New to the forum, new to rifles, not new to being stupid

[Gruffy]

Also new to forums, but I am getting into precision rifles and a buddy told me this was the best source for info on the planet. My question is if I am being a moron on the configuration of the first rifle I am having built. Rifle specs out:

Stiller tac30 action
Bartlein 5R 1:8 twist heavy varmint profile finished at 28"
Chambered in 6.5 creed
Have no idea yet on stock/chassis, but I like the features of the APO
Best glass I currently have is a bushnell hdmr with mil-dot

Range it will typically be used for is around 800, but potentially with a bushhog, chainsaw, and some sweat equity out to ~1000
I also want to start shooting F class at a local 600 yd range, so it will not have a break.

So again, my question is does this sound like a reasonable set-up for my purposes? My research says yes, but I figure guys who do this for their crust will know better than I.
Also noteworthy, I am a decently experienced reloader and will be loading specifically for it.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

Also new to forums, but I am getting into precision rifles and a buddy told me this was the best source for info on the planet. My question is if I am being a moron on the configuration of the first rifle I am having built. Rifle specs out:

Stiller tac30 action
Bartlein 5R 1:8 twist heavy varmint profile finished at 28"
Chambered in 6.5 creed
Have no idea yet on stock/chassis, but I like the features of the APO
Best glass I currently have is a bushnell hdmr with mil-dot

Range it will typically be used for is around 800, but potentially with a bushhog, chainsaw, and some sweat equity out to ~1000
I also want to start shooting F class at a local 600 yd range, so it will not have a break.

So again, my question is does this sound like a reasonable set-up for my purposes? My research says yes, but I figure guys who do this for their crust will know better than I.
Also noteworthy, I am a decently experienced reloader and will be loading specifically for it.

Welcome to the forum. WE are glad to have you, Especially someone with reloading experience.

I think you are on the right track. The 6.5mm Creedmor is a very good round for the ranges you are talking about. So your caliber choice is right on.

However, I would wonder about the length of your barrel. 28 inches appears to be a lot of barrel for such a fast round. I would recommend something shorter, possibly a 24 inch or if you are adventurous, 20 inches. With distances you are shooting and the caliber you have selected, I would not think that the extra powder velocity efficiency is necessary.

The Bushnell is good glass. I have looked through several and they are nice. They work. But if you want accuracy way out there, which the 6.5 Creedmor is capable of, then maybe upgrade to slightly better glass? The Nightforce line of scopes are high quality for the money and they are definitely supported here.

Good luck with your build and welcome to the sport of long range shooting. You will enjoy it immensely!

 

[strike33]

you might not need something as heavy ass the heavy varmint, but if you're going to be stationary it may not matter. The medium palma or a remington varmint tend to be the choice

 

[308sniper147]

Welcome to the hide!

Sounds like a great set up. That's a long barrel with a 6.5 creed. You could be pushing some major velocity! And as far as stock and chassis goes that's going to be dependent of what you like. My personal opinion with a barrel that long regular stocks look funky. But XLR industries makes there stock with an option for the forearm to be 15.5" in length so that might be something to look into. I have a rock solid chassis and love it but the companies customer service isn't doing well at the moment. Manners and macmillian are ever popular. KRG makes a great lineup. My advice is to try and get behind a few stocks and see what you like but if you can't then you honestly can't go too wrong with something that is fully adjustable.


Sounds like a great scope but I would save up for some next level glass if you shoot at 1000 constantly. Nightforce, USO, S&B, Stiener and so on


EDIT: I also agree that 28" is very long but that it's your desicion as to what you want to lug around lol. But you do want to consider how huge of a case you will have to get along with maybe getting a folding stock to minimize the overall length of the gun during travel and storage.


