .270 that he uses for elk hunting, and he does not want to destroy the barrel on it by shooting at targets. This new gun is supposed to be a target gun, in which it will perform great. The .308 doesn't have as flat as a trajectory as the .300, but it gets out to 1000 yards quite easily. As stated by JCH I wouldn't get a .300 unless my primary range is 800-1000 yards. So, I would probably put the .308 in the 500-1000yard range and the .300 in the 800-1200yard range if targets were my primary purpose. The .308 is cheaper to shoot, has a longer barrel life, and you won't have a sore shoulder after 30-40 or so rounds.
The OP stated that he has a .270 that he uses for elk hunting, and he does not want to destroy the barrel on it by shooting at targets. This new gun is supposed to be a target gun, in which it will perform great. The .308 doesn't have as flat as a trajectory as the .300, but it gets out to 1000 yards quite easily. As stated by JCH I wouldn't get a .300 unless my primary range is 800-1000 yards. So, I would probably put the .308 in the 500-1000yard range and the .300 in the 800-1200yard range if targets were my primary purpose. The .308 is cheaper to shoot, has a longer barrel life, and you won't have a sore shoulder after 30-40 or so rounds.
Re: New to long range shooting.
I like the sense of humor. But I agree with most of the advice. I also think you could probably put your mind to it and manage doing something that gets you where you want to be without alienating your Dad. Stay on his good side, you just may be needing his help someday.
I think, like most here, that for longer distances, you would do better with a bigger bullet. The .204 is a good varmint round, but it's not going to make you happy much beyond 300yd, which is short range bordering on mid range.
The.308 is fine. I prefer a bit more velocity and lean toward the .30-'06. Recoil will increase, but most find it manageable. For better ballistic efficiency with the '06's case capacity, I'm experimenting with the .280 Rem, which is really just a 7mm-'06. It performs much like a 7mm mag.
Greg
I like the sense of humor. But I agree with most of the advice. I also think you could probably put your mind to it and manage doing something that gets you where you want to be without alienating your Dad. Stay on his good side, you just may be needing his help someday.
I think, like most here, that for longer distances, you would do better with a bigger bullet. The .204 is a good varmint round, but it's not going to make you happy much beyond 300yd, which is short range bordering on mid range.
The.308 is fine. I prefer a bit more velocity and lean toward the .30-'06. Recoil will increase, but most find it manageable. For better ballistic efficiency with the '06's case capacity, I'm experimenting with the .280 Rem, which is really just a 7mm-'06. It performs much like a 7mm mag.
Greg
Re: New to long range shooting.
+1 on the .308 for barrel life for a beginner, cheap ammo and match ammo availability. I really like my .243 SPS-V, but I'm just starting to really creep up the velocity for some long range and the barrel will go in another year or so.
Greg, how are things looking for that .280 Rem? If I build one on a long action, that'd probably be my caliber choice.
+1 on the .308 for barrel life for a beginner, cheap ammo and match ammo availability. I really like my .243 SPS-V, but I'm just starting to really creep up the velocity for some long range and the barrel will go in another year or so.
Greg, how are things looking for that .280 Rem? If I build one on a long action, that'd probably be my caliber choice.
Re: New to long range shooting.
+1 for the 308, a fast twist 223 wouldn't be bad either though. I would get the 308 and show your dad a thing or two. I've set up on many fields where the bubba owners say "theres no way your going to hit that target, my [insert caliber here] magnum will only shoot to 300 yard." They're always pleasantly surprised when they see that peice of steel passed 1000 yards flop on the stand and then here PINGGGG.
243 is a very good LR round with the right bullets but it's a barrel burner. A 204 ruger will be like pissing in the wind passed 400 yards.
+1 for the 308, a fast twist 223 wouldn't be bad either though. I would get the 308 and show your dad a thing or two. I've set up on many fields where the bubba owners say "theres no way your going to hit that target, my [insert caliber here] magnum will only shoot to 300 yard." They're always pleasantly surprised when they see that peice of steel passed 1000 yards flop on the stand and then here PINGGGG.
243 is a very good LR round with the right bullets but it's a barrel burner. A 204 ruger will be like pissing in the wind passed 400 yards.
Re: New to long range shooting.
