I'm a newb to reloading, just built a 6.5 Creedmoor gasser with a Bartlein. I want to get the most out of it possible. Just curious what die set I need for this set-up.
Newb 6.5 Creed dies
- Thread starter smvmarine
- Start date
Since you are shooting a gas gun i would recommend the forster FL sizing die with the expander ball. Its the only sizing die i use for my accuracy guns. I do use an rcbs fl sizing die for my 5.56 that just plinks steel. Either way you will for sure want a FL sizing die since your shooting a gas gun, set it up for around .003" neck tension so you wont have to crimp, and set your die up where your bumping the shoulder back .004"-.005" so it will chamber reliably. For a seating die i also recommend the forster bench rest seating die. That is the only seating die i use and it is super consistent. Almost all of the ammo i load only has .001"-.002" TIR.
Hope not to highjack this too much but which size are Forster dies 1-1/4" or 1-1/2"? Can't find this anywhere else...and also is custom neck honing option for the sizing die a must, since we are supposed to choose thicker brass for gas guns?
No, if you're buying these from somewhere other than Forster just run them as they come. The expander ball should be set up to run them just fine and depending on your brass thickness it can vary but the factory ball should leave you with 1-2 thousandths depending on spring back. Until you figure out what exactly you want to do to tailor your loads to yourself that specifically go with the configuration the manufacturer provides them in.
But to addesss another part of your issue, raising or lowering the expander ball which is on the center spindle of the sizing die, yes, will not vary the amount that it reduces the neck by. The way to change that is to change the expander ball itself to something of a different size, smaller or larger, to adjust the diameter it pulls the case neck out to as it's drawn back through on the removal from the die. The ball goes down into the case through a fired neck freely, the cases squeezes the neck smaller as you push the case all the way up into the die and then as the case is extracted from the die the neck now has to get squeezed back open for the ball to be removed. The diameter of the ball controlls how far open the neck gets squeezed and thus your sized case dimension. But screwing it in or out won't alter those results and the directions will tell you where exactly to screw it into. The ball should be in line with the peep hole.
But to addesss another part of your issue, raising or lowering the expander ball which is on the center spindle of the sizing die, yes, will not vary the amount that it reduces the neck by. The way to change that is to change the expander ball itself to something of a different size, smaller or larger, to adjust the diameter it pulls the case neck out to as it's drawn back through on the removal from the die. The ball goes down into the case through a fired neck freely, the cases squeezes the neck smaller as you push the case all the way up into the die and then as the case is extracted from the die the neck now has to get squeezed back open for the ball to be removed. The diameter of the ball controlls how far open the neck gets squeezed and thus your sized case dimension. But screwing it in or out won't alter those results and the directions will tell you where exactly to screw it into. The ball should be in line with the peep hole.
Yep what is posted above is correct. I would not alter the neck tension that the die will produce from the factory until you get them and set them up. Load some rounds with them and see what kind if neck tension they are giving you. I have taken a red scotch brite pad with polishing compound and put the expander ball in a drill and polish it some to give me a little more neck tension. In all honesty my gas gun loads get a mild crimp with a lee factoy crimp die. I havent ever noticed a big enough variation in accuracy to not crimp them either.
thanks guys, appreciated. I am waiting for my gunsmith to complete a BA 18" 6.5 cm 1/8 gasser which I haven't find many recipes for yet, will be fun to find the right one
Shall we say then that Forster FL is functionally equivalent to a SB die as reliability is the first concern while reloading for a gasser?
I answer myself after some hands on. Forster FL are 100% gtg, to achieve optimal neck tension for gassers I use Redding type S neck sizing die after the Forster FL with .287 bushing for Hornady brass and .288 for Peterson. No need to crimp after seating at all. I will never learn how to use a crimp die properly...
You do realize that your Forster FL sizing die is already sizing the neck properly giving you .002 neck tension??
if your sizing it in another neck die with expander after your sizing the neck twice causing excessive wear on your brass...
if your sizing it in another neck die with expander after your sizing the neck twice causing excessive wear on your brass...
Here is an active thread asking the same question, might give you some additional info...
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...t-getting-into-reloading-6-5-creed-which-dies
...and some more...
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...6415976-6-5-creedmoor-die-set-recommendations
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...r-dies-for-a-beginner-with-lee-challenger-kit
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ies-vs-hornady-match-grade-new-dimension-dies
I mostly use Redding Type-S bushing and Forster FL dies. I don't use an expander ball in either set. When setting up the FL die, I treat it the same way I would a bushing style die. Seat a bullet, measure the neck, subtract .001-.002", and have Forster hone the neck potion of the die to that dimension.
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...t-getting-into-reloading-6-5-creed-which-dies
...and some more...
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...6415976-6-5-creedmoor-die-set-recommendations
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...r-dies-for-a-beginner-with-lee-challenger-kit
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ies-vs-hornady-match-grade-new-dimension-dies
I mostly use Redding Type-S bushing and Forster FL dies. I don't use an expander ball in either set. When setting up the FL die, I treat it the same way I would a bushing style die. Seat a bullet, measure the neck, subtract .001-.002", and have Forster hone the neck potion of the die to that dimension.
I was somehow expecting this. Thanks for the heads up first of all. I fully see your point. I had some inconsistencies with hornady brass not having the right tension with just one round of Forster FL and no crimping. All is fine with Peterson's. So I thought that a second sizing stage with a neck die could be preferable instead of a crimp... and also more tunable by using the right bushing according to brass actual thickness. Am I mistaken?
How did you know that Hornady brass was not giving you consistent neck tension?
I wonder how many people realize that the only 100% direct measurement of neck tension is to use an ID micrometer to measure the case neck inside diameter and subtract that measurement from the bullet's full diameter.
The typical method (measuring external neck diameter of a loaded cartridge) and subtracting your desired interference fit (aka neck tension) is an approximation unless you are absolutely sure that your neck thickness is 100% uniform.
With virgin Hornady brass?? Or Hornady brass that was fired in your rifle then you sized it? Virgin brass always has inconsistent neck tension, including lapua. That is why we all fireform it to our chamber then start proper load development with 1x brass that has been properly sized to our liking.
I own Forster dies in pretty much every caliber out there. Every one provides exactly .002 neck tension with expander ball. I have also never in my life had a need to crimp brass for 5.56, .308 or 6.5cm semi auto rounds. Some do, I have never had a need with Forster FL sizing dies.. Your just reducing the life of your brass double sizing it each time and probably inducing runout at the same time.
I felt it while seating the bullets. I did't have the ID micrometer by then and learned what you said the hard way
the lot was made of once fired hornady brass coming from factory ammo (eld-m, gmx). With once fired Hornady brass, perfect. Even virgin Hornady ones, piece of cake. Factory loads might be a bit too hot for my rig that's the only reason I give myself. Thank you all.
bolt or gasser? I’ve heard you can run into issues with dented case mouths when not using the expander ball. Anyone with experience? I don’t have a type s but I got one on the way.
Bolt Gun--no dents--you should at least try it. FWIW, I load my 223 AR ammo with a Dillon Carbide FL die, expander ball LEFT IN. Different techniques for different applications.