Regards,
Andrew

 

[Gruffy]

more info

Stiller tac30 action
Bartlein 5R 1:8 twist heavy varmint profile finished at 28"
Chambered in 6.5 creed
Have no idea yet on stock/chassis, but I like the features of the APO
Best glass I currently have is a bushnell hdmr with mil-dot

Also should mention jewell trigger set at 12 ounces with a top safety. I have some 34mm badger ordnance rings I will be using

 

[thrusty]

Those are nice quality parts and caliber for a first build.
The only comment I would make is the barrel length might be a bit long for MY tastes....but, for F-class and general prone/bench shooting it would be perfect.
APO is nice, but don't rule out Manner's stocks with their mini-chassis.

 

[Sgposin]

Stiller tac30 action
Bartlein 5R 1:8 twist heavy varmint profile finished at 28"
Chambered in 6.5 creed
Have no idea yet on stock/chassis, but I like the features of the APO
Best glass I currently have is a bushnell hdmr with mil-dot

Also should mention jewell trigger set at 12 ounces with a top safety. I have some 34mm badger ordnance rings I will be using

That is a very light trigger pull. I like a bit more 1.5-2 lbs. That's just me. I second better glass and shorter barrel. Other then that you are on track for a sweet rig.

 

[colscar]

welcome aboard bro .... set up sounds good but i would also go with a shorter barrel ....

 

[Gruffy]

The reticle of the HD is also a bit thick for my taste at higher magnification. I do a good bit of deer hunting and have noticed that just past the 19x their is a very abrupt degradation in clarity. My financials will probably prevent me from getting new glass for a bit especially after getting a chassis, but I want to upgrade at some point.

 

[Gruffy]

Welcome to the hide!

Sounds like a great set up. That's a long barrel with a 6.5 creed. You could be pushing some major velocity! And as far as stock and chassis goes that's going to be dependent of what you like. My personal opinion with a barrel that long regular stocks look funky. But XLR industries makes there stock with an option for the forearm to be 15.5" in length so that might be something to look into. I have a rock solid chassis and love it but the companies customer service isn't doing well at the moment. Manners and macmillian are ever popular. KRG makes a great lineup. My advice is to try and get behind a few stocks and see what you like but if you can't then you honestly can't go too wrong with something that is fully adjustable.


Sounds like a great scope but I would save up for some next level glass if you shoot at 1000 constantly. Nightforce, USO, S&B, Stiener and so on


EDIT: I also agree that 28" is very long but that it's your desicion as to what you want to lug around lol. But you do want to consider how huge of a case you will have to get along with maybe getting a folding stock to minimize the overall length of the gun during travel and storage.


Regards,
Andrew

What do you think of the McRee chassis?

 

[Gruffy]

The barrel length I have been on the fence about, but I figured I could clock out a little more velocity at a lower pressure and improve barrel life at 28". I am 6' and around 220# and not fat, so I don't mind the haul, but most if not all of its life will be on the bench or prone. If I were to go shorter, would you guys (or gals) go to around 24-26"?

Chassis wise, I also like the Mcree and for the money they look pretty darn tasty. I am not familiar with the Manners mini chassis... I will have to look into this.

 

[Gruffy]

Those are nice quality parts and caliber for a first build.
The only comment I would make is the barrel length might be a bit long for MY tastes....but, for F-class and general prone/bench shooting it would be perfect.
APO is nice, but don't rule out Manner's stocks with their mini-chassis.

Thanks for the turn on to the mini chassis! I had not seen these. As for components, there have been many foot rubs to get the wife on board.... I am not proud. I figured I could cannibalize another 700 or savage I have and go cheaper, but I finally just settled on saving longer and going all out. Like I said, I am not immune from stupidity.

 

[Roddd]

I think a 24" barrel would fit the bill nicely. Hanging out on this forum, you'll hear about guys shooting tactical style matches and attending various training courses and you may find yourself interested in doing so yourself, so the 24" may be your best compromise between that and F Class.

 

[308sniper147]

What do you think of the McRee chassis?