After looking last night i have over 2000 rounds of once fired .204 ruger brass so i think that im going to buy the .204 VTR then eventually get a mcmillian a-5 and rebarrel to .223 or .223 AI. just for now ill keep my .22-250 for long range and use my .204 for coyotes and praire dogs.
After looking last night i have over 2000 rounds of once fired .204 ruger brass so i think that im going to buy the .204 VTR then eventually get a mcmillian a-5 and rebarrel to .223 or .223 AI. just for now ill keep my .22-250 for long range and use my .204 for coyotes and praire dogs.
Re: New to long range shooting.
The rifles are a pair of factory Ruger MKI's, one with a sporter barrel, and one with a somewhat scarce varmint barrel.
I started with Hornady Superformance 139gr SST loads. The two rifles shot so well, I could have stopped right there.
I then went with Nosler 120gr Hunting Ballistic Tips, Win (nickel) brass, CCI 200's and 56.5gr of H4350. Again, both rifles shot exceptionally well with the load. Negligible pressure signs.
Next tests will start with 150gr Nosler Hunting Ballistic Tips and 55gr of H-4831SC. Per Sierra, their 150's and 56.0gr of H4831 will do 2900-ish. One the charge is settled, I'll try some Fed 210M's.
Overall, accuracy and recoil have been pretty good. My Granddaughter says it's the loudest rifle I have. While it's still early to be making claims, I think it's a good choice. 7mm bullets are getting pretty good lately, and the '06's case capacity seems to be well suited for LR work with this bore diameter.
Just as the .30-'06 would appear to be an outstanding all around cartridge, the .280 would seem to be even better. Still early, but I think I'm backing a winner.
Greg
The rifles are a pair of factory Ruger MKI's, one with a sporter barrel, and one with a somewhat scarce varmint barrel.
I started with Hornady Superformance 139gr SST loads. The two rifles shot so well, I could have stopped right there.
I then went with Nosler 120gr Hunting Ballistic Tips, Win (nickel) brass, CCI 200's and 56.5gr of H4350. Again, both rifles shot exceptionally well with the load. Negligible pressure signs.
Next tests will start with 150gr Nosler Hunting Ballistic Tips and 55gr of H-4831SC. Per Sierra, their 150's and 56.0gr of H4831 will do 2900-ish. One the charge is settled, I'll try some Fed 210M's.
Overall, accuracy and recoil have been pretty good. My Granddaughter says it's the loudest rifle I have. While it's still early to be making claims, I think it's a good choice. 7mm bullets are getting pretty good lately, and the '06's case capacity seems to be well suited for LR work with this bore diameter.
Just as the .30-'06 would appear to be an outstanding all around cartridge, the .280 would seem to be even better. Still early, but I think I'm backing a winner.
Greg
Re: New to long range shooting.
I shoot with a guy that shoots a 204. In match shoots he has to clean up at 100 and 200 yards any further wind is a big factor. But I do understand where you are coming from by what you dad is saying. As I was growing up my dad was 30 Cal. Or nothing.
I shoot with a guy that shoots a 204. In match shoots he has to clean up at 100 and 200 yards any further wind is a big factor. But I do understand where you are coming from by what you dad is saying. As I was growing up my dad was 30 Cal. Or nothing.
Re: New to long range shooting.
I asked the question because i wanted imput, why get a whole new caliber when i have powder and bullets and thousands of rounds of ammunition?
I asked the question because i wanted imput, why get a whole new caliber when i have powder and bullets and thousands of rounds of ammunition?
Re: New to long range shooting.
It will be my money my dad does not buy me anything i have been working for him for minimum wage since i was 12. if i want something i have to buy it.
It will be my money my dad does not buy me anything i have been working for him for minimum wage since i was 12. if i want something i have to buy it.
Re: New to long range shooting.
ok i have officially made up my mind. i am going to get the Rem. 700 sps varmint in .243 then get a rock 22-250 barrel made for it so i can have both, i will be putting it in a mcmillian A5 soon after i get it.
ok i have officially made up my mind. i am going to get the Rem. 700 sps varmint in .243 then get a rock 22-250 barrel made for it so i can have both, i will be putting it in a mcmillian A5 soon after i get it.