I think it's an EXCELLENT value for the money. A much better value than most, and if you like the looks of it then I would say go for it. The looks of the chassis weren't my taste but that doesn't take away from the value. IMHO it's a much better value than the manners mini chassis with dbm. But some people prefer the ergos of a stock and not a chassis. So I would look hard into the mcrees because it is a lot of bang for your buck.

And I would go atleast 26" if not 24" but I do understand your reasoning of moderate loads for longer barrel life.

 

[BoilerUP]

Rem Varmint or Medium Palma...

 

[Gruffy]

Hanging out on this forum, you'll hear about guys shooting tactical style matches and attending various training courses and you may find yourself interested in doing so yourself, so the 24" may be your best compromise between that and F Class.

Noted... What is the best way to see what goes on in your area? I am in Memphis, TN.

 

[Gruffy]

I think it's an EXCELLENT value for the money. A much better value than most, and if you like the looks of it then I would say go for it. The looks of the chassis weren't my taste but that doesn't take away from the value. IMHO it's a much better value than the manners mini chassis with dbm. But some people prefer the ergos of a stock and not a chassis. So I would look hard into the mcrees because it is a lot of bang for your buck.

I am a performance guy so looks don't bother me. I priced out the manners as I would want it and I am definitely north of 1k, which I wanted to avoid, but would cross for something that was in orders of magnitude better when compared to something like the McRee.

 

[strike33]

check out the rock solid chassis, if you weren't looking for a folder then that would get my vote for a comp gun. the new fixed chassis from Kinetic Research looks promising as well

 

[Gruffy]

Rem Varmint or Medium Palma...

Are these stable in rapid 10 shot strings?

 

[Gruffy]

check out the rock solid chassis, if you weren't looking for a folder then that would get my vote for a comp gun. the new fixed chassis from Kinetic Research looks promising as well

I have not seen either of these. My knowledge was limited to the basic ones, AI, Mcree, Mcmillan, etc.. I just found Eberlstock has one, but holy $$$$ batman!

 

[strike33]

the manners with the mini chassis is such a great option add you can pick the stovk that is most comfortable for you. I have Cadex which is great but I can't say it's worth the money. I also have a Badger M2008 in an AICS and I'm not comfortable behind it. the Manners folder I had was a work of art and I kick myself in the ass everyday for selling that rifle

 

[Gruffy]

you might not need something as heavy ass the heavy varmint, but if you're going to be stationary it may not matter. The medium palma or a remington varmint tend to be the choice

I am thinking I should have probably gone lighter. Bartlein contour data has the heavy varmint at 7.45#, which is 2 to 3 pounds heavier than the others....

 

[308sniper147]

I am a performance guy so looks don't bother me. I priced out the manners as I would want it and I am definitely north of 1k, which I wanted to avoid, but would cross for something that was in orders of magnitude better when compared to something like the McRee.

Then myself personally I would go with mcree, rock solid, or kinetic researches new fixed chassis . Those are good high quality economical stocks with magazine capabilities That will provide great accuracy with little to no bedding.

 

[strike33]

the heavy varmint is a thick stick. with something as easy shooting as a 6.5 you really dont need the extra weight. the tactical matches put rounds down range in av quick manner. most of those guys have moved to the rem varmint/ sendero or a medium palma

 

[strike33]

I personally like an M24 or MTU contour but that is strictly a cosmetic preference. All that extra weight gets me nothing in performance over the rem and palms

 

[OneShotJim]

More info on chassis for you - here's a link to the "Complete Chassis Reference Guide" thread here on the Hide:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...hassis-reference-guide-pics-prices-links.html

I have a McRee for my 6.5 CM and really like it.

 

[Gruffy]

Then myself personally I would go with mcree, rock solid, or kinetic researches new fixed chassis . Those are good high quality economical stocks with magazine capabilities That will provide great accuracy with little to no bedding.

Is the kinetic researches the whiskey 3?

 

[Gruffy]

I personally like an M24 or MTU contour but that is strictly a cosmetic preference. All that extra weight gets me nothing in performance over the rem and palms

I am a pretty big guy so I don't think the weight will bother me. The balance might be a bit goofy.

 

[Gruffy]

More info on chassis for you - here's a link to the "Complete Chassis Reference Guide" thread here on the Hide:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...hassis-reference-guide-pics-prices-links.html

I have a McRee for my 6.5 CM and really like it.

Thank you for the link! How do you like your CM? I have shot a buddies savage in 6.5 and was really impressed. It seemed to be a really good mix of performance/maintenance.

 

[Gruffy]

The ax aics looks nice, and it seems you could get the bipod out farther.

 

[strike33]

Is the kinetic researches the whiskey 3?

the whiskey 3 is their top tier chassis.
they are releasing their new one after SHOT. seems like alot of features for the price

 

[Gruffy]

the whiskey 3 is their top tier chassis.
they are releasing their new one after SHOT. seems like alot of features for the price

Found their marketing. I may just pull the trigger on the McRee. I am going to Cerakote the rifle in Mcmillan tan. Might look good/be durable in an olive chassis. Also will fit my part of the worlds colors in hunting.

 

[OneShotJim]

You're welcome Gruffy. My 6.5 Creedmoor shoots great. Here's a link with more info on my setup and to some of my range results.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...58219-6-5-creedmoor-w-140amax-hand-loads.html

I've also shot it out to 1000yd w/excellent results (no pictures due to lots of hits from other shooters on those targets).

 

[Gruffy]

You're welcome Gruffy. My 6.5 Creedmoor shoots great. Here's a link with more info on my setup and to some of my range results.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...58219-6-5-creedmoor-w-140amax-hand-loads.html

I've also shot it too 1000yd w/excellent results (no pictures due to lots of hits from other shooters on those targets).

Nice rifle! Mine my wind up looking freakishly similar to that sans the break. What glass are you running?

 

[OneShotJim]

Weaver Tactical 4-20x50mm scope. Thanks.

 

[Gruffy]

I would like to thank everyone for the information, and I am probably going to cut the barrel down to 24" The profile I am stuck with, as I already bought the blank and patience is not a particularly powerful virtue of mine.

 

[308sniper147]

I would like to thank everyone for the information, and I am probably going to cut the barrel down to 24" The profile I am stuck with, as I already bought the blank and patience is not a particularly powerful virtue of mine.

I'm sure this gun will be great with whatever chassis you go with!
Goodluck with the build and definately let us know how it turns out !

 

[Sniper Uncle]

If you all ready bought the blank, go long, and see whether you like it. It can be cut and crowned later if you decide it's too long.
I built a 338LM with a 34" barrel, many say it's too long, but I can use slower powders, get high velocities, and I like it----it is MINE, after all, not someone else's.

 

[dreiaugen]

I might be a contrarian but you're new to rifles and you're jumping into long-range precision rifles AND reloading for rifle calibers...that is a lot to take on all at once. It might make sense to consider focusing on one thing at a time, like first learning the fundamentals with a good basic setup like a 700 Varmint or 5R. By the time you master that you'll know exactly what you want in terms of rifle platform and caliber.

 

[ratrod54]

+1 on the Manners. You may creep up on price but you wont regret it. The T4A I got about three months ago is fantastic. I do not have the option for the chassis as I shoot a savage.

I also shoot 20" heavy barrel and have had no issues out to 600yds. I do not have a place just yet to shoot farther so I am of no help beyond that. It is a chore to tote the thing around but if your saying your primary purpose is prone and from a bench, I cant see that being a problem. You can always flute the barrel to trim a little fat too.

Sounds like a fun build!

 

[The Gump]

Also new to forums, but I am getting into precision rifles and a buddy told me this was the best source for info on the planet. My question is if I am being a moron on the configuration of the first rifle I am having built. Rifle specs out:

Stiller tac30 action
Bartlein 5R 1:8 twist heavy varmint profile finished at 28"
Chambered in 6.5 creed
Have no idea yet on stock/chassis, but I like the features of the APO
Best glass I currently have is a bushnell hdmr with mil-dot

Range it will typically be used for is around 800, but potentially with a bushhog, chainsaw, and some sweat equity out to ~1000
I also want to start shooting F class at a local 600 yd range, so it will not have a break.

So again, my question is does this sound like a reasonable set-up for my purposes? My research says yes, but I figure guys who do this for their crust will know better than I.
Also noteworthy, I am a decently experienced reloader and will be loading specifically for it.

I don't think I would run much over a 24" on a 6.5cm and a PSS contour. Manners makes good stocks. Don't think I would run the mini chassis again. I would opt for the G2 reticle. I don't think I would mess with a factory Remington. You will realize it's full potential quickly and get bored. Reloading isn't rocket science. Just follow the data and use basic common sense.

 

[Gruffy]

I don't think I would run much over a 24" on a 6.5cm and a PSS contour. Manners makes good stocks. Don't think I would run the mini chassis again. I would opt for the G2 reticle. I don't think I would mess with a factory Remington. You will realize it's full potential quickly and get bored. Reloading isn't rocket science. Just follow the data and use basic common sense.

Given the input I have gotten here, I most likely will be cutting down to 24". What I am on the fence about is losing the ability to get a bit more velocity with lower pressure and less wear and tear, but my gains will probably be marginal which is why I will probably heed the advice I am getting. I am a math guy so I have to research if there is a formula that works out your gains/losses when compared to pressure. I have heard generic terms of 25-50 fps per inch at an equivalent pressure, but have not researched this enough to substantiate this claim. I have a buddy who shoots comps with a .280 and a 30" barrel for the same reasons I have stated, but these are not tactical comps that involve re-positioning, etc. I have a Remington 700 LRT in 308 I hunt and shoot with, but it likes the accubonds I use to be .022 of the lands and I can only load them to .142 and still get them to fit in the friggin mag. At .022 it shoots 3/4" to 1/2". at .142 it shoots around 1 to 1 1/2". That rifle only has 150 down the pipe so it may settle in some more as the round count continues. I thought about just having it barreled to get my 6.5 creed, but after I looked into the cost of having the action trued, bolt handle install, barrel, etc, my total cost was not significantly different.... I thought. This project has sprawled a bit, so my total cost is now significantly higher, but I did not know exactly what I was getting into 7 months ago. I had the option to get the G2 reticle, but for the shooting I do and the target shooting I have done I am not a fan of the xmas tree reticles. If I were shooting tactical competitions, from what I read last night, I might sing a different tune. Reloading is not rocket science, I agree. I like it because I am analytic by nature and can get properly anal. I really want a Giraud trimmer and annealer.....

 

[Gruffy]

If you all ready bought the blank, go long, and see whether you like it. It can be cut and crowned later if you decide it's too long.
I built a 338LM with a 34" barrel, many say it's too long, but I can use slower powders, get high velocities, and I like it----it is MINE, after all, not someone else's.

This has been my thought process. I have been second guessing based off of info here. I would like to see that rifle!

 

[Gruffy]

I might be a contrarian but you're new to rifles and you're jumping into long-range precision rifles AND reloading for rifle calibers...that is a lot to take on all at once. It might make sense to consider focusing on one thing at a time, like first learning the fundamentals with a good basic setup like a 700 Varmint or 5R. By the time you master that you'll know exactly what you want in terms of rifle platform and caliber.

I have been reloading for rifle calibers for some time ~7 years. I would say I am new to precision rifles, but not rifle shooting, in general. I have used various factory rifles for targets, etc. and am confidently deer lethal to 400yds with my 308. I am lethal beyond that, but not ethically so. I am not some great rifleman nor do I claim to be, but I have the basic skill-set/understanding. Skeletal support, breathing techniques, rifle mount, magnified optic use, etc. My title should have been more clear and stated "new to precision rifles." Caliber selection I am sure on and have done extensive research on, etc., but with the various marketing claims and literature available on barrel length vs velocity vs pressure vs throat erosion I wanted to consult what I had heard to be a very outstanding website for information. I want to use a chassis and have shot a friends jp enterprises and was impressed, but had not done my due diligence before coming to the hide on what is even out there. I should have elaborated more on my background and I respect you for your contrariness given the information presented.

 

[Gruffy]

my productivity at work has slipped after coming to this site..... what a wealth of info

 

[Gruffy]

Manners makes good stocks. Don't think I would run the mini chassis again.

Is there any reason you would not run it again in particular?

 

[The Gump]

Given the input I have gotten here, I most likely will be cutting down to 24". What I am on the fence about is losing the ability to get a bit more velocity with lower pressure and less wear and tear, but my gains will probably be marginal which is why I will probably heed the advice I am getting. I am a math guy so I have to research if there is a formula that works out your gains/losses when compared to pressure. I have heard generic terms of 25-50 fps per inch at an equivalent pressure, but have not researched this enough to substantiate this claim. I have a buddy who shoots comps with a .280 and a 30" barrel for the same reasons I have stated, but these are not tactical comps that involve re-positioning, etc. I have a Remington 700 LRT in 308 I hunt and shoot with, but it likes the accubonds I use to be .022 of the lands and I can only load them to .142 and still get them to fit in the friggin mag. At .022 it shoots 3/4" to 1/2". at .142 it shoots around 1 to 1 1/2". That rifle only has 150 down the pipe so it may settle in some more as the round count continues. I thought about just having it barreled to get my 6.5 creed, but after I looked into the cost of having the action trued, bolt handle install, barrel, etc, my total cost was not significantly different.... I thought. This project has sprawled a bit, so my total cost is now significantly higher, but I did not know exactly what I was getting into 7 months ago. I had the option to get the G2 reticle, but for the shooting I do and the target shooting I have done I am not a fan of the xmas tree reticles. If I were shooting tactical competitions, from what I read last night, I might sing a different tune. Reloading is not rocket science, I agree. I like it because I am analytic by nature and can get properly anal. I really want a Giraud trimmer and annealer.....

I had a 24" bartlien chambered in .260. New the barrel with 44.5gr of H4350 and a 140 AMAX got me 2850fps with pressure signs. 3K rounds later it goes 2735fps with the same load and zero pressure.

 

[The Gump]

Is there any reason you would not run it again in particular?

The following is all in my opinion:

A properly done bed job will always be superior in that it does not introduce tension into the barreled action unless the lug and rear tang area of the chassis are bedded.

With a properly done bed job the show line will go all the way to the action for a cleaner overall finish.

Less weight than a bed job.

Bed job costs the same as a mini chassis.

Chix dig bed jobs.

One nice thing about chassis is you can swap the barreled action.

 

[Gruffy]

I had a 24" bartlien chambered in .260. New the barrel with 44.5gr of H4350 and a 140 AMAX got me 2850fps with pressure signs. 3K rounds later it goes 2735fps with the same load and zero pressure.

Got it. Is there a formula that accurately expresses velocity if you increased your barrel length at its original configuration? My current obsession with velocity is probably negligible after watching a video with low light shooting 1k with an 18", but I want to retain enough energy at 800-1000 to be ethically deer lethal, as that is my end goal after I build the rifle and increase my skill.

 

[BoilerUP]

I want to retain enough energy at 800-1000 to be ethically deer lethal, as that is my end goal after I build the rifle and increase my skill.

IMO: bullet design, ie. expansion, trumps energy. I'd be more concerned with having enough velocity for proper bullet expansion at those ranges than anything else.